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Morals [regarding cannabis use]

Coose said:
Smoking marijuana isn't a matter of morals, it's a matter of stigma.


Yep... This 'stigma' and how it is enforced is responsible for the terrible phenomenon of paranoia...


POLITZIA!!?!?!111!!... WHERE MAN.. FFFFFUCK
 
There's a Bible quote about how all the plants and herbs on the Earth were given by God to be used by people (too lazy to look it up, sorry). In addition, there are almost certainly references to cannabis in a few places in the Bible, at least in older manuscripts, and cannabis use was common in Jesus' time among the Jews (and, presumedly, the early Christians). The idea that it was a drug that should be banned did not enter mainstream thought in the West until the 20th century, and I could talk all day about the actual intentions of those who first banned it.

I'm not a Christian, but in my opinion, unless you personally feel that God does not want you to smoke cannabis, I don't think you need to worry about responsible use. If you can use it to reflect upon your spirituality, pray and/or meditate, it could become a healthy part of your religious experience.
 
I have to quote a saying we all know
"God made weed, man made beer, who do you trust"
Its really as simple as that
I'd rather light up a jay over have a beer anyday and I'm a fucking bartender
God put it out there for a reason
 
I don't see anything morally wrong with using something that gives you pleasure by altering your consciousness. I don't think that Christ did either (water to wine FTW).

It doesn't become a moral issue until it affects the way that you treat others in your life. And even then I would say it's more "ethical" than "moral."

Honestly, marijuana and distance running are the two things that really get me in touch with my spirituality. I can't imagine God not wanting me to feel the connection with my self, my soul and His creation that comes from my use of one, the other, or both together.
 
If you think it's wrong, ask your god when you are praying. You should get an answer somehow. I ask a lot of questions when I pray and I always seem to get some sort of resolution to my inquiry.

As a spiritual person, I feel no guilt or wrongdoing smoking a plant that I cared for and nurtured myself.

The teleological argument actually makes decent sense in this circumstance. I actually copied this definition from Wiki since it was much more concise than the once I drafted:

-X is too complex, orderly, adaptive, apparently purposeful, or beautiful to have occurred randomly or accidentally.
-Therefore, X must have been created by a sentient, intelligent, wise, or purposeful being.
-God is that sentient, intelligent, wise, or purposeful being.
-Therefore, God exists.
 
I find that ethics is full of gray area. I think whether you should do one drug or another depends on a few issues:

What are your long-term goals? Is there a possibility your use of a certain drug might present some unnecessary obstacles (financial, psychological, motivational, etc.) to accomplishing those goals?

Do the drawbacks of the drug affect your ability to accomplish your goals or perform well while sober?

Are you able to maintain enough self-control to avoid harming yourself or others, physically or in any other way? I personally find heavy drinking to be somewhat ethically questionable for this reason. I don't avoid being moderately drunk, but as I see it, if I am likely to make any decision that I will disagree with after I sober up, I'm too drunk. So far, I've avoided any bad experiences while drunk, something quite a few of my peers where I attend college are unable to say.
 
Coose said:
Smoking marijuana isn't a matter of morals, it's a matter of stigma.
That's not entirely the case. I've seen plenty of people who simply did not properly moderate their usage who've accomplished nothing with their lives. Sure, that's not an ethical issue of smoking marijuana, but of moderation; however, the issues are undeniably interrelated.
 
bluedolphin said:
God put it there for a reason.

Those that serve to ban naturally occuring and mind-opening substances like DMT, cannabis, mescaline, psilocin, etc are the ones who should be feeling guilty, if indeed they claim to praise the work of God.

To have smoked cannabis or eaten mushrooms, and then to say "I don't think humans were ever intended to experience this", is absolutely absurd.

People who crusade against mind-altering substances are some of the worst prejudicial stereotypers the world has known.

.....
I also don't feel guitly about taking man-made drugs ;)


I couldn't have said it better.
 
I dont feel guilty smoking weed. I do it once a night in a safe enviorment.
I make sure I never drive or do it in front of anyone.
The only one im hurting is me, and I dont mind.
 
callupjah said:
Is that seriously your argument? Complex plants and beings have been proven to occur through evolution over millions of years. An organism may seem incredibly complex, so complex that there is no chance it could be spawned from the earth and not a creator, but this isn't so.
You might now think what are the chances of something, the human eye for example, evolving so perfectly to give us our uninterrupted view of the world. But its not like it just evolved all of a sudden. Over extended periods of time, bit by bit, it was built through evolution.
Look at it this way, its extremely unlikely that if you chucked some buckets of paint at the wall could create a masterpiece like the Mona Lisa. However, if you spend days, or in evolutions case, millions of years, slowly painting the different parts of the painting, you will eventually end up with an incredibly complex picture that would have first seemed impossible. Evolution works up, bit by bit, to create the complex organisms we know today.
By the way, the argument you proposed is known as Irredubile Complexity, the wiki link has some scientific responses to it on it :D
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irreducible_complexity

My argument lies within the teological argument. Perhaps my copy from wiki wasn't exactly what you are looking for. Do some research on the teleological argument and then reply.

