opiate questions; honeymoon stage, continued usage, withdrawals

[Le Junk]

I recently quit using cocaine after a 20 + year stint, but near the end of my career, I unfortunately picked up another nasty habit, opiates. For those familiar with real cocaine, I think you'll find the similarities indisputable.

Anyway, I started using opiates about 2 1/2 years ago and have ever since. At first, they were great for hangovers and then the inevitable everyday thingy took over. At first, I was using only 10-20 mg.s a day of the 10/325 norco's. It should be noted that I only get euphoria and good feelings from hydrocodone and feel like absolute crap from oxycodone (thank God!). There have actually been times when I quit using alltogether for up to a week or so at a time, but that's been probably almost a year since I've done that. Unfortunately, they're now a part of my everyday life. I always get a genuine high from my 10/325's (yellow Vantage brand), but am now, for the very first time, starting to experience withdrawal symptoms in the morning. For the first time about 3 months ago, I've noticed that I feel very sore and lathargic upon waking, but can seem to bypass those feelings by simply getting up and moving around. I've yet to try and see how far I can go without feeling bad again before finally having to take my first pill of the day, but I am a bit curious. The minimum amount I take per day is 30 mg.s and the max is 40 mg.s. I know, I'm a cheap date, but I couldn't be happier with that fact. I have friends who take 150 mg.s a day and that simply makes me cringe at the thought. My very noticable light withdrawal symptoms are RLS, which I know is a very common symptom.

So my questions are these;

Am I in the initial stages of heavy opiate addiction and withdrawals?

Is this the time to start tapering off, and if so, at what schedule per day?

How long would the withdrawal symptoms last for someone with my low tolerance level?

Is this a drug with a high relapse rate?

How long will it take for my brain to return to pre-opiate status?

Thanks in advance, Le Junk

 

[gethigh]

So my questions are these;

Am I in the initial stages of heavy opiate addiction and withdrawals?
Not really HEAVY with only 30-40mg a day a mild w/ds as you said.
Is this the time to start tapering off, and if so, at what schedule per day?
If you have been on them for 2.5 years i would recommend taking 2.5mg less a dose for 1-2 months.
How long would the withdrawal symptoms last for someone with my low tolerance level?
If tapered right you should have little to no w/ds.
Is this a drug with a high relapse rate?
Depends on the person IMO.
How long will it take for my brain to return to pre-opiate pain sensation?
Depends, there is a rare side effect called hypersensitivity to pain from long term opiate use, as i said it is rare. If you do not have this side effect probably no more than 6 months after your completely quit i would think.
Hope this helps.
i was tapered off a around at least 200mg oxy a day habit that started as 115 then 2 months later 155 and was on the oxy for a total of 8 months or so and was tapered from my supposed dose of 155mg a day by 30mg 2 times a day for 3 days 20mg a day for 3 days and then 10mg a day for 3 days then 0 and had minimal w/ds. I hope this helps.

 

[Le Junk]

So my questions are these;

Am I in the initial stages of heavy opiate addiction and withdrawals?
Not really HEAVY with only 30-40mg a day a mild w/ds as you said.
Is this the time to start tapering off, and if so, at what schedule per day?
If you have been on them for 2.5 years i would recommend taking 2.5mg less a dose for 1-2 months.
How long would the withdrawal symptoms last for someone with my low tolerance level?
If tapered right you should have little to no w/ds.
Is this a drug with a high relapse rate?
Depends on the person IMO.
How long will it take for my brain to return to pre-opiate pain sensation?
Depends, there is a rare side effect called hypersensitivity to pain from long term opiate use, as i said it is rare. If you do not have this side effect probably no more than 6 months after your completely quit i would think.
Hope this helps.
i was tapered off a around at least 200mg oxy a day habit that started as 115 then 2 months later 155 and was on the oxy for a total of 8 months or so and was tapered from my supposed dose of 155mg a day by 30mg 2 times a day for 3 days 20mg a day for 3 days and then 10mg a day for 3 days then 0 and had minimal w/ds. I hope this helps.

I does, thanks!

