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Perth Ice

mAc2011

Bluelighter
Joined
Dec 18, 2002
Messages
3
Over the weekend I was fortunate enough to find myself the owner of a small amount of what a friend called 'ice'. I assumed that it was crystal methamphetamine, it looked like small shards of glass. This friend who has excellent connections and is a regular user said that it was very different to the 'speed' that I have experienced in the past so i was very careful with my dosage. My girlfriend and I crushed and snorted what i estimated to be about 20mg each at about 9pm. This kept us going untill about 5:30am at what time our bodies where very tired but we where still very awake so I just laid in my bed. At about 8:30 i managed to sleep til about 11 at which time i woke up. I got out of bed and felt very refreshed except for a very saw jaw from the night before and went about my daily activites before going to bed at 1:30am the next moring.

Enough of the trip report. For many of you regular meth users this just probably just sounds like any other night on the gear. The surprise came a few days later when i decided to test it with the marquis reagent. To my surprsie the sample fizzed up but had no colour change whatsover. Could this possibly be due to an old tester? It worked fine for MDMA a few months ago. I have tested what in my opinion was poor quality speed a fair while ago an I noticed a definite fizzing and colour change to bright orange. Even dexies have a very slight red spotted change in my experience. This time round though there was no definate reaction.

My conclusion is that the substance ingested was infact not methamphetamine, rather 4-Methylaminorex. I read up on this substance on Erowid http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/4_methylaminorex/ and the pictures there look exactly the same as what i had.

This substance had a chemical/earwax taste that I have tasted so many times before on pills/speed, and its effects where a slight euphoria, endless energy, and extreeme awakeness. I am asking for the opinions of other blulighters that have perhaps had similar experiences with their substances. I have heard that 4-Methylaminorex is very rare, so do you think that this is actually what the substance is, and if so am I very lucky to have connections that can obtain this rare chemical. My friend said that if cops where find out the quality of this gear compared to everything else around they would be very keen to find out where it comes from. I don't think that it would have been locally manufactured.

Your thoughts and opinions would be greatly appreciated.
 
I have heard of 4mar going around Perth, try to test it with a fresh tester, but I suspect it is 4mar.
Keep checking this thread because your sure to get some responses from people who have experience with 4mar.
 
I've tested a few types of "ice" with marquise which worked brilliantly for MDMA, but with no reaction for ice. So I went out and bought a fresh one and once again - a familiar colour change to orange. If your marquise is more than 3 months old, you run the risk of it not being acurate with speed. Mine kept working for pills but not for speed.

Another thing to note is that many low quality types of speed will turn marquise much darker and faster to orange. This is due to much ephedrine being present. High quality ice will fiz and relatively slowly change to orange.

All effects you have described are typical of very good meth. 20mg of high purity meth for the whole night for a non-tolerant user is what I would recommend myself.

I would absolutelly love to be proven wrong, or to one day prove myself wrong by testing a shard with marquise to no typical reaction and then get bent on it and be able to say that I have first hand experience with the illusive 4-MAR (to only be told by many like me now that it was probably high quality meth :) )
 
I've tested what was sold to me as ICE and proven otherwise numerous times. I have not once seen a sample test anything other than amphetamine. This is not to say it isn't out there however, just I havn't ever tested it. I beleive I may have tried it coming from a trusted source but never proven with my own eyes.
 
2cb and meth

I recently tested some chalky looking wizz. Has a strange smell, not much of a smell however and looks like a pinkish powder not unlike that of chalk dust.

This tested with marquis showed up slightly orange and green. My simmons reagent is not working however but Robadope did not react which makes me believe that it is meth and 2cb.

The reason I tested it was because when I took it iI noticed that it gave me that "pill legs" feeling.

Interesting yes??:)
 
DiSturBeD_1 i have seen speed matching that description many times and my opinion was that the red/pink colouring is due to a phosphorus impurity in the final product as it is used to remove an oxygen from the pseudoephidrine (i think that is right, i am no chemist). Sometimes speed is yellow because of in iodine impurty for the same reason.

I think it is really good that in this day and age people test their drugs and have these interesting discussions. It is a lot better than that attitude that so many people have of wanting to get as fucked up as they can without any regard for what chemicals they are actually consuming.

Back to the 4-mar, according to erowid it was only made schedule 1 in the US in 1987 by emergency scheduling in a similar vigilante fashion that MDMA was scheduled around the same time. I know it took australia a little while to catch on and only scheduled MDMA in 1989 i believe. My question is does anyone know the current legal status of 4-mar in WA? Due to its rare nature it could be a chemical that was overlooked in a similar way that those piperazine chems were until about a year ago when that lab got busted an Jim McGinty got all on his high horse about banning these evil drugs from our streets. If this is the case I would like to think that the WA drug enjoying population could exploit this loophole and enjoy wonderful legal drugs without letting the cat out of the bag. This is all speculation however, it is most likely that this chem has already been scheduled, but you never hear of anyone getting done for posession of 4-mar do you.

Is 4-mar more difficult to manufacture than methamphetamine? Could this be the reason that it is so rare. If this is the case then why would a person go to the effort of manufacturing 4-mar when it would be simpler and easier to make meth instead?
 
TESTERS in regards 4-MAR:

Marquis is predominately sulfuric acid, formalin and methanol.
The sulfuric acid is what turns MDXX purple; it will last indefinitely in the marquis and still show positive results for pills even if the reagent is dirty brown.

