Enough. Reform the lounge already

[Fjones]

It was a post with name calling and sarcasm and no other content that I can perceive.
If I explain my reservations about your lack of social skills there would be content, if I call you a social retard its name calling aka an ad hominem.

Yes. And In this thread I have discussed the failures of the lounge moderators.

So what is the problem? Are you saying I was not thorough or descriptive enough? Are you saying it is never acceptable to say that someone failed? After everythign that is ALLOWED in the lounge, you are really getting on my case for saying someone failed? What a joke.

I'll try that at work sometime.

Boss -- "FJones, you failed in your duties"

Me -- "Oh, an Ad Hominum attack eh?"

 

[Pillthrill]

Fjones, there is no winning. They will keep their stupid lounge. Hopefully some
off topic" non-trolling, mehm threads such as pic threads will stay free of that and other shit.

 

[Fjones]

You want to know where I stand?

I'm here in the middle of a bunch of pissed off staff that are trying to get things straightened out with the forum and you starting this thread to cry about how it is useless and pointless.

It is an "off-topic" forum for a reason. That is why it exists. If it did not exist, than threads in every other forum on this site would be taken off topic by side conversations. If you want something to change, change it yourself. Because from where I sit, there are hundreds of different people showing up there week after week, going to see their friends and crack jokes that new people to the club might not understand.

Is some of it crass? Yes. Does some of it go too far? Yes. However, there are currently four men assigned to filtering that content. Have you seen how many posts the lounge gets in a day? 1000's. Were you there to help direct the forum when it was growing up? Have you tried to add worthwhile content to the forum without turning it into an argument when someone disagrees with you? Have you even given money to help keep the site alive?

From my perspective, you are just an armchair quarterback sitting in your home pointing out all of the things that have gone wrong that need to be fixed. You have no intention of trying to do anything to fix them yourself. You are being selfish.

I took that position this past October. Just like with our new president in the US, it takes time for things to change and get better. Until you start doing something beyond complaining about it, then you have no room to complain about it.

If you don't like what's on, then change the channel.

Fair enough. I appreciate that you elaborated on your thoughts. And I think you make some good points.

Why not just make these good points in the first place? It sounds as though some of the staff and admins DO want to improve the lounge and clean up some of the garbage.

You could have responded initially by saying, "FJones, the mods and staff are examining and discussing this very issue as we speak."

Instead you made a snide one liner, which I got annoyed with because I was trying to have a serious discussion.


I know I lack tact and I can be abrasive. I am working on that aspect my my personality but I cannot fix it overnight any more than anyone else can magically fix their flaws overnight.

I don't understand the "two wrongs make a right" mentality though -- it seems that when I display a lack of tact and write an abrasive post, people sometimes respond by adding gasoline to the fire. What is the point of that?



I can see that moderating the lounge is a thankless task that muct be a nightmare. I don't envy you or the other three. I apologize for being dismissive of your work. That was wrong of me.

 

[Jabberwocky]

Yes. And In this thread I have discussed the failures of the lounge moderators.

So what is the problem? Are you saying I was not thorough or descriptive enough? Are you saying it is never acceptable to say that someone failed? After everythign that is ALLOWED in the lounge, you are really getting on my case for saying someone failed? What a joke.

I'll try that at work sometime.

Boss -- "FJones, you failed in your duties"

Me -- "Oh, an Ad Hominum attack eh?"

My question is what did your post add to the discussion? Post #5? If it was a post about you my expectation is that you would cry foul. I'm not in my usual mode of dialogue I'm exposing a nitpicker to nitpicks and he responds with nitpicks. If the choice was between this whole site becoming the lounge or this whole site becoming Fjones style rhetoric I'd most certainly go with the lounge.

 

[Fjones]

Fjones, there is no winning. They will keep their stupid lounge. Hopefully some
off topic" non-trolling, mehm threads such as pic threads will stay free of that and other shit.

I think the lounge has SOME value, and can have even more. Some of the threads are fun and funny.

My point (which I think is being lost) is, we can have fun and funny threads without having people treat people like assholes.

"OFF-TOPIC" does NOT mean "Be an asshole and be nasty to each other."

