The Big & Dandy Phenethylamines vs Tryptamines Thread

Helpful Links:

• Wikipedia Category: Psychedelic Phenethylamines
• Wikipedia Category: Psychedelic Tryptamines

Original post: is there any sorta way to describe the differences in visuals between the two (very loosely even)

is one more like breathing color change or can one give flat out halucinations like stuff not there gnomes ect what ever?

or is this too hard to try to explain?

pea's? ;o phenethylamines?

For me Tryt's seem almost like some kinda of odd death rock music video. I get strobe like OEVs with stuff melting right in front of me, and some very alien like CEVs. With Pea's it feels allot more calm and peaceful and I feel more intune with the trees and grass. Tons of whirling visuals and morphing patters. its nice and happy. And the CEVS seem more pattern shaped.

-Altrez

Every tryptamine and phenethylamine has a unique visual characteristic to it. There are a few phenethylamines that have visuals that are closer to most tryptamines and the same applies to the other way around.

Not even just visuals. All of them have individual headspaces too.

I don't quite lose my power with words as much on PEAs - my ego seems to take less of a bashing with them. Tryptamines, for me, go far deeper into the psyche, they're somehow closer to the soul and dig deep into my emotions. Although some PEAs do that too - but it's much easier to verbalise on PEAs. There's less of a need to fully surrender to the experience, with PEAs, I find. But then, perhaps I simply haven't had the bashing I need from the dose that's gonna give me a kicking. The PEA I have tried that came closest to tryptamines in intensity may have been 2C-E. Also, perhaps TMA-2. But I never really lost the power to verbally reflect on what was happening inside me.

Unlike on LSD, mushrooms, and a few other tryptamines I have tried (big exception has been AMT, where I can verbalise very eloquently).

^ I'd say that it has a lot to do with the amount of dopamine activity that accompanies the 5HT2a agonism (hence AMT having the easier verbilization). Comparing the phenethylamines with the psychedelic amphetamines, the amphetamines have a very easy verbilization. The tryptamines (except for the odd weirdo like AMT) don't do much for the dopaminergic systems.

If you want 'proof' of sorts, try taking psilocin/psilocybin (or any of the 4-hydroxy tryptamines) with a pinch of amphetamine - it's a lot less tongue tying experience

I dunno, i'd say its very subjective........I always like the amphetamine edge to alot of pea's..(MDMA, MDA, 2C-E, 2C-I)...but pea's can have too much of that amphetamine edge.

tryptamines (mushrooms, lsd, 4-ho-dipt) usually fuck with my senses more and don't stimulate me as much, but tend to be uncomfortable in a different way than pea's.

Tryptamines tend to give me a little bit of a nervous or an anxious edge about what others think of me, and all the things I find unconfortable about myself tend to stick out in my mind where Phenethylamines tend to be much easier on my ego.

I have the same results as Ximot. PEA's don't really produce any ego-loss for me and are generally quite manageable. On the other hand, the psychedelic amphetamines I have tried (DOB and TMA-2) have been very enjoyable and reach quite deeply too. I agree with Shulgin that ultimately, the long-lasting psychedelics are more rewarding because there's plenty of time to settle into the trip-space and really work with it. With the shorter ones (like 2C-B), I'm just getting going and it's starting to wear off!

Tryptamines tend to dig deeper into "soul-territory" with me. Far more ego loss and sometimes the plot is lost. This I get more on mushies than on acid. Acid I can take a lot and be ok, 'cos I'm familiar with the space but mushrooms (2g dried cubensis) really do give me a kicking mostly.

I generally do PEA's but occasionally do a tryptamine.

One area I haven't explored in detail yet is tryptamine-PEA combos. I'd like to try a 4-HO-Mipt/2C-D combo, or maybe 2C-E.

I just had my first PEA experience with peruvian torch, so needless to say I was very excited to finally see what was so different than tryptamines.

Being a very big fan of mushrooms, I was somewhat disappointed. No ego loss, no thoughts on the nature of the universe, barely any profoundness. The visuals were damn impressive although I failed to see what made them distinctly different from other tryptamines I have tried. The effects ended up lasting a whopping 12 hours even though the 'peak' wasnt very intense.

My experienced barely touched on what Huxley had described, but I have not lost faith! I shall do a higher dose next time.

^^^ Yes, sounds like a low dose.

