NEWS: The Age 13 Jun 03: Chroming laws to be beefed up

Chroming laws to be beefed up
June 13 2003
By Liz Minchin

Victorian police will soon have the power to search and indefinitely detain children suspected of "chroming", or sniffing dangerous substances.

Under new laws, police will also be able to search without a warrant anyone under 18 and to confiscate spray paint and other types of inhalant, even though they are not prohibited substances.

Liberty Victoria yesterday criticised the legislation, calling it an "appalling breach of human rights, which would set a terrible precedent" in Victoria.

The changes were prompted by revelations early last year that children as young as 12 had been chroming under supervision at some Berry Street Victoria welfare agencies.

A parliamentary inquiry recently found that banning the sale of spray paint and other inhalants could "glamorise" chroming, and instead recommended that police be given extra power to detain substance abusers. The Drugs, Poisons and Controlled Substances (Volatile Substances) Act is expected to become law within weeks.

From: http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2003/06/12/1055220706620.html

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"Under new laws, police will also be able to search without a warrant anyone under 18 and to confiscate spray paint and other types of inhalant, even though they are not prohibited substances."

There goes nitrous, maybe they'll let you keep it if you're over 18 or in the company of a guardian...

BigTrancer

What with this and the about to be passed "new powers of detention for children 14 and over" (see today's news) we seem to be well and truly approaching a Brazil style of socio-idealism.

Now...has anyone seen SAM LOWRY ? (Brazil Joke )



What will kids turn to next? I feel reluctant to state any guesses

Sure it's really bad for your health, but what does such legislation really achieve other than perhaps chasing the users off the street. Add some extra risk to the activity and its just the thing many 14 year olds like to have on their list of "cool" things they've gotten away with

When are policy makers going to wake up and realise this sort of "cure" is a contributing factor in the ongoing cause !! Lately I've felt increasingly disillusioned about the harm minimisation approach supposedly taken by state and federal policy makers. It certainly seems to comes second to the important enforcing of social obedience 8)

But I guess I'm far from up to date on the social ramifications of this activity. I've never seen first hand anyone addicted or regular with the practice and I've not met families of users. So I may be speaking rather naively on this subject.

Although the severity of use may be greater today, such things have always been experimented with. My absolute first encounter with any attempt at getting high was sniffing lighter fluid in a hanky at 15. It was a shit feeling, the stuff tasted and smelled terrible, and all in all the whole practice was uncool. So although other's had a go, the three of us who first tried it together moved on to more interesting and less toxic things (science, girls, alcohol and that which we were continually on the lookout for, but didn't find for 2 years - pot).

One thing which was different back then is that no-one gave a fuck about us doing lighter fluid. It just seemed stupid to everyone. Maybe it was the lack of any real shock value that allowed us to quickly see it for what it really is

I think kids should rediscover bananadine, that shit was the bomb way back when we couldn't get drugs...

BigTrancer

Shit yeah! nothing like lying back there after indulging, totally spaced by the intoxicating affects.

We also knew one guy who got really high smoking Port Royal tobacco...er...um...er....well he actually thought it was a joint, and my mate who rolled it for him had told him it was the best shit around

Big Trancer - what's bananadine? (if not a joke)

As crazy as it sounds, the best thing to do to chromers would probably be to take their cans and give 'em an ounce of good weed!

I've worked with young people who sniff paint (chroming), and I used to think it was more to do with a lack of availability of other safer drugs (eg marijuana).

I asked one of the young people I worked with one day, if someone offered them the choice of pot or paint, which would they choose. They said they'd take the paint. They didn't like the effects of cannabis, and prefered chroming.

It was pretty disturbing really, especially as we were beginning to see the early signs of pretty major neurological disfunction (hallucinations etc), but there was basically nothing anyone could do to reason with a 15 year old who's lived a really tough life (to put it mildly).

Paint sniffing has always occured to an extent, but it seems in disadvantaged communities it can get way out of hand. I've heard of parties with 50-80 kids sniffing paint. That's something thats only really started happening in the last few years, and I think it has a lot to do with increasing social / economic disadvantage.

For young people with no sense (or hope) of a future, there's no reason not to kill your brain cells with $5 spray paint from Crazy Clarks.

These laws being introduced in Victoria won't achieve anything in terms of preventing chroming. In fact, if it encourages police to approach paint sniffers, there's the risk they might run away, potentially causing "sudden sniffing death" from the excertion.

The most important harm reduction advice for chromers (aside from don't do it) is to use a filter made from a cardboard toilet roll, stuffed with toilet paper (or something similar). This can filter the paint from the gas, and prevent people from asphyxiating if their lungs become coated in paint.

Also, chromers under the influence should avoid sudden movements, running around, or any high stress situation (eg police searching you) etc. Even getting a fright can cause "sudden sniffing death". Its not that common, but has been known to happen when someone is caught chroming by police, teachers, or parents.