 

[Fjones]

My question is what did your post add to the discussion? Post #5? If it was a post about you my expectation is that you would cry foul. I'm not in my usual mode of dialogue I'm exposing a nitpicker to nitpicks and he responds with nitpicks. If the choice was between this whole site becoming the lounge or this whole site becoming Fjones style rhetoric I'd most certainly go with the lounge.

What was the point my post number 5? None. There was no point to post number 4 or number 5. They were both pointless. The difference is, I know that I engage in petty disagreements sometimes. I have a bad habit of reacting to the things people say when they are best left ignored.

The difference is, I don't pretend otherwise. Other people act the same way and blame the entire argument on me. Well, it takes two. I would say that post 4 instigated post 5. Does that justify my post 5? No. But I am also not a moderator nor will I ever be. If I were, I would not expect people to be okay with my making posts like number 4.

 

[Max Power]

Seriously, it's the internet. Fucking relax. Go make some friends IRL. Get a hobby.

And if you object to murder and child molestation, just look in a different direction? What the fuck?

Sometimes, I can't believe you're serious. At least I knew CG was trolling. You actually believe the arguments you try and start.

Turning a blind eye to the banter that occurs on an online message board has absolutely no correlation between child molestation and murder.

holy fuck.

 

[Fjones]

My question is what did your post add to the discussion? Post #5? If it was a post about you my expectation is that you would cry foul. I'm not in my usual mode of dialogue I'm exposing a nitpicker to nitpicks and he responds with nitpicks. If the choice was between this whole site becoming the lounge or this whole site becoming Fjones style rhetoric I'd most certainly go with the lounge.

Well, people don't like logic. It scares them. They do not like it when their emotional, factless, and irrational argument can be refuted by cold hard logic.

It is because people shun and mock the use of logic that politicians are so easily able to fool the majority of the public. People cannot see through their bullshit and lies because they don't understand the basics of logic.

People don't like logic because they don't like being outsmarted. They don't like being painted into a corner when their flimsy argument unravels. But instead of learning how to make better arguments, they mock the use of logic and ridicule the user.

How does that benefit anyone?

 

[Fjones]

Seriously, it's the internet. Fucking relax. Go make some friends IRL. Get a hobby.



Sometimes, I can't believe you're serious. At least I knew CG was trolling. You actually believe the arguments you try and start.

Turning a blind eye to the banter that occurs on an online message board has absolutely no correlation between child molestation and murder.

holy fuck.

You obviously do not know what the word correlation means.

It was an ANALOGY. I never said there was a correlation.

People are not very good at understanding analogies either, unfortunately. Do they teach anything in schools these days?

 

[comador]

It may of been an alnalogy, but it was a shit one. You cant compare some trolling to child molestation and murder. why so serious?!

 

[Fjones]

Seriously, it's the internet. Fucking relax. Go make some friends IRL. Get a hobby.



Sometimes, I can't believe you're serious. At least I knew CG was trolling. You actually believe the arguments you try and start.

Turning a blind eye to the banter that occurs on an online message board has absolutely no correlation between child molestation and murder.

holy fuck.

Also, you don't know me so don't act like you do. I have more friends "IRL" than most, and far more hobbies than most. I could easily crush you at many of the numerous hobbies I enjoy.

Just because I debate on a forum does not mean I don't have friends or hobbies. That you would say that just how lame your level of thinking is. I might take issue with a lot of things that people say here, but I can respond a bit more intelligently than "Go find some friends or hobbies," because I am smart enough not to presume a person lacks either of those.

 

[Fjones]

It may of been an alnalogy, but it was a shit one. You cant compare some trolling to child molestation and murder. why so serious?!

You also do not seem to understand analogies.

Why am I bothering to debate analogies with people here? I TEACH S.A.T. classes, which used to have analogies on them. I know how analogies work. The general public, sadly, has little understanding of them, which is why I was able to make good money teaching them.

I never equated the doings in the lounge with murder and child molestation. I used an extreme example to POINT OUT THAT we shouldn't simply ignore things that are broken and causing problems.

 

[Jabberwocky]

I've been over reacting in this thread and I've gotten sort of personal which is not a good way to react to member feedback. Thank you for your feedback. Not as an excuse but as an explanation the first post seemed very hostile and uncivil to me. I should have left the computer for a while before posting.

