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4-HO-MIPT scraps

morninggloryseed said:
I could say this of any number of substances. Psychedelic or otherwise. I tasted (licked the bag and tripped too) of 4-AcO-MiPT and didn't think it was worse than 5-MeO-DiPT. Now that's bitter! 8o

I agree completely! Though other substances are bitter, foxy definitely takes first place for foulest-tasting. It's not only bitter, but it has this other disgusting flavor which makes it that much worse!

BTW, how would you guys compare 4-HO-MiPT and 4-AcO-MiPT to 4-AcO-DET and mushrooms? How similar are they, and how different?
 
magickalkat could you please expand on the fact that the non-hygroscopic 4-AcO-MiPT is saturated in another chemical, as I would like to know more about this. If you'd rather send me a PM then please do. thanks.
 
I am comng down from a 20mg expereience right now and damn this one has got to be one of the most profound and amazing expereinces of my life so far. It's going to take a while to integrate this one.

Cool, I will be interested to read about it if you decide to write a trip report on this one. :)
 
Scanning the archives turned up a lot of discussion of 4-aco-mipt being hygroscopic (the degree depending on the batch), but I have not uncovered any mention of 4-ho-mipt turning to goo. Has this happened to anyone yet?
 
No.

However, they are now starting to saturate all the 4-hydroxylated and 4-acetoxy tryptamines with ethyl acetate, supposedly to prevent the hygroscopia. Hence the turpentiney smell of 4-AcO-DET now.
 
georgiapoppy said:
The color auras actually make things appear or an object start to form out of them. Completely amazing. =D

Wow. That's very interesting. Myself and my friends all experienced this same phonomenon. It reminded all of us of the visuals you have on the comedown from a huge dose of MDA. But you hit it right on the nose!
 
I'd just like to comment on 4-AcO-MiPT as compared with my 4-HO-MiPT experiment. I tried 4-HO-MiPT at 12mgs, and I posted on here what that seemed to be like. However, last night I tried 20mgs of 4-AcO-MiPT, and I'll have to say, at that dosage, it really lacked some of the pleasurable "rolling" body feeling that Miprocin had. 20mgs of the AcO version was significantly more intense for me. I had a very strong spiritual feeling inside of me, an urge to dance in sync with the visuals, etc, much like mushrooms do to me at first, but during the hard part of the peak, I had the "fear of God" in me, as I always describe extremely intense trips. I just wanted to let people know that if you are unsure of yourself with psychedelics, and you want to try 4-AcO/HO-MiPT, you definitely need to watch the dosages. The effects were strikingly similar to a high dose of Psilocybin, yet it did have a unique character. It was not a "recreational" experience for me at this dosage. I needed a trip that intense for a long time, though I think I'm going to wait before I start experimenting with 4-HO-MiPT at higher dosages.
 
If theres one thing Ive gleaned from all the reports and comments Ive read, its that much of the 4-AcO-MiPT and 4-HO-MiPT on the market are impure and/or cut with other shit, both psychoactive and nonpsychoactive. If youre eating the 4-AcO-MiPT, most of it should be converted into 4-HO-MiPT by the esterases in your body (according to Shulgin). The general breakdown of such benzyloxy esters in the body is pretty well established biochemistry, though, so I see no reason to doubt that assertion. I believe this is corroborated by results of clinical experiments with psilocybin (4-PO4-DMT, the phosphoryloxy ester of psilocin) and psilocin (4-HO-DMT) that established the subjective effects and potencies (corrected for mass difference) to be essentially the same between the two. In any case, there is lots of anecdotal evidence from people like Hoffman, Huxley, Shulgin, Wasson, Mazatec shamans, etc. that the the psychoactive effects of the two are the same. Thus, if you experience significant differences (other than in potency, of which PURE 4-HO should be more potent) between the two, its either all in your head or the drug you have is impure/degrading or something else entirely. This is very probable because the majority of the RCs on the market are coming from China, and as far as I know, are not tested for purity by GC/MS (gas chromatography/mass spectrometry, the most reliable method).
 