Milk seems useful for calming down chromers who are under the influence and having a hard time. I'm not sure if its placebo but I used it to great effect one day after a kid's plastic bag full of paint exploded all over his face. A police officer found him in the drain (where people seem to love chroming) and brought him to us. We had to calm him down first, then get the turps out and clean his face up. Very unpleasant, but indicative of much deeper problems than substance misuse alone.

Excellent post Flexistentialist. Very informative. I'd never heard of sudden sniffing death. Any good references on this or the conditions leading to it?

Perhaps from the law point of view, these changes will allow them to take the cans off the kids, instead of having the kids just be able to say 'fuck you, you can't touch me I'm under 18'?

BigTrancer

phase_dancer - I found this on "sudden sniffing death".

Trichlorofluoromethane is also used as an aerosol propellant. This compound makes the heart muscle overly sensitive to adrenaline, so any sudden exertion can trigger a heart attack

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Its from this website with more info on volatile substances than you'll ever need to know.

The Qld Commission for Children and Young People recently put out an excellent report of volatile substances, including a harm reduction section as well. They can be downloaded from here.

BT - I agree that the law was changed mostly due to police frustration at not being able to at least legally confiscate the paint or whatever, when it's obviously being misused (like sparyed in a coke can). I've spoken with police about this, and I understand their frustration.

My fear is the way this law will be enforced. When I worked with paint sniffers, our local police liason officer would talk the young people into throwing their paint in the bin, and then coming down to the local youth service for somethig to eat, and for playstation 2 - great drawcard

It didn't take any special law to achieve this, just good communication skills, and a close relationship to the community where these young people live.

I get really nervous at the thought of some rookie cop dealing with a 14 year old paint sniffer. I don't think they have the skills or sensitivity to understand exactly what they are dealing with.

I was also a little puzzled by the article's mention of "indefinate detention" for paint sniffers. I'm wondering how this is going to work. I understand the idea behind removing these young people from vulnerable situations, but I'm not sure if the police are the ones that should be taking on this role.

I suppose I can see the point regarding the police and their frustration and I'm sure the legislation will stop a few, but in reality I can't see it having any real affect in decreasing the practice. User determination and all, I'm sure new ways of getting around this will be already in place. The hangouts might change, perhaps to being further out of public view, but there's also potential trouble with this, as kids could end up being further away from help should they need it. Better in the main street drain than outer town limits in the bush somewhere.

While a lot of sniffers may be reluctant to change "brand" there are many substitutes for paint or glue, some of which would be difficult to instantly associate with sniffing. As Flexistentialist points out for many of these kids, the problems are far greater than what sniffing alone indicates. How about the money being spent on legislation being instead used to put an educational package together?
Perhaps it could even include a list of least toxic to most toxic products. I know this is probably far from practical to implement, but sweeping the problem under the carpet is just more of the same IMO

Thanks for the links Flexistenlialist, some interesting stuff. I should have thought of CCl3F, as other similar halogenated compounds are well known for this, but I'd never heard of the condition being triggered by fright exersion etc. Makes perfect sense though, a sudden burst of adrenaline and it could be all over 8(

My fear is the way this law will be enforced. When I worked with paint sniffers, our local police liason officer would talk the young people into throwing their paint in the bin, and then coming down to the local youth service for somethig to eat, and for playstation 2 - great drawcard

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Nice work! That's a great idea.

BigTrancer :D

great info in this thread. time for me to add some crap!

...but seriously, all these kids need is a block and hammer, some hot cars, and an oven, and they have all the ingredients for a ripper panel beating shop! they could even shift stolen goods out the back! puts a new spin on the old addage "getting high on your own supply"

*bump*

Some interesting research released on paint sniffing.

Study links foster care and paint sniffing

There is more concern regarding foster care in Queensland with Brisbane-based research finding an alarming correlation between foster care and chronic paint sniffing.

Youth Affairs Network Queensland director Siyavash Doostkhah says paint sniffing can be seen as a symptom of the abuse and trauma young people experience.

He says that is clearly obvious from the study, which found 50 per cent of children who have experienced foster care are regularly "chroming" or paint sniffing.

He says the only solution is to give the Department of Families far more resources to monitor and control foster care arrangements.

"Prohibition hasn't worked in any way," he said.

"You can ban sprays, [but] they all sniff glue.

"Prohibition doesn't work, it's about actually looking, seeing what is the issue here behind it.

"These are the symptoms, sniffing petrol, sniffing aerosols stuff like that.

"They are the symptoms of a much larger problem and unless we come and try to deal with those problems we are not a smart state, we are backwards."

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From ABC News Website.

Flexistentialist said:

I've worked with young people who sniff paint (chroming), and I used to think it was more to do with a lack of availability of other safer drugs (eg marijuana).

I asked one of the young people I worked with one day, if someone offered them the choice of pot or paint, which would they choose. They said they'd take the paint. They didn't like the effects of cannabis, and prefered chroming.

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Maybe nitrous oxide instead

*BUMP*

Blitz on chroming teens
Patrick O'Neil, youth reporter
21jun04

TEENAGERS high on spray paint fumes can be arrested and detained by police in new powers that begin in 10 days.