Honestly, not argument for arguments sake, I sense an authentic message in post #4. Similar messages are in slogans like "Bothered by abortion, then don't have one." "Opposed to pornography, don't buy any." Its another way of saying that the lounge isn't compulsory and if you don't get it or you don't like it, Oh well.

Please keep in mind that no part of Bluelight is going to please everybody.

 

[Fjones]

I've been over reacting in this thread and I've gotten sort of personal which is not a good way to react to member feedback. Thank you for your feedback. Not as an excuse but as an explanation the first post seemed very hostile and uncivil to me. I should have left the computer for a while before posting.

Honestly, not argument for arguments sake, I sense an authentic message in post #4. Similar messages are in slogans like "Bothered by abortion, then don't have one." "Opposed to pornography, don't buy any." Its another way of saying that the lounge isn't compulsory and if you don't get it or you don't like it, Oh well.

Please keep in mind that no part of Bluelight is going to please everybody.

You make a fair point. My initial post was one that I wrote out of my annoyance for the lounge when I was esepcially annoyed about the lounge for a specific reason or two. I probably should have waited to write the post until later.

I never set out to make personal attacks or start fights. I just seem to fall into them for various reasons. I am not good at de-escalating.

It sounds like the staff IS working on improving the lounge and tightening up moderation, and that pleases me. I appreciate whatever efforts have been taken. Overall I think this is a great site and I want to see it stay that way.

Perhaps we should close this thread.

 

[That_Guy]

You also do not seem to understand analogies.

Why am I bothering to debate analogies with people here? I TEACH S.A.T. classes, which used to have analogies on them. I know how analogies work. The general public, sadly, has little understanding of them, which is why I was able to make good money teaching them.

I never equated the doings in the lounge with murder and child molestation. I used an extreme example to POINT OUT THAT we shouldn't simply ignore things that are broken and causing problems.

No, your analogy had no relationship to the content of this overall discussion.

Looking away from actual crimes being committed has no relationship to looking away from words on a screen. They are not analogous. For them to be analogous, the principle action and result of one would need to be comparable to the principle action and result of the other. If you look away from a forum on the internet, then no person has been physically harmed. If a person looks away from the commission of a murder, then someone has been physically harmed. You are comparing Playboy and snuff films.

Your logic is flawed, thereby nullifying your argument. You may teach SAT prep, but you already have the answers in front of you. The SAT does not require creative thinking. Everything is dry and straightforward.

Also, you never help your case by responding

I have more friends "IRL" than most, and far more hobbies than most. I could easily crush you at many of the numerous hobbies I enjoy.

This does not lend others to sympathize with your position or believe your claims. Use this as a comparison:

A:"You are stupid."
B:"No I'm not. I'm smarter than you."

How will person A respond? Will person A typically believe person B on the face of their contention that they are in fact more intelligent, or does it beg further argument? Had you responded, for example, "I am an accomplished violinist," then no one would question any further. However, with a response claiming that you will "crush" others at various nameless hobbies, it sounds as though you are boasting as a defense mechanism. Such a defense mechanism reveals further weakness that can and will be exploited in the lounge in particular, but elsewhere as well.

 

[Fjones]

No, your analogy had no relationship to the content of this overall discussion.

Looking away from actual crimes being committed has no relationship to looking away from words on a screen. They are not analogous. For them to be analogous, the principle action and result of one would need to be comparable to the principle action and result of the other. If you look away from a forum on the internet, then no person has been physically harmed. If a person looks away from the commission of a murder, then someone has been physically harmed. You are comparing Playboy and snuff films.

Your logic is flawed, thereby nullifying your argument. You may teach SAT prep, but you already have the answers in front of you. The SAT does not require creative thinking. Everything is dry and straightforward.

Also, you never help your case by responding This does not lend others to sympathize with your position or believe your claims. Use this as a comparison:

A:"You are stupid."
B:"No I'm not. I'm smarter than you."