The formalin is responsible for the organge reaction - i am assuming this because I have tested methamphetamine with pure sulfuric acid and there is NO colour change.
The strong acid conditions cause the formalin to degrade; i am guessing oxidised into formic acid. Whatever the case it is clear that the methamphetamine testing capability of a marquis reagent will wane over time (and not too long at that) and eventually be non-existant LONG before it can no longer test for MDXX.
Thus Runner and Fryd may well be right with what they have said - only getting a new tester can solve the question.

Also with ice you must ensure that you test a CRUSHED sample; i.e: crush some crystals then take a sample of the resulting powder. Ice crystals have far far less surface area than powdered speed or pill scrapings and consequently will react slower. So eliminate this variable by crushing.

4_methylaminorex_2d.gif


This is 4-MAR.
It is not an amphetamine like methamphetamine. I am not sure if it is scheduled but i would argue it should not be illegal under any analogue laws if it is not.

It is actually extremely easy to synthesise from phenylpropanolamine - PPA.
PPA is to pseudoephedrine what amphetamine is to methamphetamine.
I.E: if you performed the OH reduction reaction on PPA as is done to pseudoephedrine you would get regular amphetamine.

4-MAR is made in a reaction with other chemicals, likely found in most chemistry laboratories. (Cyanide is a potential byproduct so you better PRAY this chemist knows what he is doing and cleans the product properly!) Unlike meth however the chemicals are nowhere near as watched and the reaction is "easy" - i.e: little need for harsh conditions; heating etc.
The reason why you dont see it made here is likely:
a) demand
b) knowledge of even what it is
c) PPA - the only real precursor one could use and simply not found in Australia - legally or illegally.
It is used overseas a bit like ephedrine is in diet pills or quasi health food type things.
Consequently its manufacture in Asia probably does occur but the amount imported here is anyones guess.


Dont forget Marquis may turn many things many colours; so a green reaction to a powder sold as speed that also gives some orange is unlikely to be also 2-CB.

Pink/red could be red phosphorus.
Dark red/brown could be decent amount of iodine or a fuck up.
Yellow could be any number of impurities; i have recently seen almost fluro yellow and i suspect this is very diluted iodine contamination; as most people understand, when you throw drops of iodine in a heap of water it goes bright yellow not the darker reddish/brown in concentrated form.


Anyway u could well have 4-MAR; but a new tester on a crushed sample may be needed. If still no reaction, u may be on a winner.
:)
 
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2cb

Hmm now i know 2cb is rare as hens teeth but what sort of impurity would give you that pill legs feeling?

The only other time I have felt that was from the first ever meth i had (after a nasty bong). That was weird and I had numb legs from that aswell.

Both where railed as well.
 
Results

Alright kiddies, here are the official results. I finally forked out for a new marquis reagent yesterday. When the marquis was reacted with a sample of the ice the intitial reaction was a puff of smoke emitted, and then some fizzing. Then for what seemed like an eternity there seemed to be no change whatsoever. Then after what i estimate to be amout one minute a slight orange colour change started to appear indicating the presence of methamphetamine and not 4-mar as originally thought. This serves as a warning to everyone out there to make sure that they are not using out of date testers. As someone once said "if you can afford the drugs, then you can certainly afford the tester". Here is a picture taken several minutes after the reaction for you guys to look at:
 

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Did you crush it like i suggested?

IMO a crushed sample would have reacted faster than yours did.
It does look like the right colour though.


For what its worth a large drug syndicate recently went down in Perth and large amounts of "ice" were seized.
Police reported it as being "crystal methamphetamine" of a purity of 80%.

A very high purity compared with the recent 5kg bust of powder methamphetamine which earnt a drug dealer a rather hefty 20 yr jail term -> his was only 45-55% pure.
 
That's the correct colour of a meth test. Any much more brighter and this would indicate the presence of some pseudoephedrine. Depending on purity, the meth will react at a different rate. I have however also found that quality meth reacts rather slow. First you get a violent reaction with HCl gas being emitted, then after an average of 10 secs, there is a distinct orange colour. This is unlike MDMA which changes colour almost instantaneously when in a fairly pure form.

It must also be said that if you speed turns Marquise a pretty instant orange and your orange is quite intense, you are more than likelly have some pseudoephedrine in your speed. if your "orange" is more brown, your speed is cut with glucose.

A good second test in Perth would be Mandeline as it is readily available. Speed will turn it Aqua blue, but again, the reaction is quite faint unlike the MDx reactions. Mandeline will turn bright orange just like Marquise if there is pseudoephedrine present.
 
4-Mar was here in Perth a couple of years ago, and was very frequent too... until the lab that was producing it got shut down in Fiji...
 
It could be the reagents shelf life as you mentioned...I noticed that they don't keep well in hot and humid countries. Mine goes inactive in less than a month (don't have a fridge, but one room is cool and dark).

On the subject of 4-MAR - does it <B>always</b> look like really elongated crystals (large Epsom Salt type formatioms?)
 
Can I just point out that Meth turns Mandeline very subtly blue - sometimes very hard to see.

On the subject of the picture posted by biscuit - i know it has been posted a while ago, but who is to say erowid is 100% correct? I have tested crystals looking literally 100% identical - ie. might as well have been me taking the pic, that tested as meth. Someone who a friend knows got done with the same substance which was analysed to be 79% methamphetamine.
 
Great thread guys, i had no idea that there was a substance that closely resembled what i have always thought ice looks like. Makes me wonder what i have had in the past now.
 
Runner2 - I agree in hindsight. I think the appearance of such substances means little and could be misleading. We certainly should not be relying on appearance to identify anything. It is almost as bad as smell.

Picture removed.
 
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