Putting yourself on TRT?

Sorry but I'm starting to feel like Watchamacallit here. You are a dumbass. Not only is Diesel Test a Prohormone but its been discontinued because of that fact.

If a product claims to INCREASE HORMONE LEVELS it is a PRO HORMONE by definition. Most pro hormones are actually just designer steroids because they don't work to increase testosterone levels via natural means (ie, providing the body with more building blocks for testosterone), they simply take a steroid compound and slightly modify it so that it is legal, orally available, and easy for your body to convert directly to the steroid or testosterone derivative.

For this reason I find the entire pro hormone craze to be absolutely fucking hilarious. There are a billion possible legal testosterone boosting compounds because there is a virtually unlimited number of ways that testosterone derivatives can be chemically modified to convert in the human body and escape legal action simultaneously. The problem here is that every single one of these compounds will act just like real steroids do - they will SHUT DOWN your body's natural production of testosterone. Yes you will see elevated levels of testosterone while on the product. You might even see lower levels of estrogen, cortisol, and prolactin - that's because these products contain chemicals that will artificially suppress these hormones in the human body. Once you stop taking the pro hormone you know what you're going to get? SIDE EFFECTS and lots of them because you won't be on a proper PCT protocol because you have been SCAMMED into taking an orally active and very harsh designer steroid. Your cortisol, prolactin, and estrogen levels will rebound. Your test levels will drop dramatically because your testicals will be shutdown. This will result in numerous side effects - gyno, mood swings, severe muscle loss, energy loss, etc. etc. Not to mention your liver will be struggling because its been busily working away converting these orally available steroids into chemicals that your body can use - a process that is extremely liver toxic. But of course you won't have been taking any liver therapy shit because you think you aren't on roids.

Good luck with that shit.
 
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aanallein said:
Sorry but I'm starting to feel like Watchamacallit here. You are a dumbass. Not only is Diesel Test a Prohormone but its been discontinued because of that fact.

If a product claims to INCREASE HORMONE LEVELS it is a PRO HORMONE by definition. Most pro hormones are actually just designer steroids because they don't work to increase testosterone levels via natural means (ie, providing the body with more building blocks for testosterone), they simply take a steroid compound and slightly modify it so that it is legal, orally available, and easy for your body to convert directly to the steroid or testosterone derivative.

For this reason I find the entire pro hormone craze to be absolutely fucking hilarious. There are a billion possible legal testosterone boosting compounds because there is a virtually unlimited number of ways that testosterone derivatives can be chemically modified to convert in the human body and escape legal action simultaneously. The problem here is that every single one of these compounds will act just like real steroids do - they will SHUT DOWN your body's natural production of testosterone. Yes you will see elevated levels of testosterone while on the product. You might even see lower levels of estrogen, cortisol, and prolactin - that's because these products contain chemicals that will artificially suppress these hormones in the human body. Once you stop taking the pro hormone you know what you're going to get? SIDE EFFECTS and lots of them because you won't be on a proper PCT protocol because you have been SCAMMED into taking an orally active and very harsh designer steroid. Your cortisol, prolactin, and estrogen levels will rebound. Your test levels will drop dramatically because your testicals will be shutdown. This will result in numerous side effects - gyno, mood swings, severe muscle loss, energy loss, etc. etc. Not to mention your liver will be struggling because its been busily working away converting these orally available steroids into chemicals that your body can use - a process that is extremely liver toxic. But of course you won't have been taking any liver therapy shit because you think you aren't on roids.

Good luck with that shit.

I was using the commonly accepted medical definition of prohormones and not the aanallein's easy guide to bodybuilding definiton. There is a huge difference.
carry on living in your own private idaho, or do a google search and educate yourself.
 
You obviously have NO FUCKING IDEA WHAT A PROHORMONE IS.

A Prohormone is ANY compound that is meant to manipulate hormone levels. Specifically in this case, increase testosterone levels. Nearly every single prohormone is nothing but a designer steroid. TAKE A FUCKING CHEMISTRY CLASS AND PUT THE DICTIONARY (OR WIKIPEDIA) DOWN SON. You have NO idea how much more educated I am in virtually every single thing to do with the human body than you are. I went through upper devision Organic Chemistry. I know my shit. I get my bloodwork done every other month. I can deadlift in the 600s without breaking a sweat.

Go take your prohormones and watch your balls shrink and your nipples get hard as gyno sets in. See if I give half a shit.
 
BTW if you aren't even gonna bother reading some shit that is actually the bottom line truth then good luck to you in life. Fucking noob.
 
Mmm, I kind of agree with cocoabud. In the popular usage, 'pro-hormone' has come to refer to substances that convert to an active hormone in the body. While aanallein's definition is more technically correct, CB's is more mainstream. I guess I'm just saying there's probably no need to get too excited arguing the point. :)

The problem here is that every single one of these compounds will act just like real steroids do - they will SHUT DOWN your body's natural production of testosterone.