How will person A respond? Will person A typically believe person B on the face of their contention that they are in fact more intelligent, or does it beg further argument? Had you responded, for example, "I am an accomplished violinist," then no one would question any further. However, with a response claiming that you will "crush" others at various nameless hobbies, it sounds as though you are boasting as a defense mechanism. Such a defense mechanism reveals further weakness that can and will be exploited in the lounge in particular, but elsewhere as well.

I don't know what to tell you. If I wanted to reveal my real name, I could post links to a site that shows that I am a two time national champion at something that is played by people all over the world. But I don't see why I need to reveal personal information about myself.

If some person wants to be a jerk and say that I have no hobbies and no friends, I invite him to come visit me and A) meet my friends or B) come challenge me in any of 15 or 20 different hobbies, most of which I would likely crush him in.

I don't really know what else to say.

By the way, the reason I was chosen to teach SAT classes is that I was able to ace the questions WITHOUT the answers in front me. You are a smart guy so I assume you know that they don't just hire some fool who can read answers from a book right? Or am I giving you too much credit? I guess I am, because you implied that to be the case.

My analogy was valid. I'll slow it down for you since you seem to be struggling.

I said, originally (paraphrasing here), "The lounge has a lot of problems. It has run amok and people are treating each other like shit and it is causing problems."

You said, "If you don't like it, turn the channel."

I then made my supposedly flawed analogy.

Here is the deal. When you said, "If you don't like it, turn the channel," you were saying "If you have a problem with something, ignore it instead of trying to fix it."

My ANALOGY then pointed out the flaw in your response, that is, we cannot simply ignore things that are broken, because SOME things (like Murder, child molestation) are too serious to ignore, so we must fix the problem.

In other words, you cannot just say, as a general philosophy, "If you have a problem with something, ignore it." You would only say that about something unimportant.

So by saying that about my thread, all you were REALLY SAYING IS, "Shut up, your issue isn't important."

If that is how you feel, just say that, don't spout a hackneyed cliché.

So really, you just chose poor words. Instead of saying, "It you don't like it, change the channel," you could have said, "Yeah the lounge has problems but they aren't important enough to bother with so who cares?"

But if that is the case, why is there so much talk about it? Why are so many warnings and temp bans issued?


Anything WORTH FIXING, should be fixed, and anything NOT worth fixing, should be DISCARDED.

THAT is why I objected to your statement and why I made the analogy I did.

 

[Rogue Robot]

If you have an issue with the lounge, there are more ways to go about making changes in the lounge rather than complaining in SUPPORT.

If you don't like it, fine. Either don't post or make worthwhile posts in there in hopes that people will follow suit. I know I tease alasdairm () when I repeat this, but he is absolutely right in saying 'be the change...'. I have taken Ali's words and thought about them in nearly every forum in which I post, and maybe you should do the same.

 

[Fjones]

I was actually unsure about which forum to post in so I put it in homeless in the hopes that it would be moved to the best location.

I cannot "be the change" in the lounge. They don't like me in the lounge. my best bet is to avoid the lounge, which I do, except for the picture threads and some polls.

 

[Fjones]

Also, for what it's worth, my threads and posts do seem to generate a lot of discussion. I'd rather be controversial than boring. If so many people don't like me why do they waste their energy responding to my posts?

 

[That_Guy]

Here is the deal. When you said, "If you don't like it, turn the channel," you were saying "If you have a problem with something, ignore it instead of trying to fix it."

My ANALOGY then pointed out the flaw in your response, that is, we cannot simply ignore things that are broken, because SOME things (like Murder, child molestation) are too serious to ignore, so we must fix the problem.

No, a problem is the poor state of public education. A problem is your car making a terrible noise. Individual life-changing (or ending) events are not problems. They are tragedies. One person using a racial slur to name-call someone else is a problem. It is not a life-ending tragedy.

Why are you so passive-aggressive in your answers? It is unbecoming of someone that holds themselves above us ignorant rabble to try to claim fair statements when they come in the form of sarcastic, dismissive quips about your perception of the other's intelligence. (This is an obvious demonstration of passive aggression)

If you notice, I have asked questions about your participation in the funding of this site and asked you to change the things that you see as broken. I did not name call and I did not try to paint myself as anything. I did not tell anything, I showed it. Please, before pointing out the speck in my eye, remove the plank from yours.