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The Big and Dandy 4-AcO-DMT Thread

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I tried this gem again last weekend. My first experience was 34 mg, but not all that intense ... there was some definite tolerance in the way. This time (with no tolerance) I settled on 25 mg oral + 4-5 mg insufflated 45 minutes later. It was much, much more intense than my first trial.

Three friends also tried it with me. One took 25 mg oral and had a 2 hr blackout, in which he curled up in a bed and mumbled nonsense to himself. He had absolutely no recollection of the 2 hours. Another took 20 mg and was also in for more than he'd bargained for. Last friend took the same dose as me and was tripping hard, but fine.

At times I found communication difficult, but not impossible ... pot accentuated this difficulty. It was amusing to attempt to communicate during the peak. The two friends that took the lower doses freaked out for the first 2-3 hours of the trip. I was playing a Bob Marley documentary, which I became completely absorbed in, to try and entice the other two out of their rooms and out of their "bad trips". Finally they got comfortable and enjoyed the trip. I haven't talked to them about it since so I'm curious to know what happened the first few hours and what they thought about the rest of the trip. I think they had been pretty high and drunk when they started the trip, which is probably a big factor. I almost never drink and usually don't smoke at least until the trip is coming on.

The trip seemed to take on a much more introspective tone than I'd expected. My last few trips (LSD and DOx) have been very analytical/philosophical, but during this one, my focus seemed to drift back to my family and issues in my life. I felt very strong feelings of empathy and love, which I'm trying to carry over to my break at home from school. 4-aco-dmt is great material. After this experience, I must lower my recommendations for dosage ... 25 mg apparently can be too much for some people.
 
I’ve had three trials with this one so far and I’m blown away. I started with an 18mg oral dose, then combined 16mg with 8mg 4-HO-Dipt a week later, and finally combined 18mg with 8mg 4-Aco-Mipt just last weekend.

I hope I can add at least a little to what others have been saying.

After the first experience it’s clear that 4-Aco-DMT makes all the other characters in my tryptamine collection pale in comparison. It is by far the friendliest, easiest and most versatile. I hate to say it but it’s almost like ‘psychedelic cotton candy’ in the way it just melts into your psyche during comeup. Like others have said, the comeup is actually relaxing. CEV’s appear first (rotating kaleidoscope images with eyes), then OEV’s (multi-layered auras, patterns, music-driven shifting colors, huge arcs of energy) at about 45mins. Suddenly music becomes very euphoric. Then it gets DEEP.

It also seems to be a great ‘helper’ for the other tryptamines when combined, like it actually aids them in coming on and showing their true spirit. Hard to explain. It’s kind of like introducing a shy friend of yours around the party, 4-Aco-DMT takes it’s brother tryptamines by the hand and introduces them to your mind in a much more friendly and direct way than before.

Both combinations were spectacular but different. It’s like pushing exactly all the right buttons to connect to god. I was reminded just how very deep and complex reality is, how we are normally so bound up in ignorance that we’re not even aware of it, and that someone else is entirely in charge. Any concept that man has given to god over the millennia is completely inadequate, yet during these experiences I was given absolute access to god. It lives within us all. There is so much going on behind the scenes of our everyday lives and I feel like I understand those things so much better now. Especially after integrating and re-tripping a week later. Where will our ever-evolving brains take us next?

It was very easy to meditate to music for hours, very touching and reflective. I also went outside for a hike after the peak each time. My hearing was quite amplified and the mountains around my house seemed so different, steeper with the scary impression of a swirling vortex down in the valley that I could hear. People’s houses looked extraterrestrial. I also talked on the phone with no problem and had animalistic sex with my trip sitter.

I plan on combining this one with 4-HO-Mipt and/or 4-Aco-Dipt in the future. Then maybe a PEA. After a long enough break to integrate the first experiments!
 
Has anybody tried this with an MAOI yet? I just got back from an ayahuasca retreat in Peru (report to come soon) where I took ayahuasca 5 times and it completely blew away everything I have ever tried before.

It sounds like this could be a great compound for 'pharmahuasca'. I have only tried 4-AcO-DMT once in a low dose but my interest is greatly renewed as it seems to be the best orally active DMT analogue yet. For those with high dose ayahuasca experience, how does this compare? Is there any reason to believe that 4-AcO-DMT would be any less safe to combine with an MAOI then N,N DMT or psilocybin?

I was thinking that smoking syrian rue could be a good way to titrate the MAOI dose. I think I'd want to start slow as with the ayahuasca it was off the deep end and without the shaman and the supportive ceremonial environment I don't know how things would have turned out.
 
Dondante said:
I tried this gem again last weekend. My first experience was 34 mg, but not all that intense ... there was some definite tolerance in the way. This time (with no tolerance) I settled on 25 mg oral + 4-5 mg insufflated 45 minutes later. It was much, much more intense than my first trial.

