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Anxiolytic Effect of Erythrina mulungu extract

Kind of hard to say, it wasn't exactly similar to valium, just that it helped with anxiety like valium does. It's a bit more clear headed than valium, it sort of helps to wipe your mind clear as long as you are awake, if I got to sleep I get really strange thought patterns until I doze off, once I'm asleep I'm fine, but whilst trying to get to sleep its very odd.

Good for anxiety, and good for sleep, without the horrible depression long term alternatives such as kava can bring. It's certainly worth a try, especially if an acetone extraction would work.
 
I highly doubt my acetone washes brought out the actives properly, I would say I have lost maybe 50% of them? It's highly subjective though.

I take 200mg of my extract then smoked a bit, it helps me get to sleep.

In the mornings I notice a fairly strange state, normally I wake up early, then drift in and out of semi lucid dreams until I get up, when I take mulungu the semi lucid state turns into a very lucid state, the dreams are always absolutely beautiful, and I get a really happy warm feeling.

Superior to nodding on opium in my opinion, although it makes me not want to get out of bed (I get that anyway though :)).
 
I have noted some problems with low blood pressure with using extracts of mulungu - though I am currently on a medication which in its own turn can cause low blood pressure so this might be of note for other people in the same situation.

Mulungu extract can knock me out nicely, with a small bit of pleasant sedation in it but i'm curious to find out how much of this is present when going from root bark.
 
I`m definately interested in this Amazonian plant/tree,i have periodic bouts of insomnia coupled with slight depression and anxiety.

Benzodiazepines are out of the question because of the addiction potential and the sedating side effects that can persist into the next day,anti-depressants such as SSRI and MOAI as well as Tricyclics are something i don`t really want to take for something that is periodic,i feel taking these meds would only lead to another problem bigger than the one i have.

Would Mulungu be an alternative with potential?
 
Limpet_Chicken said:
Careful looking at erythrina species, in case one makes a mistaken ID, some contain some fairly nasty toxins IIRC.
Click to expand...

Most of the more toxic varieties of erythrina are found in the Eastern world/Africa, whereas many of the North American species have been more extensively used as medicinal herbs by natives.

However, the very dangerous curariform toxin beta-erythroidine and dihydro-beta-erythroidine are very similar in structure to erythravine. I guess time will tell how safe this actually is; hopefully it's not another kava.

http://www.tocris.com/products/Dihydro-beta-erythroidine.php

The toxicity of erythroidine hydrochloride was determined
on white mice by Trevan's method, and results are given for oral and subcutaneous
administration. A modified Claude Bernard test of the curare action
on frogs showed that injection of 0.1 to 0.15 mg. per frog into the lymph sac caused
complete motor paralysis. Unlike curare, erythroidine is effective when administered
orally. The yield of erythroidine was 0.7 to 0.9 per cent. of the seed weight.
Click to expand...
http://www.rsc.org/delivery/_Articl...leForFree.cfm?doi=AN9376200744&JournalCode=AN
 
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Are erythroidine and its dihydro derivative depolarising or non depolarising neuromuscular blockers? if they are like curare and do not depolarise the neurons prior to inducing paralysis then test runs with someone standing by with O2 and a cholinesterase inhibitor would be a good precaution to take, should things all go tits up.
 
IlostaMadge, what did you mean, when you said:
Good for anxiety, and good for sleep, without the horrible depression long term alternatives such as kava can bring.
Click to expand...

Kava can bring depression? What? Is that so...? I have never ever felt depressed with kava, quite the contrary instead, I got sort of relief with kava though I had to use too much of kava (ran out of it quite quickly).

But that Mulungu is absolutely one which I want to try... For the relaxation in the evening... I am using mirtazapine to get myself to slepp, and I don't have any depression: Mirtazapine is just for sleeping to me; so possibly I could quit it with Mulungu... Hmmm...
 
Are erythroidine and its dihydro derivative depolarising or non depolarising neuromuscular blockers?
Click to expand...

I think they are depolarizing; here's another interesting paper:
THE ACTION OF SOME DERIVATIVES OF BETA-ERYTHROIDINE ON PERIPHERAL NEURO-EFFECTOR SYSTEMS
DAVID MEGIRIAN 1, D. E. LEARY 1, and I. H. SLATER 1

1 The Univeisity of Rochester, School of Medicine and Dentistry, Department of Surgery, Division of Orthopedics and Department of Radiation Biology, Division of Pharmacology


The action of beta-erythroidine and 24 derivatives of known structure has been tested on neuromuscular and ganglionic transmission using mice, rats and cats. Compounds retaining the spiro-tertiary-carbinamino group showed both neuromuscular and ganglionic blocking action. In general, the alkaloids as tertiary amines were more active at motor endplates and the methiodide

salts were more active at ganglia. Available data suggest that these compounds fall in the group of competitive neuromuscular blocking agents.

Hydrogenation increased potency but other structural modifications reduced activity.

Desmethoxy-beta-erythroidine could be shown to possess ganglionic and neuromuscular blocking action but in intact animals its outstanding action was to cause clonic convulsions ending in death in tonic extensor seizures.

Apo-beta-erythroidine and related compounds without the spiro-carbon configuration were devoid of neuromuscular blocking action, but showed central nervous system depressant and gamiglionic depressant action.