Police will confiscate cans and search teenagers who are inhaling or about to inhale.

Doctors warn that chroming can cause brain damage, seizures and instant death.

Other side-effects include aggression, vomiting, slurred speech, hallucinations, seizures, stomach ulcers, nose bleeds, headaches and breathing difficulties.

Drug experts said chroming, or inhaling spray paint fumes, is most often done by 10 to 15-year-olds.

Under new laws, teens can be taken in police cars and detained in interview or waiting rooms at the station.

Police will first try to contact the youths' parents and can direct them to the Department of Human Services.

Drug-affected teenagers will only be detained if police are concerned they may harm themselves or others.

Those arrested cannot legally be locked in police cells.

DHS and police said they did not expect young people to be held for long periods.

The affects of chroming last about 20 to 30 minutes, longer if combined with other drugs.

Use of inhalants will not be a criminal offence and those detained will not be charged.

Retailers are advised not to sell materials to teenagers if they suspect they will be used for inhalant purposes, but cannot be charged for doing so.

Sen-Sgt Phil Harrison, from the Victoria Police Drug and Alcohol Strategy Unit, said the legal changes were about protecting the health of young people.

"We acknowledge these acts occur," he said.

"We can connect these young people with a parent, guardian or suitable person. But if that person is affected will we let them go? No."

Sen-Sgt Harrison said police had a range of options -- from contacting the child's parents, to calling an ambulance, to notifying DHS -- before detaining the teenager.

Indigenous teenagers caught chroming will be referred to the appropriate indigenous agency.

"This is a health issue, it is not a criminal issue," Sen-Sgt Harrison said.

Department of Human Services director of drug policy and services Paul McDonald said police would be able to transport a drug-affected teenager to drug and alcohol centres instead of detaining them.

At the centre teenagers would be given a health check and a brief education about the harms of inhalant use before their parents were contacted and a follow-up appointment made.

The police powers will be reviewed in two years.

From: http://www.heraldsun.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5478,9904325%5E2862,00.html

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BigTrancer

This is a health issue, it is not a criminal issue," Sen-Sgt Harrison said.

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Shouldn't all drug abuse be a health issue not a criminal issue?

Queensland has introduced similar legislation which comes into effect at the end of this month. It's remarkably alike the legislation described in BT's article.

I'm not sure of the specifics of the Victorian situation, but I'll give a brief overview of the Qld laws. As I've already said, I've got major reservations about the way this legislation is going to be enforced.

Firstly, Qld police will be forcefully taking young people who are chroming off the streets and to their parents or guardians. What about homeless young people who come from violent / dangerous / abusive home environments? All the research to date has indicated that the young people most likely to come into police contact for chroming will be homeless young people, most of whom come from exactly these types of extremely disfunctional families.

How is a police officer meant to assess the safety of a young person's home environment at 3am when they've picked up six 13-15 year olds? Qld police will try to call the Department of Child Safety crisis team, who they soon discover is made up of 2(!) people manning a phone line after hours. They are unable to do anything.

So they call an ambulance. And what treatment does an ambulance provide? Um, nothing. The young person will be sober by the time an ambulance arrives. Hospital emergency departments refuse to see young people who are chroming, because they don't want to become defacto child minding services, which is fair enough.

So where do the young people end up? In Victoria, it sounds like they'll be kept in police interview rooms, which is probably in breach of the UN Convention on the Rights of the Child.

Here in Qld, the government is giving small amounts of money to community based agencies to develop "Safe Places" where young people who are chroming can be taken. These safe places have been so poorly funded that a number of them will be operated by volunteers(!). The legislation in Qld has no provision for detaining young people in a "safe place" so in effect, young people are free to leave as soon as they get there.

This type of legislation will really only effect homeless young people. If you have a house, chances are the police won't catch you chroming. These laws are specifically designed to deal with public chroming, yet they completely ignore the real issues effecting these young people.

As with any other drug "problem", the police are not the ones that should be responding to this. Chroming is symptomatic of complex social conditions including severe family breakdown, violence, sexual and physical abuse (to name a few). Responding to these social problems with legislation is short-sighted and useless.

If the government really gave a shit about the health and welfare of these young people, they'd be funding innovative solutions that deal with the underlying causes of chroming. Instead, the only "problem" this law will address is one of public chroming, and then it addresses that problem by pushing these young people away from public view.

It's extremely frustrating watching this sort of shit go on. Many people in the youth sector are frothing at the mouth over this issue. It's going to be in the papers much more in the coming weeks as the police get their heads around their new role as family therapist / social worker.

i knew a guy that used to bring marijuana into arhnem land, under the blesssings of some of the elders there, because when the pot runs out the kids all hit the solvents.
and since theyre all aboriginal and extremely good at tracking peoples movements, nobody there can grow, cos people rip plants as soon as they get some leaves, cant grow secretly cos people will track down your crop and smoke the seedlings!