Steroid n00bs, Read this before posting.

Roger&Me

Bluelighter
Joined
Dec 8, 2004
Messages
23,526
Well, you've decided to take the plunge and start using Anabolic Androgenic Steroids (AAS). Here are some basic things you need to know:

STEROIDS ARE NOT MIRACLE DRUGS

Steroids have the ability to speed up protein synthesis, and allow you to get great muscle gains, however they are not, by any stretch of the imagination, miracle drugs. You still have to have a very good diet and training program to see results, as well as have a very good, well-planned cycle.

It's very important that you have a good grasp of proper diet, proper training, and have been training without steroids for at least a year. You shouldn't ever think of steroids as a quick way to get into shape, but more as a tool among many that you can use to help you achieve your physique goals.

STEROIDS ARE NOT FOR CHILDREN OR TEENAGERS

Steroids have very peculiar and most of the time dangerous effects on adolescents. Through aromatizing into estrogen, they cause the epiphysis (growth plates) to calcify (close) which will leave a person unable to grow any taller.

They also interrupt the hormonal balance of the body, and during puberty these hormones are very critical to proper body development, so please, if you are a teenager, especially one who is not yet done growing, please don't use steroids. Your natural testosterone production should be enough as to where you don't need it anyways to make good gains.

YOU HAVE TO INJECT

Though not all steroids are injectable, in order to run a proper steroid cycle you need to prepare to inject. There are multiple reasons for this.

The number one reason is that oral steroids are extremely hepatoxic, they are not kind at all to the liver, since they have to alkylated in order to avoid the first pass through the liver so that they are effective. Using only orals is a great way to destroy your liver for not very much gains.

Another reason is that you must include injectable testosterone as the base of your cycle. If you were to use only dht derivative steroids they would shut down your HPTA (Hypothalamus-Pituitary-Testes Axis) HARDCORE, and you would not produce any natural test so you would need to use synthetic injectable test either in the form of propionate, cypionate, enthanate, or suspension in order to have testosterone in your system.

Oral-only cycles are just too dangerous in comparison to the gains that they elicit therefore should always be discouraged.

YOU NEED TO HAVE A GOOD DIET

Yes, food should be your main anabolic; not steroids, not supplements, just plain old GOOD QUALITY food.

If you have not yet read this thread, then please do, read every attachment, and make sure that you thoroughly understand it, as it is very important.

YOU NEED HAVE A GOOD TRAINING PROGRAM

It's probably obvious that you need to train in order for your muscles to grow, but you never know, it's always good to reiterate it.

You need to push yourself in the gym and take all of your muscles to true failure. Here is a good workout program that was suggested by Sphinx:

training1010jb.jpg


YOU NEED TO FAMILIARIZE YOURSELF WITH THE STEROIDS THAT YOU'RE TAKING

here is a good resource that was written up by the Steroid Discussion moderator 5alphareductase:



Someone made a great recommendation and said that we needed a post that explains some of the usual names and abreviations for commonly known steroids.

First off we have testosterone, which can be with no ester, called testosterone suspension or testosterone no ester. It can come in either water (suspension) or in oil (no ester). It is called a suspension because the testosterone powder will not disolve in the water, it is only suspended in it. This means that you will have to shake up testosterone suspension before using it, to make sure that you get the correct concentration. Testosterone can also be with an ester, which is used to increase the active life of the drug and increase its lipid solubility. The longer the ester, the longer the active life and better the lipid (oil) solubility. Some common esters used with testosterone are propionate (3 day life), cypionate (5-6 day life), enanthate (6 day life), and deconate (10 day life). It is best to inject testosterone propionate at least every other day, cypionate and enanthate at least once a week but twice a week is better, and deconate every week. Since testosterone suspenion has no ester, its active life is very short and it should be injected at least every day, and some do twice a day shots. Testosterone products usually come in concentrations of 50mg/100mg/200mg/250mg per milliliter (ml). Some underground products though have come in concentrations up to 700mg per ml. There are also some products that combine testosterone esters to allow less shots, and a more even blood level. Some of these products are sustanon, durateston, and omnadren. They combine testosterone propionate, phenylpropionate, isocaporate, and deconate for a total concentration of 250mg per ml. These combination products are very popular, but they can also be expensive compared to one ester products unless you have a good source.

