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The Big & Dandy Oral DMT thread (Ayahuasca/Pharmahuasca)

Yeah the coca-cola thing is true. If you take DMT freebase it makes you throw your guts up, but if you throw it in half a pint of coca-cola and stir it then it makes a delightful fizzing sound presumably as the freebase is converting into the phosphate salt. You drink that and it's 100% nausea-free. And gives you the most gorgeous 90 minutes of your entire life. Like the best E and the best shroom trip you've ever had at the same time. Only a thousand times better, and no hangover whatsoever :)
 
And gives you the most gorgeous 90 minutes of your entire life.
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Very true--most intricate visuals I've ever had with any psychedelic. I didn't really have any nausea with my citrate salt, just a feeling of 'heaviness' in my body (I was very torpid, glued to the rug). Overall, it was so much better than smoked DMT. If I ever encounter DMT again, this is the only way I'd considering doing it.
 
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Ismene said:
Yeah the coca-cola thing is true. If you take DMT freebase it makes you throw your guts up, but if you throw it in half a pint of coca-cola and stir it then it makes a delightful fizzing sound presumably as the freebase is converting into the phosphate salt. You drink that and it's 100% nausea-free. And gives you the most gorgeous 90 minutes of your entire life. Like the best E and the best shroom trip you've ever had at the same time. Only a thousand times better, and no hangover whatsoever :)
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thats after maoi right?
 
Riemann Zeta said:
Very true--most intricate visuals I've ever had with any psychedelic. I didn't really have any nausea with my citrate salt, just a feeling of 'heaviness' in my body (I was very torpid, glued to the rug). Overall, it was so much better than smoked DMT. If I ever encounter DMT again, this is the only way I'd considering doing it.
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Yeah it's sheer heaven. Rippling beautiful intricate open eye visuals to the extent that you're just laid there going "Oh my fucking God" :)

I was half-expecting the nausea to come on at some point but it never did. The physical high was absolutely gorgeous too. Definately the way to experience DMT if you don't have any issues with maoi.

thats after maoi right?

Yep - moclobemide for me as caapi and rue give me nausea.
 
Malmoesoldier said:
What is the harmala extraction?. rue in a glas of water with salt in the fridge?:p

is it safe to take ginger together with rue, maybe that will help also?.
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From Dale Pendell's Pharmakognosis:

The easiest way to take harmel is to grind up three to five grams of seeds in a coffee grinder, put the powder in gel caps, and let your stomach extract the alkaloids. If you dislike being dyed yellow on the inside, it is easy toe xtract the alkaloids. The following method, modified from Hafenfratz, produces crystals of high purity.

Grind 100 grams of esfrand seeds. A coffee grinder is good for this job. Soak the seeds for several days in 300 ml of 3% acetic acid. A little arithmetic will tell you that 180 ml of white vinegar, which is 5% acetic, diluted with 120 ml distilled water gives you what you need. Squeeze out the seeds, and extract the mass again with another

100 ml of 3% acetic. A potato ricer with a strip of cheese cloth is effective. Combine the two extracts and elt them settle for 24 or 48 hours. Decant off as much f the clear solution as you can-it helps immensely with the filtering. If you don't have a Buchner funnel, a filter flask, and vacuum, the procedure will be a little slower-try to do as much as you can without decanting. THe more solid matter that can be removed at this stage, the easier will the subsequent precipitations. I filter it twice, about a hundred ml at a time, changing the filter papers when they clog.

Heat the filtered solution to near boiling, and stir in 90 grams of NaCl (salt). Don't use iodized salt. When the salt is dissolved, let the solution cool slowly-finish with 24 hours in the refrigerator. Both the harmine and harmaline will precipitate. Filter the precipitate and discard the filtrate.

Redisolve the precipitate in 150 ml of hot water and add another 25 grams of salt. Stir to dissolve the salt and let the solution col as before, and filter out the crystals. Repeat this step once or twice more to get long, clean, yellowish crystals. Sometimes there is a little insoluble gunk that filters with the crystals. It can be removed by filtering the hot harmel solution before adding the salt.

Average yields are about 3%. Dr. Alexander Shulgin kindly submitted one of my samples for analysis by GCMS, and it proved to be of high purity-(there was no viscine). The ratio of harmine to harmaline was about 2:1.

Hafenfratz has instructions for separating the harmine and harmaline, if you can't resist the lure of chemistry.
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But from Erowid (http://www.erowid.org/plants/syrian_rue/syrian_rue_extraction5.shtml):

Lemon Juice Method
The most common method for extracting harmala from Syrian Rue seeds is a simple boiling extraction. The hard seeds are preferably crushed either using a coffee grinder or smashing them in a plastic bag with a hammer and then boiled in a small amount of water with a little lemon juice added to acidify the water. After boiling for 30 minutes, the seed material is strained off and then filtered and the resulting yellowish liquid is the end product. A second and/or third extraction is usually performed on the same seed material in order to get more of the active compounds. The second extraction is often as darkly colored as the first and the third will still have the characteristic yellowish color. The liquid is often further boiled down to a smaller volume or evaporated off to form a powder.
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And no, I'm not crazy because I respond to ancient posts... I plan on doing this. Soon. To do my Oral DMT. But I think first I'll try it sans extraction and see what a purge feels like.
 
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For most people... try 300-350mg of Harmala extracted from the seeds via the manske technique... which is gonna be around 50% pure anyway.

I recommend to start with 75mg of DMT as others have here. For many people, it won't do almost anything, for some people it will blow them out of the water, as has already been communicated here.

