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alasdairm said:
most hands i've played tonight involve 7 or 8 out of a table of 10.

so i adjust my game - raising more pre-flop to put these people out. then i'll have something half-decent like, say, J/10. then the flop will come 224 and somebody playing an A/2 (just because they have an ace) catches trips. i'm somewhat pot-committed and end up just taking a bigger hit.

First of all, you should almost never be raising JT(even suited) in a NL game. That's a checking/calling hand. I'd rather have A 2 OS than JT suited pre-flop(they're near even, just personal preference), so you really can't blame the person you mentioned for staying in. No offense, but If I knew my opponent was raising hands like JT pre-flop, I would be calling raises w/ ace rag everytime as well.

Second of all, if 7 or 8 people are calling every hand in a NL game pre-flop (even if there are no raises pre-flop), and also calling most pre-flop raises with borderline hands, then the blinds are much too low/the stakes are much too low for any type of coherent strategy. The only real strategy you could hope to employ here is to wait for the top level hands (AK, AA, KK, etc.), and then raise HEAVY, and continue betting heavy on the flop (if you didn't push all in pre flop) and hope someone didn't stay in for your orignal huge bet and get lucky. If more than a couple people call, odds are you're going to lose the hand anyways. That's micro-NL hold em online in a nutshell, unfortunately.

As you can see, that's not much strategy and not much fun either. If you plan on employing any kind of strategy that you would in a real life game, then you need to up the stakes immediately. If you don't have the bankroll for this, then you have a couple options.

1) Continuing playing in these micro-limit type games and hope for the best (you may as well buy a lotto ticket).

2) Get some scratch together and come back with a large stack in much higher stakes where you can fully execute proper NL strategy.

3) (My suggestion and what I did to build a decent bankroll) - Start playing the highest LIMIT hold em game that you can afford. If you're not experienced w/ limit hold em, then I recommend you read David Sklansky's "Hold em for advanced players". If you have a basic understanding of hold em and are intelligent enough(you are), then you will have no problem synthesizing everything in this book and putting it to use right away. The book is considered by some to be "dry" at times, but if you are interested in making serious money playing poker, then it is well worth it.

As much as this book will help you online(it helps loads), it will help you even moreso in live limit hold em casino games(the most common type of casino poker today). If you read this book, and practice online for a few months, you'll be ready to go to casinos on friday and saturday nights and absolutely CLEAN UP from the drunks and hold your own with the sharks. I encourage all of my friends to invest time in learning how to play limit hold em the right way as there is much more money to be made in limit than NL, but few listen. I don't understand why. I guess because NL is always on TV and everyone wants to be like the pros? The easy money is with the rich and/or drunk guys sitting at limit tables at casinos on the weekends, but I digress.

Once you build a big enough bankroll in limit (or thru other methods), then you can start playing true NL hold em online. At the higher stakes you will be able to use more advanced strategy and if you are a very good player, the profits can be overflowing.

Keys I've found to make money in NL(long term):

1) Always buy in for the maximum allowed buy in(I thank Super System for this bit of advice)
2) Whatever amount you buy in for, you should have at LEAST 10 times that amount of money remaining in your bank(preferably 15-20 times as much)

If you play on Pokerstars or UB( I think UB has it), you can play heads up matches. There is no possibility of collusion in these matches, and usually your opponents are fairly weak. The basic strategy you should use in NL heads up: If you aren't betting the pot, there should be a damn good reason for it. If you are calling a bet, there should be a gamn good reason for it. Follow that and you should make some money. The key(as in almost any kind of poker) is to get your opponent to frequently think "I have no fucking clue what he has". If you can do that, you're in the driver's seat.

Of course, you should take my ranting with a grain of salt. I've been playing hold em (limit and NL) for about 5 years, and while I'm no professional, I'm also not too bad either.

Another good poker resource:

http://forums.cardplayer.com/
 
Originally posted by HobbyIsBowling
First of all, you should almost never be raising JT(even suited) in a NL game.

lots of good advice but this doesn't take note of position which is, i find, probably the most important factor when deciding play (and is probably where most new(ish) players pay for their mistakes)

thanks for taking the time to write all that - very interesting.

alasdair
 
Originally posted by alasdairm
lots of good advice but this doesn't take note of position
Sure it does ;)

I would never raise JT suited from any position (unless maybe the game was extremely tight or short handed). It's just too likely someone else is limping w/ KJ, AJ, AT, KT(and would call your bet), or something like that, in which case if certain cards fall you are busted. No 100% right or wrong answer in NL, however.

Originally posted by alasdairm
thanks for taking the time to write all that - very interesting.