Next is nandrolone which is less androgenic than testosterone, but more anabolic. It usually comes as a product with two possible esters. The first ester is phenylpropionate, which has an active life of 4 days, but should be injected every other day. Nandrlone phenylpropionate can come come in concentrations from 25mg per ml to 200mg per ml. The next product, is nandrolone deconate, also known as deca. This is by far the most popular steroid among new users, but not the most effective at all. The deconate ester has a very long life and can be injected once a week. Nandrolone deconate can come in contrations from 50mg per ml to 200mg per ml, although some underground companies have a deca product that can be up to 500mg per ml. There is also a lesser known nandrolone cypionate, but the same recommendations for testosterone cypionate would follow.

Then there is equipoise, known as the chemical name boldenone. The undecylenate ester is the most commonly used with boldenone and is one of the longest used in modern steroids, so that means that the steroid has a very long active life. Equipoise could be injected once a week, or even less, but until recently it was usually injected every other day because it only came in a 25mg and 50mg per ml concetration in oil. Since equipoise is only a vetrinary steroid, there was no reason to make a more concentrated product. Some companies have now made an equipoise product that is 100mg/200mg per ml in response to bodybuilders needs. Some undergound companies have even made products up to 500mg per ml. This has made it possible to only inject equipoise once or twice a week to achieve a good doseage. Some underground companies have noticed that people liked equipoise, but they wanted a shorter acting product, so they started to make a boldenone acetate and boldenone propionate product. Theser products generally come in 100 to 200mg per ml and are very good products.

Then there is winstrol, chemical name stanozolol. This is the famous steroid that ben johnson tested positive for in the 1988 olympics in seoul, south korea. This is a highly anabolic and moderately androgenic steroid. Winstrol is available usually as a vetrinary product in 50mg and 100mg per ml concentrations as a suspension in water, just like testosterone suspension. It is a 17 alpha alkylated product, which means that it will bypass the first pass metabolism in the liver, which would eliminate the steroid without it. This also makes it toxic to the liver and usage of 17 alpha alkylated products should be limited in dosage and length. Winstrol is also made as a human drug in 2mg tabs for a certain kind of edema, but it is rarely used. It is also made in tabs in 5/10/25/50mg dosages by other companies. The best winstrol product is made by the spanish company, Zambon. It is a 50mg per ml suspension in an ampoule and is considered to be the most accurately dosed product available. Stanozolol has close to a 12 hour half life so twice a day oral dosages or every day injections are good. One important fact is that you can drink the injectable winstrol and it will be the exact same as injecting it. The one advantage to injecting stanozolol is due to the site enhancement properties that some have said that it has.

Another popular steroid is dianabol, chemical name methandrostenolone. It is probably the second most popular steroid and was the first made in the USA, by the company CIBA. It is a very strong androgenic and anabolic drug that is known for very big gains in a short time. It is known to cause massive water retention, due to its aromatizing to estrogen. It usually comes in 5mg tabs, although it can come in 10mg/25mg/50mg tabs. It has a very short half life of 4 hours, so dosing is usually at least three times a day. It can come as an injectable in oil or propylene glycol at 25mg-50mg per ml, although this isnt a very popular product. It is 17 alpha alkylated so oral dosing is possible, and you can drink the injectable product or inject it every day. This also means that it is liver toxic though.

One more popular steroid is oxandrolone, known as anavar or oxandrin. Oxandrolone is a highly anabolic low androgenic oral steroid that is 17 alpha alkylated. It comes in tabs from 2.5mg up to 50mg. The brand name, anavar, was used by the drug company searle, but they stopped making this product more than ten years ago and the only US manufacturer of oxandrolone is BTG under the name oxandrin. The chemical itself is one of the more expensive steroids, so the tabs are also much more expensive than the cheaper chemicals like methandrostenolone or stanozolol. The gains from oxandrolone arent big, as it can not aromatize to estrogen, but they are of high quality. Oxandrolone tabs are available from many vetrinary and overseas companies, but you have to sure of your source. The cost of oxandrolone is so great, that some companies will switch the tabs to a cheaper tab, such as dianabol, and you will never know since you will still gain some muscle. There really isnt any way around this other than a gas chromatograph test, or to be sure of your source. It is available as an injectable product from some underground companies, and you can drink the injectable or inject it every day. Oxandrolone has a half life of around twleve hours so twice a day dosing is good.