Le Junk

 

[maddog78]

1-I do no think your usage, although habit forming, would be considered "heavy addiction"..therfore should not be too bad to quit

2-a taper would be the best, I am experimenting with one now..I would say,if you got the supply, strecth it out over a couple of weeks by reducing it about 5-10% per day and then jump off

3-if you stick with the palnned taper (and it is hard to do) you should not have much physical WD's, but an ongoing mental battle

4-Yes, I would say it has a high relapse rate

5-from my experience, your brain never returns to the stage where it did not know about opiates..it will always be there...probably like your brain still returns to the cocaine experiences


what pre-opiate pain sensation are you speaking of? are you taking them for pain or just for addiction?

Hope this helps...

 

[Le Junk]

what pre-opiate pain sensation are you speaking of? are you taking them for pain or just for addiction?
Hope this helps...

I probably should have made that more clear. No, I'm not taking them for pain, just for fun. What I was trying to ask was whether or not my brain would ever return to it's original state of not needing pain meds or not. I'll correct the original text. And yes, this does help. Thank you.....

Le Junk

 

[maddog78]

oh, Ok, it's just for fun..glad it's not pain...

isn't it ashame you can't just keep having fun?..seriously, yours is not bad, maybe 4-5 pills a day, depending on amounts...probably not enough to even cause any digestive "delays"..it sounds like you got it under pretty good control at that amount for that long...much better than I can do and most others I imagine...but as you have already mentioned, the ugly side is starting to show it's head....

stick with the plan and the brain will come around too...it's just hard to convince the brain that it can not have fun anymore!!

 

[Grumpy_Eel]

Am I in the initial stages of heavy opiate addiction and withdrawals?

Is this the time to start tapering off, and if so, at what schedule per day?

How long would the withdrawal symptoms last for someone with my low tolerance level?

Is this a drug with a high relapse rate?

How long will it take for my brain to return to pre-opiate status?

Thanks in advance, Le Junk

You are nowhere near a heavy opiate addiction. Your like a 2 on a scale of 10. You wont go through withdrawals on a couple of vics a day. Not real withdrawal.

I wouldnt even taper, theres no point. Your coming off 4 hydros a day. Just cold turkey it and youll be fine.

A day or two of feeling a little shitty. Thats probably about all youll feel.

Yeah it is.

For your tolerance to go down? Maybe 6 months, a year.

 

[LightTrailz]

Yes your still pretty good right now considering your dosage .. its more than likely some minor withdrawl ie the aches and pains .. im on around 120mg of oxycodone a day and i really only feel like that in the morning , i can work all day come home . go to sleep and wake up with it being 20 hrs since my last dose and i have NO withdrawl symptoms going on and can even go to the next morning sometimes without taking any of my medication ..

so that can give you an idea of how withdrawl affects different people at different times .. i would try to get out of that everyday use , its not something you want nor want to look forward to .

if you can try to keep it around that dosage without using more than you normally do , you should be fine .

 

[shake]

You are nowhere near a heavy opiate addiction. Your like a 2 on a scale of 10. You wont go through withdrawals on a couple of vics a day. Not real withdrawal.

I wouldnt even taper, theres no point. Your coming off 4 hydros a day. Just cold turkey it and youll be fine.

A day or two of feeling a little shitty. Thats probably about all youll feel.

Yeah it is.

For your tolerance to go down? Maybe 6 months, a year.

Whats you opinion of REAL withdrawal. Wdin is all the same to me. if its an opiod then it isnt fun.

If he has got the right amount of pills to do a taper then why would you not do a taper. even aty 40mgs a day hydro you will feel bad atleast in my opion you would Lejunk. And iam thinking a day or two isnt going to be all he is sick. try atleast4-5 days just to get all existing hydro flushed out you system. Once he has quit tolerance will definatly go down in less than 6 months to a year

I would start a 2 week taper and go down 5mgs every 2-3 days

 

[Grumpy_Eel]

I have differing views on w/d then most users here. I think alot of the severity of w/d is mental stuff. If your convinced your gonna be in pain, vomiting, etc you probably will be. But if you think youll be alright, you probably will be. And with such a low habit, i bet hell be fine, if he goes in with the right mindset.

Real withdrawal is like a bundle a day heroin habit, or 120oc a day or something.

I got thrown in jail a month or 2 ago, and came down off a year or so worth of iving morph 100s, k12s, etc. Every damn day. Shouldve had "real" w/d. But i think its a bunch of horseshit and what do you know? No pain and shit, no puking. Couldnt sleep at all, little sweaty, (but jails cold anyways) and i took my first unconstipated shit in god knows how long.