Three friends also tried it with me. One took 25 mg oral and had a 2 hr blackout, in which he curled up in a bed and mumbled nonsense to himself. He had absolutely no recollection of the 2 hours. Another took 20 mg and was also in for more than he'd bargained for. Last friend took the same dose as me and was tripping hard, but fine.

At times I found communication difficult, but not impossible ... pot accentuated this difficulty. It was amusing to attempt to communicate during the peak. The two friends that took the lower doses freaked out for the first 2-3 hours of the trip. I was playing a Bob Marley documentary, which I became completely absorbed in, to try and entice the other two out of their rooms and out of their "bad trips". Finally they got comfortable and enjoyed the trip. I haven't talked to them about it since so I'm curious to know what happened the first few hours and what they thought about the rest of the trip. I think they had been pretty high and drunk when they started the trip, which is probably a big factor. I almost never drink and usually don't smoke at least until the trip is coming on.

The trip seemed to take on a much more introspective tone than I'd expected. My last few trips (LSD and DOx) have been very analytical/philosophical, but during this one, my focus seemed to drift back to my family and issues in my life. I felt very strong feelings of empathy and love, which I'm trying to carry over to my break at home from school. 4-aco-dmt is great material. After this experience, I must lower my recommendations for dosage ... 25 mg apparently can be too much for some people.
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I took 24mg at a psy party. Based on reports here and friends experiences this seemed an appropriate dose. It whacked me over the head and kicked my ass! I spent the majority of time in a deep, deep trance state where I experienced very intense visions. It was alternate between "brain movie" sorts of things.. where I sort of revisited things from my past, and rather astounding psychedelic imagery. I would associate feelings with some of the zooming patterns. Some were very pretty and made me happy.. then a slight color shift or something would happen and the pattern would disgust me. It was really quite bizarre.

It was intensely introspective, memories would surface that were so "real" and vivid it was like watching film from past events in my life... but far more intense than that, it seemed as if I was actively involved with the memories.

I kinda-sorta had a rough time for the first couple hours, mostly because I was not prepared for such intensity. I settled into it after a while, but had problems getting around outside as I was so fucked up and I was getting wet and cold from the grass so I ended up missing out on good portion of the event.

I also smoked a reasonable amount of quality cannabis too though.

I'm not sure this drug is for me though, all things considered.
 
Excellent compound. Earlier tonight I prepared 15mgs for IM injection. I began with 3mg (20 units) to test the waters. By t+30 I was at a +1 and decided to go with 5 more mgs IM. There was minor hand tremor during the onset but no real anxiety. I emptied the remaining 7mgs into a soda that I drank over a period of an hour, the high from which blended seemlessly with the established trip. By T+90 lush open-eye visuals crawled the walls in interstitial clock-gear, Mayanesque tessellations. At the peak I was at, let's say +2.5. Emotionality was/is heightened along with a sense grand harmony and effortlessness to the world. Other than economy and perhaps a slight hedonic superiority IM administration is pretty much like oral. 5mgs was insufflated about an hour ago but feels like less due the rapid development of tolerance. I've regained the good feelings and pleasant tryptamine background hum, but the visuals are gone. This stuff feelings very clean, I'm sure in a double-blind test it would be indistinguishable from the normal mix of chems in mushrooms. Conversation in here has me wanting to take it further tonight, but its already late and a damn Tuesday... somehow if I do more I don't think I'll regret it.
 
At the peakish area of a 4-AcO-DMT trip I smoked some DMT and the effects of the 4-AcO-DMT seemed to just be extentuated by the DMT, but the nature of the effects really didn't seem to change at all.

Also, the manner in which it hit me was odd. I hadn't eaten for 8+ hours. I started to feel tingly at about 20 minutes. And then at around 40 after some slight nausea/ gagging reflexes, It jsut hit me and I instantly noticed visuals where minutes before there was nothing noticeable.
 
The "helper" theory is very interesting, santadog. I may try that next time.

4-AcO-DMT is indeed a gem. Psychedelic come-ups have been easy for me lately, but 4-acO-DMT is by far the easiest one of all. It's nothing but pleasurable, even when reality begins to break down intensely. It seems to allow a very easy and natural connection with the [insert word describing the divine], and breaks down the ego extremely efficiently.

Dondante, I can't believe you took 34mg and didn't have much happen the first time you tried it! I tried it at 30mg and then 25mg most recently, and both times I blacked out before the peak for around 2 hours. I was alone so I have no idea what I did, but it happened both times while I seemed to be sliding through psychedelic tunnels with different egoes at the end of each. It didn't feel like blacking out though. I kind of think that it's just so effective at shutting down the ego that I need to adjust my dosage and strategy.