Another popular steroid is anadrol, chemical name oxymetholone. Oxymetholone is probably the most powerful steroid available commonly and the gains from it are very big. it is a highly androgenic and highly anabolic steroid. It will cause a lot of water retention so you must deal with it, or take other precautions to deal with that. It is an oral 17 alpha alkylated steroid that almost always comes in 50mg tabs, although 25mg, 75mg, and 100mg tabs do exist. It is available in the US under the name anadrol 50, from the company unimed, although this is rarely seen on the black market. Many countries make a high quality oxymetholone product and a few are hemogenin from brazil and anapolan from turkey. It is very toxic to the liver and dosage and length of time used should be limited. It is one of the few steroids that can produce a huge increase in the hematocrit level, or the cells that carry oxygen in the body. This can make the user feel very energetic and increase aerobic capacity and have increased vascularity, but this also means that the users blood will be thicker and their blood pressure will be higher. Some users have said that anadrol blunts their appetite, which means that it might be useful as a dieting drug for some. It could be used as an injectable, but very few underground companies make an injectable oxymetholone product. The halflife of oxymetholone is around 12 hours, so twice a day dosing is good.

Another very popular steroid is trenbolone. It is 19 nor testosterone based, and is chemically related to nandrolone. It was first produced by the french company negma, as the injectable parabolan, with the chemical trenbolone hexyhydrobenzylcarbonate. Although there is still some controversey over this, negma stopped producing parabolan in 1992, so dont expect to find any and even if you did, it would be very weak now from being stored so long. Next some underground companies started product finaject, or finabolan, which was trenbolone acetate. This didnt last long and bodybuilders didnt have a way to get trenbolone for a long time. Someone then figured out how to extract the trenbolone acetate, from a legal cow impant used for increased growth. This made it almost legal, and very easy, to get and make trenbolone acetate. Trenbolone is a highly androgenic and highly anabolic drug, but it can not aromatize to estrogen so the gains arent huge from it, but are very hard. Trenbolone acetate usually comes in concentrations from 75mg to ml to 200mg per ml. The acetate ester is one of the shortest known, so it is best to inject every day or every other day. To avoid this, some underground companies have started to produce trenbolone enanthate. This allows users to inject once or twice a week and still get the benefits of trenbolone. The products usually come in oil, although it is possible to use trenbolone in water. Some companies also produce a trenbolone suspension product, which is very good, but has to be injected at least daily. Trenbolone will give a very hard and vascular look, which is one of the reasons that it is popular with dieting bodybuilders. It is also one of the few steroids that also has a direct effect on cortisol and fat loss.

Another commonly used steroid is primobolan, chemical name methanolone. It is a highly anabolic and low androgenic drug. It used to be available as an injectable in both acetate and enanthate esters, although only the enanthate ester is produced now from the company schering. Some underground companies have now produced shorter acting esters with methanolone, including acetate. It is available as an oral product as well, usually in 5mg and 25mg tabs, and they are not 17 alpha alkylated so liver toxicity is not an issue. The oral methanolone typically needs a dose of at least 100mg per day to be effective, and this can get expensive, so most people use the injectable. The concentration from the methanolone product by schering, primobolan, comes in 50mg and 100ml per ml ampoules. This steroid will not aromatize to estrogen and will not give big gains, but the gains will be very lean gains. This is one steroid that will not cause very many side effects unless the dosage is very high, and this makes it very popular among people who do not want to use more androgenic drugs. Methanolone is another steroid that is expensive comparitively, so many fakes are made. Some of the fakes are very good and it is very hard to tell them apart from the real product. It is best not to buy primobolan unless you are very sure of your source.


It is good to also not that with the longer acting products more of the concentration is the weight of the ester, so you are getting less steroid per ml then with a shorter acting product. This can be seen by comparing the ester weights of testosterone propionate and testosterone enanthate and the no ester product testosterone suspension.

With a 200mg shot of each, test suspension will give 200mg of test, test prop will give around 175mg of test and test enanthate will give around 150mg. This means that after you account for the ester, which does nothing in the body, you are getting less steroid with the longer acting products. You dont have to inject as often with the longer acting products though, so it is a trade off of what you want. The ester weight difference generally will not make a huge difference until you are around the 750mg-1000mg a week dosage. This is true for all injectable steroids as well.


you also may want to check these out, I don't particularily like the guy who wrote them but they're a good resource with some good information:

Testosterone Suspension

Testosterone Propionate

Testosterone Cypionate

Testosterone Enthanate

Stanozolol

Methenolone

Trenbolone

Methandrostenolone

Boldenone

Nandrolone

Mibolerone

Oxandrolone

Oxymetholone

YOU NEED TO HAVE A WELL PLANNED CYCLE

For your first cycle, the best thing to do is 500mg/testosterone per week for 8-10 weeks with an anti-aromatase, and of course proper PCT.

