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Morphine extraction from PS

DexterMeth

DexterMeth

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Joined
Oct 20, 2003
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Seemed like this subject was more fitting for this forum. In regards to Poppy seed tea. We all know it works...morphine being the main active component in question. I've tried doing an extraction with iso alc and was left with a very thick oil that was very unpure, and hardly worth the effort of the extraction process. Anyways what i am trying to get at, is if say 1lb of seeds is good enough to give someone a sufficient dose of morphine, could you not conclude that if one knew how to due a sophisticated extaction, they could get pure or very close to pure morphine out of the same batch>?

Bascially im trying to find out the possibility of extraction morphine/codiene/thiebine from the seeds...say i were to use 50lbs of seed...which i actually have access to at a very cheap price. I've already made tea hundreds of times...and recently have been doing extractions on say 2-3lbs, then reducing the volume of water down to almost not even a cup. If one were to completely evaporate the water..is there other steps after that one could take to futher purify the results...eventually getting a very pure and potent form of morphine/codiene mixture from this?

Any ideas at all? With the availability of 50lbs of seeds at SO cheap a cost, i would think if there was a way to do this, it would turn out to be VERY cost effective...considering 50lbs of seed is enough to 50 strong doses of tea to a non-tolerant subject.
 
I don't think this is allowed in ADD, I think it'll most likely get closed! :\

Anyway, I think I remember someone using lime (Calcium Hydroxide?) to extract the morphine over at www.poppies.org.

If I was you I'd go over there and search through their archives! :)
 
Extractions are ok to discuss. It's the synthesis of drugs that's not good to talk about here. I'm interested in this as well.

I've used 99% isopropanol for an extraction on the seeds and ended up with a very fluid brown gunk after evaporation. If there were an easy way to end up with something that would crystallize, that would be very good.
 
^Perhaps someone knows of the next step in purification after this iso alc/evap? ...since the resulting goo is hardly worth the time.
 
Can anyone comment on how well a standard acid/base extraction would work on a large number of seeds?
 
Well, as someone with some chemical background, what you might want to do is after obtaining the 1st extract (which I assume you obtained by basifying a water solution of your boiled poppy seeds and then extracting with a non-polar solvent and then evaporating the solvent), take it and dissolve it in a hot solvent that you think morphine might not be very soluble in and then cool it down (maybe stick in freezer for a few days) and see if crystals form. Crystal formation is a bitchy process though, as any chemist can tell you. Especially if you have a dirty mixture.

A 1901 paper by Puckner in the journal of the american chemistry society describes the crystallization of morphine from hot absolute Ethanol. The paper also talks about the efficiency of the extraction as well. I'm not gonna give the reference, but you can find it if you know how to get articles like that...

Other papers describe how industrial processes use massive ion exchange columns to extract the morphine (papers in the 50's in a different journal)

ahh, i love chemistry, its soo nifty.
 
cool

^Oh cool, i just happen to have a warehouse full of massive ion exchange columns! jk :p

Thanks for that info though. That's exactly what i was looking for. Now off to search the net.
 
You've got to be very canny about acid/base extractions for morphine, as most of the usual alkaline reagents don't work. This is because the phenolic OH group present in morphine will also react with sodium hydroxide to form a salt by replacing the H with an Na atom (phenols being very weak acids). To get it to work, you've got to use a weak alkali like ammonia soln, which isn't basic enough to foem a phenoxide like salt.


DexterMeth

If you've got ion-exchange resins (and know how to use them), you're laughing. You can use ion-exchange chromatography to extract any alkaloid, as long as you know the pKa/dissociation constant of the alkaloid.

I swear by the little amber buggers!
 
It's very cheap, but I could never get it to work. Also, it's quite embarrasing being asked by the clerk why i need all these seeds for. i just buy straight morph now.
 
^ Yeah, I figured there was a problem, but I couldn't figure what it was... I thought the nitrogen was going to be... gay... in some way... with the electrons, and the pi-orbitals and the aromatic sysmtems and whatnot.

(P.S. you're new avatar is scary, I liked the cat better)
 
Originally posted by BilZ0r
(P.S. you're new avatar is scary, I liked the cat better)


I agree! The cat suits you better :)
 
Hmm, there is a new method that supposedly renders poppy putty smokable and so then more pure, on poppies.org. It involves freezing your mixture. Might be helpful for this... do a search, purportedly it get's rid of the other plant alkaloids in the mixture and leaves the morphine and codeine.

Ahh I would love to experiment with poppy seed tea or add to the discussion but science makes me feel like a retard. Good-luck. Hopefully someone can post laymans term instructions if something new is found out.
 
^I know some who have tried the process you speak of, whithout much sucess. The poster for that method also talked about a simple extraction for an injectable product that seems absurd. Anyway, I don't think it's quite that simple...
 
This was the original source for the freezing method:

http://adh.2.forumer.com/index.php?showtopic=171

Maybe it will work with seeds as well. Don't grind them like you would pods, all the good stuff is on the outside of the seeds.

Another method would be: soak in water like when one makes tea. Evaporate till it is a sticky goo, don't let it get to dry, otherwise it will not dissolve in the next step. Or use the iceolater method. This will extract the alkaloids, sugars and peptides.
Dissolve in alcahol (methanol isopropyl etc.). This will make the sugars and peptides fall out as a withe fluffy powder, the alkaloids stay in solution. Let stand for a day and poor the clear liquid off and evaporate the alcohol to get your relative pure product.
 
The freezing method works really well.. I have made AMAZING smokable opium with this method.. you just have to watch it very closely as it freezes.
 
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