On a medium dose of San Pedro (approx 600g) I got visuals and many deep thoughts on the nature of the universe etc. but no ego-loss.

I prefer Tryptamines more because it allows for soul-searching. On a heavy (6-10g dose) of mush, I could close my eyes and literally walk/fly around in another world. Trypts also give me this funny feeling in my chest - the psychedelic feeling. Visually, with opened eyes, I usually don't get too crazy visuals - swirls and shimmers when looking at patterened objects, but not much more unless I take a very heavy dose.

PEAs make colours jump out. Looking at patterened surfaces bring out multi-layered fractals. The visuals are less 'fake' as trypts (things look like how they are supposed to, except, 'exaggerated'). Watching South Park on PEAs is a non-stop rollercoaster ride of laughs.

I usually mix Trypts and PEAs now. It seems to give me the best of both worlds.

Neo1 said:

^^^ Yes, sounds like a low dose.

On a medium dose of San Pedro (approx 600g) I got visuals and many deep thoughts on the nature of the universe etc. but no ego-loss.

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holy shit...600g is a low dose of mesc?

700mg mescaline is a heavy dose
500mg is a strong one
300mg is a medium one
200mg is a light dose.

So maybe the guy just had weak cactus (and what he thought to be 600mg was only 250)

San pedro heavy dose is 800-1000g of fresh cactus

San pedro heavy dose is 800-1000g of fresh cactus

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The figure I've always gone with for san pedro is 1-1.2g of mescaline per kg of fresh cactus, so according to the above dose, you're looking at 800-1200mg of mescaline. That's not a heavy dose, that's getting into the realms of a toxic dose as unlike a lot of psychedelics, mescaline doesnt have a goo theraputic ratio (effective dose: toxic dose).

The dose Neo 1 took would be (according to above figures) 600-720mg; now thats a fairly whopping dose, so all I can think is that the extraction technique left a lot to be desired if he reconed it a ned (300-400mg mescaline) dose. Either that or it was an unusually low yeilding strain of san pedro

So far the PEA's for me have been pretty light, never the ego smashing power of the tryptamines.

I think DMT is unique, "whatever" or however it works I don't know, but i definitely believe its a neurotransmitter that regulates certain things like more DMT = more freedom for the "we"s within the "I" to sort of separate and parallel process, "run on their own".

Its interesting - if your tripping strongly on whatever psychedelic(s) seeing crazy visuals, mind trip, if you take a small low dose hit of DMT out of a pipe - *poof* all the visuals stop, its like *snap*, your sober! Normally taking another tryptamine or whatever other psychedelic on top of other psychedelics usually just start to synergise and increase the overall intensity, but with DMT its almost the opposite (lowish doses). I really wonder what makes DMT so unique, what about its structure makes it act so differently than every other psychedlic drug? Psilocin and DMT do have some things in common, but something about DMT and DMT only, .. its almost like its in a special class of its own. It doesn't cause tolerance, or even seemingly cross tolerance with other psychedelics (if you build up a tolerance to psychedelics beforehand, to where nothing works anymore, DMT still seems to work just fine). I'm going off on a DMT rant.. I should start a separate DMT thread on all of these things (I have so much experience now with DMT and just get deep into how it affects the mind, a lot of questions with no real.. answers!). /end rant
... i love dmt

The figure I've always gone with for san pedro is 1-1.2g of mescaline per kg of fresh cactus

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Looking at the numbers here and here and the discussion here, the range of potencies is very wide and the numbers you are using are on the very high end. More typical 'average' numbers I've seen people use would be 0.03% wet or 0.6% dry, which would be 300mg per 1kg fresh cacti or 50g dried cacti. But the potency can vary up to the range you are describing.

After checking, I found out the source of the figure I use - Adam Gottleib's 'Legal High's'. My fault for being so stupid as to believe a book like that (actually, I think the whole book is pretty much bollocks, I just never realized those figures were from that book until I checked)

Consider my figures revised to 600mg/kg of fresh cactus

Re: tryptamines vs pea's

QGDOXL said:

is there any sorta way to describe the differences in visuals between the two (very loosely even)

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Maybe it's because I have only tried LSD and Shrooms, but I find visuals on Tryptamines more 'natural' and 'organic' than PEAs. I also found that Tryptamines lead you where they want to go, but PEAs leave control in your hands / mind.