The Big & Dandy Psychedelic Therapy Thread

Discuss here the potential of using psychedelics in a therapeutic setting, with a guide to help you through problems,
for discussion of doing this alone and unguided please visit the subthread

External Links:

• Handbook for the Therapeutic Use of LSD-25 by D.B. BLEWETT, Ph.D. & N. CHWELOS, M.D
• The Secret Chief Revealed by Myron Stolaroff

Subthread:

• Psychedelic SELF-therapy

[original post:]

I hope this is the right place, this might be a legal q&a though although this would be more interesting to discuss here.

I wonder if someone could go to a therapist (a psychologist or related), take a psychedelic like E, K or LSD and this would be ok with the psychologist?

I guess they might not want liability for anything that happens but it would be neat to be on a high dose of K getting hypnotized or talked to by someone professional.

Would it be illegal for a psychologist to do this? Does this go on?

Most psychologists can't prescribe anything. A psychiatrist (depending on the country) could prescribe drugs for you, but only ones that are prescribable. In a lot of countries ketamine is prescribable. If your in the US, anything which is not scedual I is theoretically prescribable, but that dosn't mean you're ever gonna find a psychiatrist that will prescribe it.

^^ I think what he was asking was that if he obtained the drug from an external source would a psychologist be willing to have a session with him while he was high.

That 100% depends on your psychologist ... I would imagine a great deal of them being OK with it - then again, some of them might go ahead and call the police.
If this is a real-life case (which I think it is) I would suggest you talk to him about psychedelics being used as a form of therapy - only out of curiosity, of course. You'll just have to see what his response is to gauge whether taking out that baggy of K/LSD/MDMA right there is a good idea or not ...

I fully agree with gugglebum. Just ask the psychologist, tell him why you think taking a psychedelic during a therapy would be useful. (I can imagine the psychologist saying that it might do more damage than good, but that really depends on the therapist, and it will be your task to convince him that it doesn't).
Heheh, I will probably master in psychology next year (I might continue with the study and become a therapist, but I'm not fully sure about that yet ), and I, personally, wouldn't mind a client taking a psychedelic during a therapy session. As long as the client has honestly asked it, has convinced me of the positive outcome and shows some knowlegde on the drug.

a novel approach

buy him a copy of 'the psychedelic experience" by masters and houston.
just maybe he's heard of them.



-j.

I'agree with gugglebum; check out with the therapist first, as he/she might not want to deal with a patient 'under the influence' of anything, legal or illegal (there are many occurences of therapists telling drunk patients to show up only when sober, for instance).

After you've got that cleared out of the way, and only then, see what your real options are. Unless you are in for the fun, don't forget that whatever you do is supposed to be beneficial for the therapy (especially if you're paying for it), plus it has to be acceptable and manageable by both parties.

For example, suppose you show up rolling or high; you and the therapist should never trespass what is called the therapeutic boundaries - the heavy negative risks are rarely worth putting the whole relationship into jeopardy, IMHO. If the substance used makes you less inhibited to talk during a session, you also both need to be sure you can manage the situation once you've left (will you remember? What will you remember? How will it affect you and your actions and thoughts, how will it affect the following sessions? etc...).

If really interested, you can do a web search on "psychedelics" and "psychotherapy" on the web, there are lots of serious references with advice, protocols, opinions etc... out there, and of a great value.

Now the word from the Devil's advocate:
It's also quite possible that a therapist cannot tell if you're in your 'normal' state or not, depending partly on the substance you'd use, and depending partly on how you'd act and react to it. In this case, it's your decision to tell or not to tell, but you must be in rather good control of yourself to choose such an option.

My summing-up word would be 'Trust' and mutual respect. Make sure it's there, and if it's there, don't damage it uselessly or you may have to find yourself another therapist and start all over again.

Wishing you a good exploration of the question!

Psychedelic Therapy

If that therapist isnt agreeable, I'm sure there's more than one in your area that would be willing to have a psychedelic therapy session.
If you do not wish to jeopardize the relationship with your current psych, then try making a list of the ones available in your area and contact them about the issue.
BTW, what psychedelic is it that you wish to use for therapy?

I wasn't definately planning on doing this; I don't have a therapist, but I think it would be interesting to work out a psychedelic experience on ketamine or maybe a 2C, with someone experienced in psychology. I think it would be more helpful than without a drug. But then again, when in a K hole I can't think much about myself.

I'd think it'd be a good idea to lightly bring up some conversation about psychedelic's first.

Hmm, I had gone to therapy sessions on MDMA, low doses of DXM, and shrooms. They really helped me to open up and uncover supressed memories, and develop trust in my shrink at the beginning of my therapy sessions. I have a very hard time on fully trusting people because I've been violated few times when I was young. My counselor was kind of wary on giving it a try at first, but after 2nd time, it begun to make better & noticeable changes in me. I would say give it a try as long both of you & your counselor agrees on it and feels comfortable with it. And I live in US.