Also, I wanted to summarize the 25mg experience I mentioned a couple of days ago in this thread. As I mentioned, I blacked out at some point as the world was falling apart and bending, and came to 2 hours later, in the middle of a very profound experience where my ego was starting to come back, not because my ego was afraid, but because the universal consciousness I had woken into was. I (as "god") was desperately wishing to re-enter the dream because it was so horribly lonely in the void. I was filled with worldless emotions and concepts that amounted to wishing desperately to be back in the illusionary universe. 0-dimensional space is boring, especially when time doesn't exist. Then after probably about a second of existential panic, my ego kicked itself in a bit and started consoling me, telling me that soon I would be just fine and back to the things that I love. Then a second later, the 4-acO-DMT would surge back and I'd once again realize, with a sinking sensation, that my ego was an illusion. This cycle went on for about 15 minutes until my ego was generally winning, although I'd fall into the spiral again lightly here and there. About 45 minutes later I was on the plateau, totally back in my head but enjoying a great afterglow. Interestingly, despite the deep psychological fear I felt, there was absolutely no sensation or thought of panic, which was excellent and kept the situation well under control.

It was a really interesting experience, to say the least. It gets me thinking that I need to try it again at a lower dose to try to avoid total ego death. After several important ego deaths, I became of the opinion that partial, especially near-total ego death is much more useful and memorable than complete ego death, since total ego death is mutually exclusive with memory.

I re-assert that 4-AcO-DMT seems to share more similarities to DMT than to mushrooms.
 
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Xorkoth said:
I (as "god") was desperately wishing to re-enter the dream because it was so horribly lonely in the void. I was filled with worldless emotions and concepts that amounted to wishing desperately to be back in the illusionary universe.
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I have been in EXACTLY the mindstate you describe. I was on 4 HBWR seeds + syrian rue. I prayed to be back in the dream. At that moment I couldn't imagine EVER forgetting what I knew and was literally begging to be put back 'asleep'. I felt I had taken a bite from the tree of knowledge of good and evil and somehow 'cheated' and in that moment I had a whole new take on the Garden of Eden story (which IMO in its modern form is a likely complete perversion hiding the 'true' allegorical meaning). It was a very difficult experience, but here I am, one 'blue pill' later back in the 'dream' : )

One difference I would describe is that the trip was entirely mental. Some of the strongest trips of my life have been from 4 HBWR seeds and 2-3 00 capsules of powdered syrian rue seeds. Although there is almost no visual aspect to the trip (except for sometimes seeing stars over layed in the top of my visual field like I'm travelling in a star ship etc). I can only imagine a similar experience with the intense visuals of 4-AcO-DMT! On the most intense of these HBWR trips I remember things got too intense and it was like there was a decision from 'space' to pull me out for a minute. It was as if a mask literally came off and I was aware of my 'true self' as not contained in the body but being projected into it ('an eternal thing fastened to the body of a dying animal) from a place in the stars and then I had no more fear for the physical body.

Other trips without the syrian rue definitely were missing a large element and I think the Harmala and Harmaline (telepathine) were a KEY component (especially after my ayahuasca experiences in the amazon) and look forward to reinvestigating those alkaloids with 4-AcO-DMT although I would like to see a few other reports with this compound + MAOI and gain more experience with 4-AcO-DMT on its own before I jump in head first.
 
^^ This was the second time I've been to that mindstate. The first was with 2C-E, except that was much, much more terrifying and hellish. It was my second +4, peak experience. Since I've been there before, though, this more recent experience was easier to handle and is not what I would consider +4 material.

I truly hope I can one day have the chance to take ayahuasca in a setting like you describe. I've had the materials for over a year, but I feel it would be a bad idea to take it and sit around ere in my usual setting.
 
^^ It would DEFINATELY be a bad idea in MY opinion. Although everyone is different. If you've already been to hell and back, you could probably handle but it wouldn't be the same experience. The set and setting provided by the location of the amazon with no electricity (for 9 days), pitch darkness and a master shaman singing icaros can never be replicated by sitting in your house, in a city by yourself. Its a different world for sure.

I also took San Pedro while I was in Peru and that is a totally different story. I wouldn't think twice about taking San Pedro in my normal setting and would recommend it to most people on this board who are responsible users. Ayahuasca on the other hand, is something I wouldn't recommend for everybody, only the most serious users and not alone at least not in the strength I had.

I'm really looking forward to seeing how close I can get the ayahuaca space with 4-AcO-DMT. I'm sure in total darkness and with the right dose I could probably get close. I'll be sure to report back when I get a chance to experiment. I even think 2C-E in darkness could be close to ayahuasca as they both have a reputation for being both highly visual and often 'difficult'. I will start a new thread on my ayahuasca experiences though, as I don't want to take this one off track...
 