Then you can add in orals such as dianabol or oral stanozolol with the testosterone as you start to get more advanced, but it's never a good idea to run an oral steroid for more than 6 weeks.

I won't include info on advanced cycles since this is a guide for n00bs.

YOU NEED TO USE ANCILLARIES AND PROPER PCT

Ancillaries are compounds that are used to prevent the side effects of steroid use mainly by preventing aromatase or preventing estrogen from binding to it's receptors.

You should always use an anti-aromatase such as Letrazole (Femara), or Anastrazole (Arimidex), or Exemestane (Aromasin) to prevent test from aromatizing into estrogen, even when using a SERM because estrogen has non-receptor mediated effects that can be undesirable.

You should always have Tamoxifen (Nolvadex) on hand in case you start to encounter itchy nipples which is a sign of the early stages of gynecomastia ("bitch tits").

PCT is the abbreviation for "Post Cycle Therapy", which must be done in order to properly recover and keep the gains that you made while on cycle. Usually Clomiphene (Clomid) is used as the staple of PCT, but it can also include Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (Pregnyl) which mimics leutenizing hormone in the male body and causes the testes to produce testosterone again. It's important to always use clomiphene or tamoxifen also though because HCG can be somewhat suppressive of natural testosterone itself.

Another important thing is that you continue training hard and eating well after your cycle in order to keep as much gains as possible.

AND ONE LAST THING: THEY DON'T SHRINK YOUR DICK!

I'm sick and tired of hearing this, it's a stupid myth that has no truth in it. Steroids do have the potential to shrink your testicles temporarily while ON CYCLE, however with proper PCT they return to normal.

They do not have an effect on the size of your penis.

If you find any errors, or think I left anything important out, please let me know.
 
5 alpha please sticky this. Good job Rog. It's good to have you on board here. :)

for all the noobs.......read this and take notice, this should prevent all of the dumbass questions people are asking in this forum.

If anyone asks another dumbass question, they are just ASKING for sphinx to shove a blowtorch up their ass.
 
Roger&Me said:
YOU HAVE TO INJECT

Though not all steroids are injectable, in order to run a proper steroid cycle you need to prepare to inject. There are multiple reasons for this.

The number one reason is that oral steroids are extremely hepatoxic, they are not kind at all to the liver, since they have to alkylated in order to avoid the first pass through the liver so that they are effective. Using only orals is a great way to destroy your liver for not very much gains.

Another reason is that you must include injectable testosterone as the base of your cycle. If you were to use only dht derivative steroids they would shut down your HPTA (Hypothalamus-Pituitary-Testes Axis) HARDCORE, and you would not produce any natural test so you would need to use synthetic injectable test either in the form of propionate, cypionate, enthanate, or suspension in order to have testosterone in your system.

Oral-only cycles are just too dangerous in comparison to the gains that they elicit therefore should always be discouraged.

I have to disagree with this claim. The earlier bodybuilders built great bodies on mostly oral steroids and much lower doses than the current industry uses. For the majority of recreational lifters (non-professionals/competitors) a 6-8 week cycle of 50 mg methandrostenolone or oxymetholone would produce significant gains. So long as one does not try to do such cycles month after month, a once or twice a year oral only cycle is not that damaging.
 
^the gains at the cost of your health is just not worth it. Just because people have done it before doesn't mean it's the best option.
 
Roger&Me said:
^the gains at the cost of your health is just not worth it. Just because people have done it before doesn't mean it's the best option.

I think you are exaggerating the dangers of orals. How many have done cycles with injectable AND orals? If you are claiming they are so dangerous, then do you advocate the complete rejection of 17-AA steroids?

After reading another post, I see you stated this to a newbie:

You run a full cycle: testosterone plus an oral steroid like dianabol is a good first cycle.

Now I am confused, why do you claim that orals are so dangerous, then tell a newbie to use an oral in a cycle?

Also, your idea that orals are more suppressive to the HPTA vs. injectables is misleading; both suppress the HPTA. The HPTA detects elevated levels of androgens and reduces LH.
 
Last edited:
DUDE, I claimed that ALL oral cycles are too dangerous in comparison to the gains that they elicit to be a reasonable choice. I never denounced orals, I denounced ALL oral cycles.
 
micro2000 said:
Also, your idea that orals are more suppressive to the HPTA vs. injectables is misleading; both suppress the HPTA. The HPTA detects elevated levels of androgens and reduces LH.