I figured i'd post, because I'm outlining a therapy session for some point in the future, I have a dear friend who has never done a psychadelic, and she is having a large feeling of disconnectedness from the world, so I think the therapy session would be beneficial to her, removing her from the outside world, seperating her from her ego. I have read very much into this, and the preparations are beginning for this session to occur, she is a yoga instructor, as well, so I think the experience will be absolutely amazing for her, and very beneficial.

I will post my report when it happens, we are going to audio tape the entire experience, and I will give a thorough post-analysis, and wether or not a break through occured.

Has anybody tried Grof-style psychedelic therapy?

Stanislav Grof pioneered psychedelic therapy.

The technique was for a patient to ingest a high (300-1500mcgs) dose of LSD.
The patient generally wore eye-shades and had their favourite (albeit without lyrics) music pumped into their ears via headphones.

The therapist was on hand to keep them cool if they flipped out, but the patient was asked to lay in darkness and to avoid speaking or taking off the shades for the duration of the peak.

His methods are set out in his book, Psychedelic Therapy.

Now, I wonder if anyone, like me, has undertaken guerilla psychedlic therapy on themselves, even if previously unaware that Grof's methods matched their own practises.

I'm interested in experiences and whether there have been any positive/negative outcomes of tripping at this dose-range in this manner.

Have you?

I think to discount other types of psychedelic experiences as not being therapy would be foolish. I find that just living while tripping has taught me more than abstract thought and pondering. I spend a lot of time alone and pretty much always have. But when I'm out amongst people, out of my mind, I find myself truly living the values I always think about. Solo trips tend to be more about abstraction and universal cohesion (cohesion in my understanding).

I would dare say that Grof was one of the modern fathers of psychedelic medicine, but I don't think he invented it. Certainly religious ceremonies involving psychedelics offer a similar examples of respectful hallucinogen use.

Although an earth-shattering dose like that does not come, at least to myself, without a little apprehension. I would think that being completely unprepared for the rocket ride to insanity is actually useful in the context Grof used; meaning that first timers may have more to gain. I've always been a proponent of having your first acid trip being very intense. People seem to have a hard time with acid unless they've been absolutely rocked the first time as well as it being a positive experience. By a hard time I guess I mean anxiety and maybe misplaced intent in what LSD can really do for a person.

PAX,
PL

thread title edited for clarity

Laying in darkness with my eyes closed was my M.O. for K-holes back in the days when I was regularly IMing ketamine.

I have undergone psychedelic self-therapy on numerous occasions. Although, LSD has not been something I've been lucky enough to find much of in my life. I think people tend to generalize "tripping" to LSD a lot of the time, but in truth, there are many different compounds, with a wide range of effects, and some of them can be very therapeutic.

At some point when I have some more time I'll post a link or two to reports about such experiences. Overall, I have found the psychedelic state, through the lenses of a variety of substances, to have catalyzed a number of positive changes in my psyche, particularly in the elimination of some neuroses and at least the tools to be aware of and deal with others. It has also been a tool to explore spirituality and a trigger to show it to me in the first place. And you really can't put a value on spiritual understanding and peace.

I'll have more to say about this later, but I've fallen into deep fantasy trance states with eyes closed, lights off (candles on), headphones on playing repetitive beeps into my ear. Its a deep world if you let it manifest itself. I think its definitely a must-do for anyone interested in the psychedelic world. This really lends itself to DMT, though lately I've been finding it more useful to smoke outdoors in the sunshine (I have a developing theory it does make a difference if one smokes at night or in the daytime).

Also some of the most therapeutic moments on psychedelics have been laughing my ass off in the woods on a sunny day. But, this is a good topic. I was actually wanting to ask how other BLers approach self-therapy with psychs.

I'd be interested in discussing the differences and similarities between the Grof approach and the Shulgin/Stolaroff approach to psychedelic therapy.

I think Grof's approach borrows heavily from traditional shamanic practices which also involve high doses, darkness, music and an experienced supportive guide.

When I was in Peru, one of the Shamanic apprentices had met Grof and did some of his holotropic breathwork. From what I was told it's certainly no ayahuasca, but can be very useful for achieving altered states which are more controllable. I would love to learn these techniques myself, but there doesn't seem to be much information available.

Slightly off topic, but I recently watched an interesting/informative and also highly biased documentary called "Psychiatry: Industry of Death" and was appalled to see Stanislav Grof included with a list of all these evil Nazi psychiatrists and other unscrupulous characters.

Also slightly off topic, but I think that Grof has aged remarkably well, he looks very young and healthy for his age. Its good to see these old psychedelic guys like Hoffman, Grof and Shulgin still in good health and mentally as sharp as tacks...

Slightly off topic, but I recently watched an interesting/informative and also highly biased documentary called "Psychiatry: Industry of Death" and was appalled to see Stanislav Grof included with a list of all these evil Nazi psychiatrists and other unscrupulous characters.

Click to expand...

that documentary is made by the curch of scientology, and IMO is more propaganda than a documentary

Grof's wife banned him from using drugs so these days he's reduced to trying to get the same effects from hyperventilating.