What you proposed as a disagreement to my post is actaully not true in a philisophical sense, we are comparing apples to oranges. It's a philosophical conundrum that has been debated for ages. Also, check your spelling for your theory, it's wrong.
 
only moral problem i have with pot is adults who smoke with kids that are like 15.

i wont smoke with kids under 18. but ill smoke in front of a kid or my kid. i really dont see the problem other than its illegal.....
 
callupjah said:
Matthew 15:11 said:
"It is not what enters into the mouth that defiles the man, but what proceeds out of the mouth, this defiles the man."
As you know, Jesus talked in parables, and almost everything he said had a deeper meaning. The message here in relation to cannabis is clear, if you are smoking cannabis for positive reasons then it is a good thing. Smoking cannabis can really clear your mind and help you to understand people with more compassion, helping you to lead a better life. However, if you are smoking cannabis to spend all your time chargggeed out of your head and don't give a shit about anything as it takes over your life, then it is obviously not a good idea as the drug is having a negative impact on your life.
I feel that this is the same for every drug, Ecstasy, LSD, whatever. It isn't the drug that is bad, its the way that the drug effects you in the long term that can be positive or negative. I'm sure many people here, myself included will testify to the positive effects of infrequent ecstasy use in making you a better person, Just as many people here will say how some opiates or stimulants have consumed their lives, so there is a flip side to the coin too.
If you're still not reassured that the bible is okay with you toking up then how about this one straight from God lol
I'm inclined to agree with you on this issue, but I'd like to point out that in this passage, Jesus was speaking specifically about the issue of the Levitican laws regarding diet. Your interpretation of this passage is definitely not going to pass in more conservative circles, and even in some of the more liberal circles. There are passages elsewhere in the Bible that speak against intoxicants and the like, and--issues of Biblical contradiction aside--if an interpretation of one passage contradicts the explicit message of another passage, it's going to be more difficult to convince someone with serious doubts about your stance on the issue.
 
ratiuglink said:
There are passages elsewhere in the Bible that speak against intoxicants and the like, and--issues of Biblical contradiction aside--if an interpretation of one passage contradicts the explicit message of another passage, it's going to be more difficult to convince someone with serious doubts about your stance on the issue.

One thing I've learned about religion: You can use scripture to support ANY stance on ANY issue if you pick your passages.

But on to the quote at hand ("You are defiled not by what you put in the mouth, but by what comes out of the mouth") - I think it actually dovetails with, rather than contradicts, another famous passage which states "Be drunk not of wine, but of the fruit of the spirit." Along with Christ's first miracle (water to wine), they seem to paint a pretty reasonable picture of Christ's take on intoxicants. You shouldn't need them to be happy, but you also shouldn't be overly concerned with what you eat/drink so long as you take care of what comes out of your mouth and stay in communion with the spirit.

The body is a temple, so take care of it (but don't get your panties in a bunch over dietary laws or other arbitrary restrictions). God put plants here for our use (but don't abuse them, because he sure didn't want us drinking datura tea and flipping out naked for 48 hours).

One of the great things about the New Testament is that it focuses so much on the Golden Rule, and really puts aside many of the more archaic and arbitrary guidelines of the Old Testament (Deut., Lev., and even, to an extent, the Commandments). Christ was a lot more reasonable than many of his modern-day followers.
 
SlayerFairy said:
I have been a smoker for quite some time now and marijuana is the only "drug" that I don't feel guilty about taking. I haven't done any other chemical drugs in years but my herb, I just can't let go.

My friend who is an ex-Jehovah's Witness told me that I should feel guilty about smoking because it is a drug. I agree that it is a drug-mind altering substance, but should I really feel guilty about this? I'm very spiritual and close to God but I haven't read any where in the bible that says anything about pot. Do you guys feel guilty? What are your moral views on this?

[topic ammended --fr]


there's references to weed all throughout the bible....good references, look it up man it could really reassure you.

but i think that you don't have to justify something you love, that's just stupid.
 
I don't think that drug use is inherently a moral issue at all. It is an integral aspect of human nature; comparable to sex and music -- it is an area that humanity is enormously fascinated with.

The idea that there is something inherently "immoral" about using any substance is completely a social construct.

Drugs are just matter. They are elements arranged in a certain molecular geometry. There is nothing more immoral about them than a chair or a motor vehicle; how you use them is where issues of morality come into play. (eg. Does your use of drugs do harm to yourself or others? Is it causing you to neglect people with whom you have a responsibility for? Is it effecting your ability to fulfill your potential, academically, socially, or otherwise? etc.)

The bottom line is that everyone uses drugs of some sort. Even strict baptists or mormons who try to not consume any type of mind-altering substance (even caffeine), will eventually consume some sort of drug over the course of their life; whether intended or not.

edit-- Furthermore, I find it a bit perturbing that anyone would consider a reference in the bible to be any type of valid argument for or against any moral issue. Most of the world is not christian, in fact only about 1/6 of the world population is christian...therefore why would quoting the bible make any difference one way or another? The bible is a myth -- and I don't mean this in a derogatory manner whatsoever -- but that's exactly what it is, from a historian's perspective. Its a mythological framework that helps certain people understand the world in a certain way. It is not right or wrong, moral or immoral, or anything like that really -- it is a political and social construct (which also happens to contain a lot of cool ideas, among some also archaic and outdated ones). My point is this, though: you can argue morality without bringing religion into it; because we are all human beings and share a similar common experience -- and morality is just a thing we've invented to help us all be able to benefit from this experience without infringing on its potential benefit to others.

love and light guise <3
 
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^^ excellent post. Weird, I just was explaining that very concept in a post in the PD forum...

My chemistry teacher was just talking about the logical flaw in determining an inanimate OBJECT's moral value. You can't say that skateboards are immoral, because they are unthinking and unmoving objects. A person could use a skateboard for moral and immoral purposes, but it remains neutral in and of itself.

The same applies to a plant. This is the logical flaw in criminalizing a plant.
 
I believe that a person of the age 18 can put whatever they want to their body. I don't see any morality at all in what a person does to themselves. You can smoke pot, shoot h, or move to Tibet and become a hermit.
 
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