^^ Must be the 'something else entirely' then, because the 4-HO-MiPT I've sampled is VERY different from the 4-AcO-MiPT I've sampled. This is well beyond 'mind over matter', IMO.

I agree that technically what you're saying makes complete sense, but didn't even Shulgin and crew report pretty different experiences between the HO and the AcO?

What I do know is that I much prefer 4-HO-MiPT, and the reasons why I prefer it are strikingly similar to what many others seem to be saying in terms of its effects. Again, this *could* be the power of suggestion, technically...but it's simply not. ;)

Best,

...Ad
 
If theres one thing Ive gleaned from all the reports and comments Ive read, its that much of the 4-AcO-MiPT and 4-HO-MiPT on the market are impure and/or cut with other shit, both psychoactive and nonpsychoactive. If youre eating the 4-AcO-MiPT, most of it should be converted into 4-HO-MiPT by the esterases in your body (according to Shulgin).

I suggest you read what Shulgin wrote in is Tikhal page on 4-ho-mipt about the observations his people made in regards to the indolol vs. the acetate ester. He was a little perplexed himself about the results.

I believe this is corroborated by results of clinical experiments with psilocybin (4-PO4-DMT, the phosphoryloxy ester of psilocin) and psilocin (4-HO-DMT) that established the subjective effects and potencies (corrected for mass difference) to be essentially the same between the two. In any case, there is lots of anecdotal evidence from people like Hoffman, Huxley, Shulgin, Wasson, Mazatec shamans, etc. that the the psychoactive effects of the two are the same.

Actually I believe they've even done urine tests on people who were given psilocybin and found only psilocin in their urine. But that doesn't necessarily prove anything conclusively about 4-aco-mipt.
 
^^^Well, obviously it doesnt; Im not saying it did. I just read the appropriate entry in TiHKAL, and the few commentaries in there corroborated what you said. However, I dont think he noted any qualitative differences in the mental/psychedelic aspects of the experience (as opposed to the physiological effect of the tremor), and the main difference seemed to be that of potency, which I can believe, because the shit could get broken down. I just dont think that the qualitative psychedelic effects would be very different between the two unless the acetate ester is not hydrolyzed before the compound hits the brain (or unless some of the metabolites are also psychoactive). The entries in his book constitute a very small sample size and I dont know how many batches of the acetoxy ester he made. Perhaps the tremor could have come from a trace impurity, or from the trippers inadvertently consuming MAOs before their trip.
 
However, I dont think he noted any qualitative differences in the mental/psychedelic aspects of the experience (as opposed to the physiological effect of the tremor), and the main difference seemed to be that of potency, which I can believe, because the shit could get broken down.

In the reports in Tihkal I see substantial qualitative differences. In both cases the acetate ester is is being compared to a relaxing sedative like alcohol or GHB.

I just dont think that the qualitative psychedelic effects would be very different between the two unless the acetate ester is not hydrolyzed before the compound hits the brain (or unless some of the metabolites are also psychoactive).

Or unless some other conversion takes place in the gut before the esterase gets to it.

The entries in his book constitute a very small sample size and I dont know how many batches of the acetoxy ester he made. Perhaps the tremor could have come from a trace impurity, or from the trippers inadvertently consuming MAOs before their trip.

Sure but thats all pure speculation on your part.
 
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I agree on the comments about needing a scale. I was foolish about my dosing early in my research days and I got my ass kicked a few times. A couple close calls healthwise as well.

I know of one specific time when I received 200mg more than I ordered on a 500mg order. That's quite a discrepancy. Not only that, but the material ordered, 5-MeO-MiPT, has an extremely steep dose/response curve.
 
i just cringe that i just won't ever be able to test miprocin after the damn bust !!! psilocybin and iprocetin/acetin have always been my favourites tryps. this mirpocin must be an absolute MUSt for ppl like me from what i've read so far, too bad, it's just not fair i can't get it anymore :X :X
 
Yeah, you need a scale. Miprocin is one drug I would not want to screw around with. Just 12mgs felt like I ate a high dose of mushooms, and 20mgs of the Acetate ester made me feel like I had taken a massive dose of mushrooms.
 