'Suppress' is more accurate. The elevated levels of androgens will reduce the production of gonadotropins like follicle stimulating hormone, which will reduce testicle size/function over time. How much of a reduction depends on the type and quantity of androgens and how long they're used; lower doses of milder stuff will likely never lead to full shutdown of endogenous test production, and brief doses (say days to a few weeks) of any steroid won't suppress FSH, etc. production long enough to lead to extensive enough testicular atrophy to produce full shutdown.

Yes you will see elevated levels of testosterone while on the product.

That's not always the case. While some 'pro-hormones' produce elevated testosterone, many are converted into other potent androgens such as boldenone (so technically, no increase in test.)

You might even see lower levels of estrogen, cortisol, and prolactin - that's because these products contain chemicals that will artificially suppress these hormones in the human body.

If the 'pro-hormone' (or it's metabolites) aren't converted into estrogens, then yes, estrogen levels would be expected to drop over time as endogenous test production (and hence, test levels) declined (since estrogen is primarily produced from testosterone.) This long term suppression of estrogen levels is typically a side effect of testicular atrophy (and the absence of exogenous aromatisable androgens), rather than due to a secondary active ingredient in the 'pro-hormone' (although some do indeed contain alleged anti-estrogens.)

I'm not aware of a steroid or 'pro-hormone' that suppresses cortisol or prolactin levels directly, although some are known to interfere with receptors (trenbolone comes to mind.)

Your cortisol, prolactin, and estrogen levels will rebound. Your test levels will drop dramatically because your testicals will be shutdown.

Cortisol and prolactin will likely rise; estrogen levels will if anything remain suppressed (because there's less testosterone being produced, and test is the main precursor to estrogen.) However, it is possible to get estrogenic side effects like gyno even at normal or somewhat low levels of estrogen if androgen levels are also low (due to testicle atrophy) since androgens reduce the tendency of breast tissue to grow.


There's a lot of subtle and interesting pharmacology at work when it comes to steroids and sex hormones. I only understand some of the broad picture myself. This complexity is part of the reason most people shouldn't use steroids; they're dealing with an area of medicine they almost certainly don't have the background to understand, and what they don't know can definitely hurt them. If you're thinking of juicing, study until you think you know it all. And then study for another 6-12 months. :)
 
aanallein said:
You obviously have NO FUCKING IDEA WHAT A PROHORMONE IS.

A Prohormone is ANY compound that is meant to manipulate hormone levels. Specifically in this case, increase testosterone levels. Nearly every single prohormone is nothing but a designer steroid. TAKE A FUCKING CHEMISTRY CLASS AND PUT THE DICTIONARY (OR WIKIPEDIA) DOWN SON. You have NO idea how much more educated I am in virtually every single thing to do with the human body than you are. I went through upper devision Organic Chemistry. I know my shit. I get my bloodwork done every other month. I can deadlift in the 600s without breaking a sweat.

Go take your prohormones and watch your balls shrink and your nipples get hard as gyno sets in. See if I give half a shit.

the product I mentioned contains no prohormones. prohormones in a strict chemical definition are precursors. nothing in the product I mentioned is a precursor to testosterone. your are free to redefine things as you please, however real science does exist outside of your definition. What you are defining is known as pro-testosterone product, which is anything that promotes testosterone, however not all pro-testosterone agents are prohormones. Pro-testosterone products, like the one I mention, promote natural increases in testosterone while prohormone products tend to replace natural testosterone production. Additionally, try to get a grip on that rage of yours, you will feel better.
 
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Sorry but you are simply wrong. You can read wikipedia and use it as gospel but it won't get you far. I've taken upper level organic chem. What these companies do is simply add a methyl group to an existing anabolic substance to create a new legal and orally active steroid. Or at best they claim that they have created some form of LH booster to boost test (unproven garbage science).

Tell me, if Diesel Test wasn't a prohormone.. why was it discontinued?

Furthermore, regardless of the definition of Pro Hormone, you do realize that the main active ingredient in Diesel Test is Tribbulus which has been proven ineffective in studies?

And I'm really not that excited I'm just typing WITH CAPS ON for emphasis.

As an aside, my free test is at 170 which is extremely high. I've gotten it to this point with simply diet and heavy exercise. Deadlifting and Squating are the best test boosters. If you want to spend 40 or 50 bucks a month on a product that probably won't have any effect on you.. go for it.
 
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Good post TheDEA and I agree with most of it. I'd just like to say that while the traditional definition and my definition may not agree - definitions are pretty meaningless.

The big market craze right now is to produce products that are NOT scientifically tested and mess directly or indirectly with hormone levels. Our hormones are delicately balanced through a series of feedback loops. Tinkering with them with chemicals has almost universally been shown to down regulate somewhere else along the line.

If somebody is going to put these compounds into their body I really have to wonder at their understanding of their body, science, and their dedication to their training. They might as well start shooting Test E. if they are willing to take some of this trash.
 
Good Lord boys, I stop by to post my recent findings from MEX and find this instead. My favorite debate: Are pro-hormones THE SHIT or JUST SHIT?