Its mind over matter.

 

[shake]

i try to do the mind over to stop the RLS but it never works. Once you shake that leg one time its all over with

 

[Grumpy_Eel]

Lol that reminds me of a peculiar tic i have. Whenever im high on opiates, which is virtually every day, I constantly snap my fingers on my left hand. I dont know why i do it, and i cant stop it for the life of me. Used to embarrass my girlfriend in front of her friends or her parents. I could act completely sober except for the finger snapping. Made me look like a friggin retard.

 

[Le Junk]

Thanks guys! I'm gonna keep you posted as to my results. The unfortunate news; hypothetically speaking, of course, I still have alot of the pills left. This seems to make the task just that much more difficult to complete, doesn't it? Now, as I said in my original thread, I've never gone the next day (today) without taking a pill upon waking. Well, it's now 9 AM, I've already taken my shower, and the day is about to get going here. I'm almost scared to leave the house without taking a pill along for fear I may really need one when I'm stuck out somewhere. I had the usual pain upon rising, but has since deminished. Will keep you posted......

Le Junk

 

[maddog78]

there goes the dick-sizing again..if you got the pills and feel uncomfortable, do the taper...no point in "be a man" syndrome..hope you can stay off....

 

[Le Junk]

there goes the dick-sizing again..if you got the pills and feel uncomfortable, do the taper...no point in "be a man" syndrome..hope you can stay off....

Your totally right. No need to point out specifics. *Last post edited to not reflect actual #'s.* Anyway, thanks and I'll keep you informed of my progress.

Le Junk

 

[Mr Blonde]

Lol that reminds me of a peculiar tic i have. Whenever im high on opiates, which is virtually every day, I constantly snap my fingers on my left hand. I dont know why i do it, and i cant stop it for the life of me. Used to embarrass my girlfriend in front of her friends or her parents. I could act completely sober except for the finger snapping. Made me look like a friggin retard.

How many times do we have to tell you Grumpy, she isn't your girlfriend, she is just your ARC Social Worker.

How many dudes do you know meet their social worker's parents?

ETA: Le Junk, good luck buddy; personally I think that at 40mg of hydrocodone, a taper may not be necessary but go with whatever you think will work.

 

[bingey]

Yes lejunk if this will be your first opiate withdrawal the mental effects (like depression and anxiety) shoulnd't be too much of a problem it will feel more like a bad flu.


I think you are really well on your way to heavy opiate addiction , 50 mg of hydro might not be much in comparison to other posters but do keep in mind that with codeine for instance that dose can not even be reached so not catpiss imo.


I think the actual withdrawal will last 4-6 days with residual lethargy , depression and anxietgy for 2 weeks to 1,5 month this resetting of the opiate receptors or PAWS as it's called varies a lot from person to person but usually only starts playing a serious role when it's like your umpteenth withdrawal. There is strong evidence that your brain willl never fully recover , so keep thjat in mind when you are tempted by relapse your tolerance might be down again for 1-2 times but after that you will be back to your usual dose.

and yes i think you should taper real quick , like in 3 days , first day 40 , second 20 , last 5 , and keep some benzos , weed , immodium (loads of it on hand) check out the guide to WD by phreex it gives you a good idea what to use which medication for.

oh and if you can get clonidine it's the best , takes care of stuff like chills/hot flushing , excessive sweating and insomnia


best of luck

 

[edarrin]

[QUOTE For those familiar with real cocaine, I think you'll find the similarities indisputable.

][/QUOTE]

Man, do we have similar backgrounds. You got me beat by about 2years though with the coke . My thing was coke and booze for a loooong time. We must also be similar in age which is pretty rare here.

The similarity of which you speak, even though they are opposites, is the dopamine stimulation probably.

I went on a coke binge (just one night thank God) after not using for maybe 15-16 years because I was on one of my quitting opiates episodes and for some reason, seemingly out of the blue, i went and scored some coke. Weird I thought but when i thought about the dopamine thing it made sense. I was anhedonic and didn't want to relapse on opiates so I used coke. hey, I never claimed to be the most logical person

I have since been told this is pretty common. I see a pain management doc and the guy I was seeing at the time was pretty open-minded. He let it slid (urine samples so I told him). Since it was only once. he also works in a MMT clinic and told me it was common when w/d'ing but it usually meant the person was going to go right off the rails. you can't be a functional coke addict IMO. At least I can't.