A number of PEA's and tryptamines that are commonly referred to as RC's actually do have some significant research behind them, though nothing near the biggies like LSD, MDMA etc. AMT and AET were explored in pharmaceutical R&D as antidepressants, and 2C-D was explored extensively by Leuner in psychiatric research, as were 4-HO-DET and its phosphate. It appears that Leuner and colleagues ran some neurotoxicology studies in addition to studying subjective effects. This research is hard to find in the published English literature, though.

2C-B is a good example of a chemical that's in the borderland between "mainsteam, tested drug" and (so-called) "research chemical". There have been a few studies and quite a number of anecdotal reports. We don't know how safe 2C-B really is, but we do know that no one dies from taking an average dose. We also see few if any accounts of long-term users developing problems, though there have been no longitudinal studies. As the saying goes, absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. Actually, I do know of an individual who twice developed worrisome signs of dopamine depletion after taking a single dose of 2C-I and 2C-D; this went away after a few weeks, but still. (Link .)

But yeah, we really don't know the long-term effects of most so-called RC's, and we can't assume that minor changes in the molecule won't affect toxicity. Obviously minor changes can dramatically affect activity, e.g. adding two little methyls to a tryptamine's N-substituents: 5-MeO-DMT --> 5-MeO-DET or 5-MeO-MiPT. If activity can be so strongly changed by a little tweaking, such that a compound goes from being orally inactive to orally active, then its toxicity can certainly change too. An even better example is DPT --> DiPT, where the number of carbons stays the same but the points of attachment to the N are just rearranged a little.

It's probably smartest, if one is going to use psychedelics, to stay with time-tested one like shrooms, LSD and cacti. Personally, I think that 4-HO-MiPT is probably just as safe as 4-HO-DiPT, which is probably just as safe as 4-HO-DET, which is probably just as safe as psiilocin. I say that because, apart from some variation in potency, there isn't much subjective evidence of the compounds acting differently. But that's just a moderately educated guess.
 
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Although I have little to no chemistry background, it does seem reasonable to assume that these compounds, although synthetic, are derivatives of tried and true substances such as mescaline (the phenythalimine family, etc) and in 4-Ho-Mipt is concerned the tryptamine family of LSD, etc.

However, each of these derives have displayed marked differences in effects, duration, as well as the differences in individual brain and body chemistry that clearly play a significant role in how these substances effect humans. So In my opinion (although you must realize I'm largely talking out of my ass) most of these substances should be as safe as moderate usage of your average run of the mill psychedelic. But in reality, you still must accept that you are making yourself a guinea pig when experimenting with any new chemical.

The brain is a complex thing, and psychedelics are probably the most complex and unpredictable psychoactives known; so one must keep this in mind at all times.
 
Agree, sub-di, though it should be pointed out that the 2C's are a bit "further away" from mescaline than the synthetic 4-HO's are from psilocin, since the ring positions in the 2C's are actually rearranged. Generally speaking, from a pharmacological POV, shifting ring positions around tends to signify a greater change than messing with the length of alkyl subsituents.

Shulgin points out something to the effect that the 2C's have the same ring substitution pattern as 6-hydroxy-dopamine, a potent neurotoxin. (Another name for 6-hydroxy dopamine is 2,4,5-trihydroxy-phenethylamine.) Mescaline has the 3,4,5 pattern. Pending further study, I'd rank the 4-HO's a bit higher on the "probable safety" scale than the 2C's. Again, just a guess.
 
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Dave Woodmont said:
6-hydroxy-dopamine, a potent neurotoxin. (Another name for 6-hydroxy dopamine is 2,4,5-trihydroxy-phenethylamine.)

I remember seeing this available on an old chem supply site before the bust. Do you know for a fact it is a neurotoxin? The stuff I saw may have been different, but if I remember correctly it was 6-HO dopanine. If you have a site that explains more about how this stuff is neurotoxic, I'd enjoy learning more about it.

on the topic of 4-HO-MiPT, did anyone ever store this stuff for a long period of time? how fast did it lose potency (if it did)? What are everyone's thoughts on this chem?
 
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