Well, I haven't tried oral DMT yet, but I do find 4-AcO-DMT to be more like DMT than psilocybin. It wouldn't surprise me if it turns out to have an ayahuasca-esque effect.
 
I would take 4-aco-DMT or mushrooms over Ayahuasca any time. Pure DMT, both in its oral maoi activated form and smoked is too much of a sensory and hyperdimensional assualt. You are shown too much and at too rapid of a pace. The result is fear and disorientation in strong doses.

Shrooms will dissolve your ego gradually, at least giving you a chance to come to terms with your impending death. 4-aco-DMT seems even more gentle. I believe both these substances lend their journeys to better insight and contemplation, and life lessons in general because they give your brain a chance to catch up with your soul.

Furthermore oral DMT is just too freakin creepy. I can't think of any other drug that makes so many damn eyeballs pop out of thin air. I don't mind entities and "life-forces"... I even experience these on LSD, like some angel is hovering right over my shoulders or something. But goddamn all those DMT eyeballs, that's just creepy.

4-aco-DMT differs from ayahuasca significantly to me. First of all, the "trances". Both will give you trances. But 4-aco-DMT is relaxing and smooth sailing beauty. Aya knocks your ass into a trance and then 1000000 gods rape you in the asshole. The former is much more useful and enjoyable for me.

Then the visuals. 4-aco-DMT is just beautiful. Really, right up there with the classics: Shrooms and LSD. But, sparkly. Like everything is painted with glitter paint in super high resolution. It's unique, a bit less organic in appearance then shrooms, but really beautiful, almost a bit more towards the "cosmic" end of the spectrum where LSD lies.

Aya is just crazy freakin visuals. Eyeballs, rivers in the floor, all kinds of entities and weird shit goin on. Things change appearance between levels of dimension. Things levitate quite easily. Anything that looks remotely organic to begin with will grow/die/rebirth/grow/die in a cycle and take on quite a life of its own. More "organic" than shrooms but also a bit towards the "alien" end of spectrum. (Salvia is there too, yet very different)

Then the body buzz. 4-aco-DMT is relaxing, feels so good for a psychedelic! Really, who could ask for more. You feel the god-energy flowing through you, your heart rate isn't even elevated, its great.

Aya is outta control in this aspect. It can go from relaxing one minute to feeling like you grabbed a live power line the next minute. And of course this intense shocking buzz is linked to your psychological and visual state, which only exascerbates PANIC!

.... 4-aco-DMT over Ayahuasca any day.
 
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I just chopped a lot of repetitive stuff out of here, and this thread is back down to a smallish size. I guess we're gonna need more experimenters to post their thoughts here! =D
 
Anybody with experience with alternate methods of administration? Oral seems to work very well, but I am interested in a more immersive/short experience.

I would guess that IV 4-Aco-DMT would be VERY similar to DMT. 8o
 
I was wondering how it would be when smoked last night. Has anyone given that a try? I'll be trying it at 20mg orally next time I get a chance. I'm hoping 20mg is low enough that I won't black out for the first two hours 8(
 
Xorkoth said:
I was wondering how it would be when smoked last night. Has anyone given that a try?
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Yeah, I've been wondering this as well. I forget if it was mentioned ealier in the thread, its been so long... I think I remember that because it is a fumurate salt, it would not be smokable. Alhough I don't actually have a clue what I'm talking about when it comes to chemistry. I am interested to see if it would vaporize. I'm scared shitless of 5-MeO-DMT, but if this would vaporize perhaps it would have a similar effect as N,N DMT and could serve as a more readily available replacement.
 
Xorkoth said:
I was wondering how it would be when smoked last night. Has anyone given that a try? I'll be trying it at 20mg orally next time I get a chance. I'm hoping 20mg is low enough that I won't black out for the first two hours 8(
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This might be obvious but smoking the fumerate salt is a waste.

40mg feels like 5mg orally. and tastes like a mothball. I'm a dumbass for even trying it without converting it to freebase.

Now, how *that* works, I'm kinda curious.. I suspect oral ingestion will still be the way to go though.
 
So who is gonna be the first to either swallow or IV 100mg and report back? Me, perhaps?
 
part of the TIHKAL entry for 4-HO-DMT, my bold:
(with 12 mg phosphate ester, intramuscularly) "This is strong. There were a lot of wild images in about two hours, and I thought that the day would never end. At about six hours I knew it would, but in fact in the evening I took 100 milligrams of seconal which allowed me to drift into a fine sleep. The next day I was fine."

(with 3 mg phosphate ester, intravenously) "The effects are immediate (in 30 seconds) and I did not have the time to build up any worry -- it was simply too fast. In about an hour I was back where I started from."

(with 12 mg phosphate ester, intravenously) "I had had eight milligrams earlier, with a very good reaction. Here, today, I feel that everything has disintegrated, and I am extremely anxious. I am very confused."
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