I never said that. Both are equally as suppressive to the HPTA.

Seriously, when did I ever say that?
 
Roger&Me said:
I never said that. Both are equally as suppressive to the HPTA.

Seriously, when did I ever say that?

Under "You Have to Inject" you wrote this:

Another reason is that you must include injectable testosterone as the base of your cycle. If you were to use only dht derivative steroids they would shut down your HPTA (Hypothalamus-Pituitary-Testes Axis) HARDCORE, and you would not produce any natural test so you would need to use synthetic injectable test either in the form of propionate, cypionate, enthanate, or suspension in order to have testosterone in your system.

Maybe I am not understanding this, but if all androgens suppress the HPTA, then why argue claim you need an injectable testosterone in your cycle??

There are numerous "non DHT" derivatives, such as nandrolone and trenbolone, both can be used without an injectable test and provide quality gains.
 
Roger&Me said:
DUDE, I claimed that ALL oral cycles are too dangerous in comparison to the gains that they elicit to be a reasonable choice. I never denounced orals, I denounced ALL oral cycles.

But I know, and I can bet many others know, people who have made great gains on a single oral, such as methandrostenolone or oxymetholone. My ex college roomate made some of the best gains I have ever seen on 50mg of Anadrol for 6 weeks. He kept about 20lbs of lean mass after gaining nearly 30lbs.
 
20lbs lean mass 6 weeks 50mg anadrol?? LOL comon. Have you ever seen a lbs of meat? Its alot of fucking meat, your trying to tell me in 6 weeks of 50mg anadrol he gained 20lbs of muscle, LOL I dont beleive that unless he was a freshly imported ethiopian.

You wanna see real gains, do a proper cycle, as simple as that. Why must you put idiotic ideas in the hands of idiots who would do them???
 
The thing is when you take ANY steriod other than a test-ester than your (somewhat) replacing your body's testosterone with an inferior product... You really want to have some unadulterated testosterone running through your system to carry out the functions that it would usually.

Im sure that 20lbs of mass in 6 weeks is possible but I'm sure that an 8-10 week cycle of some form of test would have given him much better (and much safer) results... IMHO
 
Giza said:
20lbs lean mass 6 weeks 50mg anadrol?? LOL comon. Have you ever seen a lbs of meat? Its alot of fucking meat, your trying to tell me in 6 weeks of 50mg anadrol he gained 20lbs of muscle, LOL I dont beleive that unless he was a freshly imported ethiopian.

Who said anything about 20lbs of muscle?? LBM is not pure muscle. In any cycle you do, the end result is a new balance of muscle tissue, fat tissue and cell volume. I am sure that a portion of his gains were some fat, but being that he was the stereotypical ectomorph, a slight gain in fat was not aesthetically displeasing.

You wanna see real gains, do a proper cycle, as simple as that. Why must you put idiotic ideas in the hands of idiots who would do them???

What is a "proper cycle" in your opinion?
 
micro2000 said:
Maybe I am not understanding this, but if all androgens suppress the HPTA, then why argue claim you need an injectable testosterone in your cycle??

Because when you shut down the HPTA, you don't produce any natural testosterone. Testosterone regulates many different biological functions in your body(including erections, so if you don't run test GOODBYE WOOD!). Other steroids that aren't test will still cause negative feedback but won't be able to regulate any of the same biological processes.

I'm sorry bro, but only someone severly uneducated about steroids would suggest running a cycle without test. Test should bethe base of every cycle.
 
Roger&Me said:
Because when you shut down the HPTA, you don't produce any natural testosterone. Testosterone regulates many different biological functions in your body(including erections, so if you don't run test GOODBYE WOOD!). Other steroids that aren't test will still cause negative feedback but won't be able to regulate any of the same biological processes.

I'm sorry bro, but only someone severly uneducated about steroids would suggest running a cycle without test. Test should bethe base of every cycle.

What biological processes are not being regulated? While it is true that some steroids are worse than others at suppressing libido, either due to weaker affinity to the AR (nandrolone) or non-aromatization (estrogen plays a role in CNS function), this is not the quality of all steroids. Not to mention, I am talking about a low dose cycle for a beginner, not some sophisticated planning for competitors.

The average weightlifter is not Dorian Yates, they don't need $500 bucks of overkill for a beginner cycle. I do believe that a basic cycle of 300mg-400mg/week of test cypionate or enanthate is really all that is needed, but I am not going to tell someone that a simple methandrostenolone cycle won't give them any gains or is dangerous.
 
Top