Apo-beta-erythroidine methiodide was a neuromuscular and ganglionic blocking agent. Its neuromuscular effect appears to be a mixture of depolarizimig and competitive activity.
Click to expand...
http://jpet.aspetjournals.org/cgi/content/abstract/113/2/212

My worry is that the compound is likely to be a nicotinic/cholinergic antagonist and that an overdose could cause paralysis followed by death, and that the person overdosing would be aware that they had overdosed and conscious but at the same time totally unable to seek any help.

Tread lightly.
 
Canis aureus said:
IlostaMadge, what did you mean, when you said:

Kava can bring depression? What? Is that so...? I have never ever felt depressed with kava, quite the contrary instead, I got sort of relief with kava though I had to use too much of kava (ran out of it quite quickly).

But that Mulungu is absolutely one which I want to try... For the relaxation in the evening... I am using mirtazapine to get myself to slepp, and I don't have any depression: Mirtazapine is just for sleeping to me; so possibly I could quit it with Mulungu... Hmmm...
Click to expand...

That was my quote... Kava gives me depression if I take too much of it over a few day period, I've spoke to a few people who agree but everyone is different.

I also take mirtazapine but for sleep, depression and anxiety but I'm gonna come off of it as it ain't doing shit for me anymore. I've told my doctor a couple of times that it is because he has upped my dosage; he doesn't seem to get it... Gonna come off it when my uni year ends (couple of days).

The mulungu is a very effective sleep aid, mirtazapine isn't something I would like to take simply for sleep, can't imagine fucking around with nor-epinephrine, dopamine and serotonin is too good for you...

Mulungu also has supposed health benefits for the liver amongst other things, it's certainly worth a bash, it's some of the most refreshing sleep I've had in years, even better than GBL as it doesn't have the dopamine rebound crap.
 
Can confirm that the full-spectrum alkaloid tea from bark have a larger scope of effects - slightly euphoric, very nice bodily feeling as well as the sedation which was I primarily noticed of the extracts... It's cheap, as tea it tastes well (sometimes I add a little honey) and effective as an benso-type drug replacement.

Can anyone elaborate on longer term usage?
 
is any mulungu euphoric at all...?

sometimes i think a percentage of people reporting are placebo inclined or lightest of lightweights for certain effects :\

anyway, as to the toxic principles...it always dose, nicotine is a potent toxin (moreso than many we consider classical poisons) but at low doses is of BENEFIT, same i think potentially with the erythroidines
 
Errrmm....nicotine is an agonist at nicotinic receptors, curare, sux, and the like are antagonists at the neuromuscular junction type nicotinic receptor, blocking cholinergic signals, and causing paralysis by binding in place of acetylcholine, but without efficacy at the receptor.

Works like krait venom (bungarotoxin), not nice stuff.
 
simply stating that any compound that has a noted toxicity it is only relevant above a certain dosage

akin to how a very common substance that is not viewed as a toxin/poison, nicotine, is indeed I believe a stronger poison per weight than stryctnine, cyanide, and others

so as such note that the erythroidine class while indeed can be toxic or have severe adverse/deadly side effects at certain doses, well below these doses they are relatively safe and actually may have useful benefits

such as I am investigating DHBE for it's potential as a smoking cessation agent
....one always has to assess the therapeutic index...
 
Is DHBE specific for the NM junction, or does it affect CNS/ganglion type NAChRs also?

AFAIK the lethal dose of nicotine for an adult is somewhere in the area of 40-50mg or so, strychnine much less so, not completely sure about cyanides.
 
Strychnine human lethal dose is estimated at 100-120 mg for an adult as i see in some references, less in others

Cyanide is ~5mg/kg

DHBE affects the CNS as a selective a4b2 antagonist, the primary site of nicotine dependence
 
i find mulungu much more of a serious medicine type of feeling,very excellent tranquilizer,so far my favorite herb powders are a powerful replacement for day-time use of xanax,which i wanted to avoid,because of the potential for dependance.I use now Mulungu powder 3,000 mgs,2 times a day,or albizzia powder same 3,000 mgs,and have thrown away passion flower,hops,skullcap,damiana and that generation of herbal alternatives.I now have no daytime anxiety at all,never need a xanax except for sleep,1 mg. only.I do not believe mulungu or albizzia or tranquilizing herbs can be abused,they are just too sobering of a feeling,your thoughts get clearer,not muddier,and you cannot get doped up from them,they are absolutely wonderful though,try them...here is my herbal collection for anxiety,always taken on seperate days,and not together...Mulungu,albizzia bark,kava powder,jatamansi powder,ashwaghanda powder,bacopa monnieri powder,and corydalis 10:1,i alternate between these every day.Even some chinese herbs work well,but i find indian medicinal herbs friendlier and lighter than chinese,which can give me a dark feeling.
 
Im actually on Mulungu 90% extract right now. I just put about 1.5grams in 2 gel-caps and swallowed em both (i know thats a big dose). And im feeling it really good right now, it feels really nice, like i dont feel like moving and my eyes are getting tired, also has good anti-anxiety properties to it kinda like a benzo. I really like it but then again I take at least agram to get good effects but it is defiantly worth it and one of the legal herbs that actually work. someone told me to smoke it but it didn't burn well or do much of anything.. Anyone else got any info or experiece on mulungu 90% Extract??
 
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