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  • AADD Moderators: swilow | Vagabond696

Latest DEA Microgram report

although dentist did use mercury for fillings up until 20 or so years ago

And they still do.

Some mercury compounds are quite stable such as the Mercuric Sulphide aka cinnabar. Although cinnabar is listed as very toxic, it was once regarded as an important remedy in Chinese medicine and is still prescribed in some places for treatment of mouth ulcers.

Dental amalgams generally use a formula that produces what's regarded as a fairly stable amalgam, although controversy is still high on just how safe these fillings are.


From Wiki

After widespread adoption and wildly varying standards, the multitude of formulas for making amalgams were standardised into the gamma-2-phase amalgam formula in 1895.

The gamma-2-phase amalgams contain approximately equal parts 50% of liquid mercury and 50% of an alloy powder containing:

* > 65% silver (Ag)
* < 29% tin (Sn)
* < 6% copper (Cu)
* < 2% zinc (Zn)
* < 3% mercury (Hg)

Around 1970, the ingredients changed for manufacturing cost reasons to the new non-gamma-2 form. The gamma-2-free amalgams (sometimes referred to as "high-copper" amalgams) contain approximately equal parts 50% of liquid mercury and 50% of an alloy powder containing:

* > 40% silver (Ag)
* < 32% tin (Sn)
* < 30% copper (Cu)
* < 2% zinc (Zn)
* < 3% mercury (Hg)

While I believe that measured serum levels of mercury have been associated with Hg amalgams, I think that for most people this is not a problem. Mercury amalgam fillings certainly last longer than the newer synthetic composite types.

While orally consumed mercury metal is quite toxic, bioavailability would be lower than with soluble ionic forms. I'm not completely sure, but Mercury is also possibly methylated by bacteria in the colon. If so, this would present other problems as methylmercury is extremely toxic.

The difference with Hg as used in the MDMA process is that it's in an ionic form which is quite soluble (cinnabar -HgS - by comparison is practically insoluble and therefore much less toxic). The 2+ charge of the mercury II ion (Hg2+) allows it to be easily transported across the stomach and intestinal epithiliumin into the blood stream (bioavailability is ~15-20% ) where it will then concentrate in organs such as the liver and brain.

The aluminium used in the MDMA synth amalgam would be far less of a concern health wise.
 
oh cheers for clearing that up!

i have heard things like smoking things off aluminium will give you alziemers (sp?) down the track. so i assumed that if it was used in md** production it would also been bad.
 
But how can you tell, would the mercury show up in police busts of pills if they test them?

To properly test for mercury, a process such as Inducitvely coupled plasma / mass spectrometry (ICP-MS) or Atomic absorption spectrometry (AAS) is required. ICP-MS can determine mercury to ~0.001ppb

I'm not sure whether most forensic labs doing only drug analyses would have this equipment, although environmental analytical labs do. For a lab project at Uni, we measured Hg levels in samples of marine species.

I would really like to know why dutch people/chemists seem to be prolific in MDMA production?

From US Customs Today

..."What Colombia is to cocaine, the Netherlands is to MDMA," a synthetic drug specialist with the Dutch Intelligence Service noted on Dutch television in 1995.

I believe this is probably due to a few reasons. One factor would be ease of distribution, Amsterdam being a bit like the hub of Europe and Rotterdam being one of busiest sea ports in the world. From the mag article listed below, it was stated that most E's coming into the UK went through the port of Rotterdam.

As most people know, Amsterdam was and still is a place frequented by drug using Tourists, and from a relatively early period, the city hosted large "acid house" and dance related parties.

Precursor availability also played a significant role, as neighboring countries often had no or little precursor regulation even when Holland did. The Russian mafia were said to play a big part in supplying MDP2P, with one article stating the organisation had supplies to last decades. Availability of this chemical was deemed largely responsible for the massive resurgence in MDMA production seen around 1998-1999 (see UK Mixmag April 99; THE MITSIBISHI STORY; The real story of the pill that's rescued clubland).

There's some interesting info on the pre 2000 Ecstasy scene in the Netherlands in this Erowid hosted article:

Ecstasy use and policy responses in the Netherlands by Spruit I.P, Journal of Drug Issues, 1999; 29(3):653-678
 
Did you all read the section on the Computer hard drive protection? I found that quite interesting. Does anyone have any knowledge of using this?
 
phase_dancer said:
So, before deciding the MDMA you have is a pure form of a benign drug, stop and think about what else could be there. As I firmly believe it would be an effective deterrent, I would like to see figures relating to such impurities listed on Aus. forensic profiling reports.

I agree this would be a very good deterent for those who use the drug far too prevalently in particular.

Would the type of examination methods you mentioned earlier that would test for compounds such as mercury be present in the testing that is being suggested for pill testing in Australia?

Also just out of curiosity what sort of effects, if any did you perceive after inhaling that mercury vapour in your youth?
 
Would the type of examination methods you mentioned earlier that would test for compounds such as mercury be present in the testing that is being suggested for pill testing in Australia?

In relation to ion mobility scanning, unfortunately the answer is no. afaik, there are some chemical and immunoassy tests but these are either impractical outside of a lab, require expensive equipment, or lack sensitivity. Another type of test - potentiometry - uses ionophores such 1,3-diphenylthiourea but may suffer from problems caused by particular ions produced during the test e.g. Hg(OH)+ I've also heard of a headspace analyser. I haven't much detail on it other than it's very sensitive and costs ~20K

Also just out of curiosity what sort of effects, if any did you perceive after inhaling that mercury vapour in your youth?

Black teeth, headaches and back pains (kidney) are what I remember being the worst effects, although a strange patch of silver hair popped up on my head over the following few months and that's still with me. At the time it was also reasoned that some of my rather erratic behavior as a teenager my have been influenced by Hg - that's my excuse anyway ;) My Hg levels remained above normal until I was well into my thirties. Last test I took I was on the high side of normal, as was my lead (Pb) level from working with lead-tin solders for many years. At least I'm now inside the bell curve....
 
Did anyone notice the source documents cited during the first microgram report.

It was a publication named "Journal of the Clandestine Laboratory Investigating Chemists Association".

Anyone happen to come across this. I am sure it would be a very interesting read indeed.
 
^
Do a google and it comes up with trillions of sites or referrals!
 
Man, I wanna buy a hundred pack of these baby's!

mg0906fig2.jpg
 
I'd be very surprised if those tablets still circulate the world since the producers got busted.
 
does the process using mercury need high temperatures for the reaction to take place? The reason I ask is that when we r testing mineral samples and the client requires that Hg be reported, we can't dry the samples above 85deg celcius otherwise the Hg can be lost. Does this only apply to metallic mercury?next time i get a pill i might get it analysed for Hg and Al by ICP and let u guys know what i find
 
Splatt said:
I'd be very surprised if those tablets still circulate the world since the producers got busted.
where did you read that?

Chronik Fatigue:
not everbody liked those pills, even heard a story about a dealer throwing away 300 of these. mcpp is strange %)

phase_dancer:
most labs in the Netherlands work with the leuckart method.
 
I remember it from the news a couple years ago. Those tablets contain mCPP and nothing else and quite a few were made.
 
mind said:
mcpp is strange %)

mcpp isnt that strange (there are alot more strange RCs out there), just need to get accustomed to it as a drug on its own, but not to replace or combine with mdma, each to their own though I guess.
 
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