To be honest, I would just go cold turkey. get some benzos and clonidine if you can. in 5 days the worst is over and then you have to deal with PAWS (which can be really hard). A lot of people cannot handle a taper as it requires willpower of steel and you suffer through longer term partial w/d IME. I find with me it takes about 3 days to get used to a dose decrease.

you should definitely stop now if you can. The PAWS is a killer though. Now with work and all I can't be a zombie.

Suboxone is another option. Just use it to taper though. I tried it once and it was pretty painless. Just a headache and insomnia. I find clonidine really helps with opiate insomnia in the PAWS stage. Mindfullness based meditation is also good for stress management. I have a very stressfull job and it's hard to deal with the fatigue from not sleeping properly (and also the hep c I picked up in my earlier days pre harm reduction). So I haven't been sucsessful myself yet but I'm not giving up.

Good luck.

 

[Le Junk]

Man, do we have similar backgrounds. You got me beat by about 2years though with the coke . My thing was coke and booze for a loooong time. We must also be similar in age which is pretty rare here.

The similarity of which you speak, even though they are opposites, is the dopamine stimulation probably.

I went on a coke binge (just one night thank God) after not using for maybe 15-16 years because I was on one of my quitting opiates episodes and for some reason, seemingly out of the blue, i went and scored some coke. Weird I thought but when i thought about the dopamine thing it made sense. I was anhedonic and didn't want to relapse on opiates so I used coke. hey, I never claimed to be the most logical person

I have since been told this is pretty common. I see a pain management doc and the guy I was seeing at the time was pretty open-minded. He let it slid (urine samples so I told him). Since it was only once. he also works in a MMT clinic and told me it was common when w/d'ing but it usually meant the person was going to go right off the rails. you can't be a functional coke addict IMO. At least I can't.

To be honest, I would just go cold turkey. get some benzos and clonidine if you can. in 5 days the worst is over and then you have to deal with PAWS (which can be really hard). A lot of people cannot handle a taper as it requires willpower of steel and you suffer through longer term partial w/d IME. I find with me it takes about 3 days to get used to a dose decrease.

you should definitely stop now if you can. The PAWS is a killer though. Now with work and all I can't be a zombie.

Suboxone is another option. Just use it to taper though. I tried it once and it was pretty painless. Just a headache and insomnia. I find clonidine really helps with opiate insomnia in the PAWS stage. Mindfullness based meditation is also good for stress management. I have a very stressfull job and it's hard to deal with the fatigue from not sleeping properly (and also the hep c I picked up in my earlier days pre harm reduction). So I haven't been sucsessful myself yet but I'm not giving up.

Good luck.

Yeah I'm 43, so I'm sure we're pretty close in age. Actually, I was already aware of the dopamine thingy, as my mother of all people, uncovered that information in a study she came across once. Dopamine junkie, that's me alright!

For the record, I only took 30 mg.s today. It's getting a little depressing right now with a mild headache, so I'll make this short and then turn in for the night. I should add that I do have both suboxone and valiums on hand. I was given the suboxone by a fellow opiate addict who was in rehab, and the valiums I still have from my coke days. So according to your suggestions, I'm apparentely armed and ready to go cold turkey.

I'm going to see if I can drop it down by 10 mg.s a day first. I'm a glutten for mental punishment, so tapering off should really bring on the pain. If I see that failing, then I'll go the route you and a few others have suggested. Of course there's that lingering thought in the back of my head that keeps saying, "Hey, why quit now? Just wait until your about out of pills before you do that". Sound familiar at all?

So I only took 30 mg.s today. I'm starting to feel like crap, so I'm going to bed. Thanks everyone for all your help and suggestions!

Le Junk

 

[maddog78]

Yes, CT might also work..I would say it would be the 3rd day without anything is when you might get sick,at that point, start taking small amounts, 1/2 pill & such and you work your way thru it without much discomfort...no need to ride it out totally CT...the body does not require much in this situatioin..remember this is not the fun part like you normally take them, this is getting better so the routine changes...keep me posted as I am starting one tomorow..hopefully....