I'll stand next to aanallein on this topic. I also wonder why anyone would emphasize "Diesel Test" over nutrition and training but hell, if GNC is selling it behind the counter then it must be good, right?

Anyway, my search for Humatrope was a success. 20ml bottles for $80-110 depending on the pharm. Test was cheaper then I've seen it for the last several years as everyone wants GH. Winny from AUS in abundance also.

Good luck
 
CJC-1295. This stuff is GOOD. It took a couple weeks for it to really kick in now it has. I'm noticing a lot of the effects of elevated IGF. Blood veins standing out on my torso (thats how I know elevated IGF is in my system!), big pumps, awesome nutrient shuttling into muscles. Its cleared up a climbing injury I had in way less time than normal.

good stuff.
 
this is the stuff that Sphinx (In the Eyes of God) was talking about?
 
aanallein said:
Sorry but you are simply wrong. You can read wikipedia and use it as gospel but it won't get you far. I've taken upper level organic chem. What these companies do is simply add a methyl group to an existing anabolic substance to create a new legal and orally active steroid. Or at best they claim that they have created some form of LH booster to boost test (unproven garbage science).

Tell me, if Diesel Test wasn't a prohormone.. why was it discontinued?

Furthermore, regardless of the definition of Pro Hormone, you do realize that the main active ingredient in Diesel Test is Tribbulus which has been proven ineffective in studies?

And I'm really not that excited I'm just typing WITH CAPS ON for emphasis.

As an aside, my free test is at 170 which is extremely high. I've gotten it to this point with simply diet and heavy exercise. Deadlifting and Squating are the best test boosters. If you want to spend 40 or 50 bucks a month on a product that probably won't have any effect on you.. go for it.

actually you are referring to an earlier formulation of diesel test know as 2040 and I am referring to the latest formulation as I mentioned in a prior post known as Hardcore. The formulation I'm talking about contains no pro-hormones. As an aside, it seems in your world definitions are meaningless, however in the world of science they are necessary. As far as any of the ingredients being effective or ineffective I acknowledged the fact that this product may or may not work.
 
Ok here let me do a synopsis on the production of testosterone:

1. Hypothalamus releases a substance to the Pituitary Gland called Gonadotropin Releasing hormone (GnRH).
2. GnRH causes the pituitary to produce Follicle- Stimulating Hormone (FSH) and Luteinizing Hormone (LH), which are Gonadotropins.
3. LH travels to the Testes where it triggers the production of Testosterone from Cholesterol.
4. Cholesterol is converted to Pregnenolon via Cholesterol Side Cleavage Enzyme.
5. Pregnenolone is coverted through a series of compounds including Progesterone, Deoxycorticosterone, Corticosterone, Aldosterone, Cortisol, Dehydroepiandrosterone, Androstanediol, and others.
6. Eventually this process creates Testosterone.
7. If too much Testosterone is produced the pituitary slows release of LH via a reduction in GnRH from the Hypothalamus in a reverse feedback mechanism.

Every product on the market that claims to boost testosterone does it by tinkering with this chain of events. Why was Andro such a popular pro-hormone? Because its the immediate precursor to Test in the body so it had a huge effect on Test levels.

The problem with tinkering with any step in this process is that there are reverse feedback mechanisms in place to keep things balanced. If you increase LH levels via some random herb, the body will know it and subsequently, lower the release of GnRH to keep things in balance.

I don't care WHAT the product claims it is. "Test Booster" is an artificial term created by these companies to distract you from the fact that anything that boosts your testosterone level does so via some step in this chain and the body has reverse feedback loops in place at every step to control production of testosterone.

The best way to increase Testosterone is to increase the body's demand for testosterone via heavy exercise. If you put your body in a state where it needs the hormone, you won't activate feedback mechanisms that will lead to a slowdown or shutdown of production.

There simply isn't a way to "boost" test levels without doing so somewhere along the chain of events I illustrated. Its not biologically possible. So maybe the definition of prohormone stops at the cholesterol cleaving enzyme and everything beyond that is by definition a testosterone 'booster' but seriously - same fucking difference man. As each step in the process is regulated by a reverse feedback mechanism, you can be sure that boosting LH levels will have the same net effect as taking Andro would ultimately - a slow down in your body's natural production of test without the compound.
 
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I dosed it 500ug 2x a week. Its going strong, definitely releasing GH and also I get the same side fx as I did when I dosed IGF @40ug PWO. Everytime I eat something my muscles pump up (I guess this is because IGF's insulin properties?) my fingers are kinda 'sticky' in the joints like happens on Hexarelin. I feel great and lost the LBs I had gained during winter quick and retained good amount of muscle.

Good stuff, pricey though (cheaper than GH though I think).
 
^ Yeah on my salary I can't afford anything like that and in all honesty I wouldn't want to use a peptide or HGH unless I was already on a cycle of Test E as I've read the synergy of the two is massively better than Growth Hormone alone (plus Test E is comparably cheap).

Plus this is just a hobby and I'd rather not start messing with stuff like that. Good to hear its working out for you though.
 
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