No problem, if you have any questions feel free to PM me.
 
Yeah, I'd agree. Unless you're prepared to carry a bluff all the way to the end, J/T is in no way a raise hand. Limp in or fold if it's raised.

Mind you, I'm a pretty tight player, although I'll bluff every time I think it'll go undetected. I don't play unsuited connectors, generally, unless they're J/Q minimum.

I really enjoy the live limit tables at the nearest casino. $3/$6 blinds with full kill. 1/2 hour hold'em, 1/2 hour omaha.

If you read this book, and practice online for a few months, you'll be ready to go to casinos on friday and saturday nights and absolutely CLEAN UP from the drunks and hold your own with the sharks.

Sadly the casino I play at will not serve more than 2 oz of alcohol per hour to anybody. In their words, "We're a casino - not a bar."
 
Always remember when playing a $3/$6 game or lower, though - as time goes by, the clear winner emerges. The rake.

It doesn't seem like a lot when they're skimming the pot each time, but it can be over $100 an hour going to the casino. If 11 people sit down with $100 each, at the end of five hours, $500 of that is gone from the players.
 
I know what stasis means.

I still don't understand why you posted that. Must be way over my head? *shrug*
 
I've been having a problem winning online lately, I have a good good hand, and seems like everytime I get beat. I have pocket kings, go all in, and dude who calls has pocket aces... :( it's been that way for a couple weeks now, I was up to 170 and now I'm back down to under 90 :(
 
Stasis is a long time board member.

I suspect he's thanking stasis for the pdf from page 2.
 
I need to specify what I was thanking him for? 8( Obviously somebody missed out.

Yes, the .pdf :)
 
I should probably add that I play on yahoo poker once or twice a weekend. Started out with $1000, now up to $3400+ (fake money). I'd like to play for real money through another site, but I'm just so leary about downloading shady software that I have to install in order to play.

Can anyone recommend good, spyware free sites?
 
BlueAdonis said:
Can anyone recommend good, spyware free sites?

I've never seen the source code so I can't 100% guarantee there's no spyware, but I've been using Pokerstars(www.pokerstars.com) for over 4 years and I've never had a problem with them or seen any signs of spyware, ever.

They have a good play money system also if you don't want to get a firepay/neteller account to play w/ real money (your CC/debit card is probably blocked on their site so you'll have to get around it w/ firepay/neteller).

I have some friends who play on partypoker and say that the site is full of complete chumps, but I feel the interface is much too clumsy and unprofessional-feeling for my taste.

I've also heard good things about ultimate bet(ultimatebet.com).
 
ultimate bet = too many pro's.

I play at absolute poker, like I mentioned earlier, it's a nice site, it has it's drawbacks, but the interface is really top notch.

If you are going to play for real money, your best bet is to play at partypoker because the deposit bonus' are easy to get, and are plentiful. You can make a living just depositing and withdrawing your cash from there.
 
Pokerstars usually matches partypoker's deposit bonuses, the standard is 20% of your deposit if you play a minimum number of hands with that money. Usually there's a deposit bonus about once a month on pokerstars.

You can tell which site I prefer =D
 
I don't play online anymore. Tried it for a bit. Lost interest, partly because of what I saw, but mostly because I prefer the real life feedback and find the online one sterile.

My day to day work is in complex simulations programming. Pattern recognition is part of my bread and butter.

I'm not gonna get into why I think the way I do. Invariably I get called a conspiracy theorist. But I believe the online sites, while not specifically geared to favour anybody, aren't completely random.

Casinos and crime have historically been heavily linked. Even now there's a major tie. One was busted locally for money laundering as recently as last year.

And yet it's funny how many people are willing to place their trust in, and actually strongly defend the honour of, a business that is located beyond prosecution and regulation.
 
Jean Valjean said:
^^you know, you could always rob three[x], and then itll be like you won!

;)

actually he paid for my buy-in, and still gave me that amount in cash when i got second.
 
HobbyIsBowling said:
Pokerstars usually matches partypoker's deposit bonuses, the standard is 20% of your deposit if you play a minimum number of hands with that money. Usually there's a deposit bonus about once a month on pokerstars.

You can tell which site I prefer =D

You prefer the site that breeds chasers.
 
Rusty Cage said:
You prefer the site that breeds chasers.

LOL are you trying to imply that people don't chase on party poker? I've played both sites extensively, and I would actually have to say people chase more on party poker, but that's just IME.

What stakes/game(NL or limit, cash games/sit n gos/tourneys etc.) did you play on pokerstars? Just curious.
 
Also, how is chasing a bad thing? Chasing indicates a bad player which means more profit in the long run.
 
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