(never take 5meo orally, it is potentially very dangerous to your mental health and possibly physical health!)

Some people will need 200mg, 300mg to even half a gram to have a full visionary experience. But also, if you are one of these people, you can also increase your MAOI dose as well!

I would consider 175mg to be a general, all round good dose, but have heard of people OD'ing on 60mg or so!

So, start small and go up from there!

if you go too big in the beginning, then you may be scared off!

Also, the ayahuasca vine has no body load if you are pure! i.e. you have done it a lot and it has cleaned you out! or you are just that way already! %) (which was not me btw!) but these days, I don't get nauseous for example and throwing up is just this transparent experience for the most part.

And also, the visuals with the vine will generally be sharper and richer and your experience may be deeper and more interesting... but it can take time for it to really kick in, in that you may need to do it a few times to get the effects you are looking for.

i.e. I have witnessed people on their third occaision of drinking, have a cup which has blown me to smithereens, have NOTHING happen to them, and their first occaisions of drinking cups of ayahuasca were the same. Whereas, then it works on the fourth occaison, the same as it did for me!

(also, nausea is often just part of the equation... you can't easily get out of it... when DMT works well, even with Moclebomide, you will sometimes get it... some people throw up from smoking DMT!)

You will need 50-150 grams of vine cooked up at least two times...depending on the strength of the vine... most of the stuff you can buy online is pretty top notch, and so 70 g's or so should be enough for most people... however, you really can't easily do too much vine... whereas, with the harmala extract, it is much easier to overdose and get undesirable effects...

One of the best ways to do this, is to drink the vine by itself... then wait 45 minutes and do the crystal. Although, the clearest visions I have had, have been with only 40 grams of psychotria viridis!

I have witnessed people have FULL ON psychedelic effects just from the vine... it is a very magical plant to say the least... that is not to say moclobemide and harmala extract have their virtues and interesting aspects.


Julian.
 
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>Foods to help it kick in?

bread dipped in olive oil is easy... but anything fatty works... also, try smoking ayahuasca vine...by itself or with herbs like passionflower to soften the smoke.

>Best way to avoid MAOI complications?

don't drink red wine or eat blue cheese within a 24 hour period either way.

on the day of taking, eat only museli or cereals or fruit. Have a big juice for lunch and take at night.

The MAOI risks are generally overrated and overstated by a long way.... largely just stay away from that red wine and blue vein cheese!

Also, I think it is best to avoid alcohol in general, either side of an ingestion of MAOI's.


Julian.
 
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easy way to do manske:

After soaking the 100 grams of seeds for a day or two with a tablespoon or so of vinegar, brew the seeds up twice on a slow simmer for a couple of hours each time.

strain seeds. simmer down your combined brew to 1 litre.

filter your liquid well. (a couple of hypoallergenic tissues on a sieve works well!)

let it sit for 24 hours and siphon off the top liquid with a turkey baster or pipette and leave the fine silty gunk behind!

add 100 grams of ordinary table salt which you have dissolved and concentrated into hot water...then add slowly...stirring. Then just put your rue seed brew in the fridge for a day or two... then there should be crystals which have formed on the bottom of the jar.

scrape them up on a small plate and let them dry... you will have about 3-8 grams normally, which will be about 50% pure... you can do a recrystallisation which is a bit more fiddly, but probably not worth it as your main impurity is only salt anyway, so I am told!
 
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So whats a good dose of moclobemide to make DMT orallly active?
 
whats safe to abort a ayahuasca trip with?

Just need to know what can be taken to dull the effects safely while on an MAOi
 
I don't think you really 'abort' an ayahuasca trip, I think you just wait for the effects to drop away. I would not ever attempt to combine an antipsychotic type compound with harmaline.
 
I would be very careful trying to combine any abortive drugs with an MAOI. I believe benzos and antipsychotics are both contraindicated. It would be best to just accept the trip and work with it. It's not too long anyway.
 
I wouldn't try combining anything with an MAOI, even moclobemide. The absolute peak of oral DMT only lasts 45-60 minutes so it's not like you need to panic.
 
what do you guys think about ready made ayahuasca kits. I have been wanting to try it for awhile and they have 6 types available . I was thinking about getting 2 or 3 kits and finding out what I like best . They say its enough for one trip and its only 20 bucks , so im gonna give it a go.
 
Oral DMT for the first time last night, at 60mg or so, took impure crystal that had oiled out, and there was too small an ammount to recrystallise without a bit of loss 4 teaspoons of harmala seed, diced up finely, taken about 3/4 hour before the DMT, dissolved in caffeine free soda.

Seeds were taken by the old toss-and-wash method.
I didn't feel any adrenergic side effects from the 4tsp of harmala taken in two divided doses,but I have been taking lorazepam at 2mg daily for a few days.

Took quite a bit of lorazepam as well to get to sleep after, but it was very relaxing, and more visual than anything else I have tried short of smoking DMT and Salvia.
No nausea and a fantastic trip
 
>what do you guys think about ready made ayahuasca kits.

Maybe good for starting out... but when you get more serious, you'll probably want to determine exact ratios and find plants you like using the best.


Julian.
 
Cosmic Charlie said:
what do you guys think about ready made ayahuasca kits. I have been wanting to try it for awhile and they have 6 types available . I was thinking about getting 2 or 3 kits and finding out what I like best . They say its enough for one trip and its only 20 bucks , so im gonna give it a go.
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Some kits just have caapi in them, make sure it's got something with DMT in it too. But I'd imagine selling a preparation of a DMT containing plant for human use is illegal.
 
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