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Cabergoline vs opiatewithdrawel?

7

77bitt

Greenlighter
Joined
Feb 1, 2018
Messages
8
Hey, im currently tapering off bupe, at 2 mg at the moment. Trying prepare for going off and have some caber lying around. Any thoughts on it being effective or not? Any experience with it??
 
Hi, I've never used this medication so I can't say if cabergoline would be effective for opiate withdrawal. I'm going to move this to Other Drugs and perhaps someone experienced with this can help you out. Welcome to Bluelight!
 
Don't really see how it would help with withdrawl but there is some interesting data out there about how it affects the male refractory period which in theory would allow men to experience multiple orgasms and eliminate that period after ejaculation where you are unable to maintain an erection and have sex again until after a certain time period. I believe it does this by inhibiting the hormones responsible for the refractory period which if IIRC are oxytocin and prolactin.

I think it's main use is in treating Parkinson's and some types of tumours and sometimes used off label as an antidepressant.

Would need to look it up, but as far as I understand it, I'm not sure of any mechanisms by which it would help opiate withdrawls....not directly any way.
 
One thing that jumps out at me right away is the fact that this is a Dopamine2 Agonist, which could make it reasonably effective for treating Restless Legs/Akathisia. Restless Legs are my most-dreaded withdrawal symptom, so should this be an effective treatment, I wouldn't be surprised if this drug could provide some relief to you.
 
Odd--at 1am this morning someone asked about another D2 & D3 agonist, ropinirole/Requip.

I've heard, and had to be around, people withdrawing from opioids, and one side effect seems to be a state of arousal in men. Frequent encounters with soft fabric were enough to trigger acuate reactions.

That's a side effect of ropinirole too. Along with nausea and hallucinations. Could all be a lot to throw together.
 
I just read naked lunch where the author applauds apomorphine for opiatwithdrawel.... Apom is a dopamineagonist and i was under the belief that dopaminelevels has something to do with opiatewithdrawel? Thats why i thought caber could attentuate symptoms. Dont know, though. And one has to be very careful using das, too much causes nausea, hallucinations etc. Went from 4 to 2 mg subutex on wednsday... No sleep last night, itchy muscles, halfnauseated.... First 12 hours after injestion is fine, but the effect runs out a bit now.... Been on sub for 4 years at 16 mg. Been a junkie since 2000, but been living a "normal" life last 4years. Feel the sub takes away some of ME, so want to stop.... But it sucks
 
Scrofula said:
Odd--at 1am this morning someone asked about another D2 & D3 agonist, ropinirole/Requip.

I've heard, and had to be around, people withdrawing from opioids, and one side effect seems to be a state of arousal in men. Frequent encounters with soft fabric were enough to trigger acuate reactions.

That's a side effect of ropinirole too. Along with nausea and hallucinations. Could all be a lot to throw together.
Click to expand...

Its true.... Taking a piss feels almost painfull with stimulation...
 
Backfromthebrink said:
Don't really see how it would help with withdrawl but there is some interesting data out there about how it affects the male refractory period which in theory would allow men to experience multiple orgasms and eliminate that period after ejaculation where you are unable to maintain an erection and have sex again until after a certain time period. I believe it does this by inhibiting the hormones responsible for the refractory period which if IIRC are oxytocin and prolactin.

I think it's main use is in treating Parkinson's and some types of tumours and sometimes used off label as an antidepressant.

Would need to look it up, but as far as I understand it, I'm not sure of any mechanisms by which it would help opiate withdrawls....not directly any way.
Click to expand...

Found this.... https://www.opiate-freedom-center.c...ly-increase-your-bodies-endorphins-serotonin/
 
Keif' Richards said:
this is a Dopamine2 Agonist, which could make it reasonably effective for treating Restless Legs/Akathisia
Click to expand...

OK, that cleared up an issue I had with all the opioid WD "restless legs" reports (I'll probably experience it soon enough): I've had bouts of what seem to be "Restless Legs Syndrome" that is very much different from the incredible leg bouncing I do withdrawing from alcohol.

The first one happens when I'm relaxed before bed, but other than that I haven't found a pattern. Comes in infrequent clusters of evenings, with long asymptomatic stretches. It feels most like a foot is falling asleep, and the urge to give the leg a little shake is impossible to ignore. So you can't fall asleep. Haven't had it since starting gabapentin. Before that, only dph and trying tight high socks seemed to help. Began during the worst of uncontrolled diabetes and boozing (and smoking, and low activity, didn't shave every day).

Then there's going through alcohol WD. There's no sensation there, but somehow keeping my legs moving, bouncing in place, beyond exhaustion, for hours, each in turn for a good 36 hrs, is "calming". I haven't found a fucking thing for that yet, other than not drinking. I guess that'd be akathisia to a doctor, "restless legs" to descriptive English speakers.

But in that case, the causes are (prob.) different. But I guess if the symptoms are the same, you could still have the same treatment. I wouldn't want to rush to a dopamine agonist on the off chance it could help with an acute withdrawal symptom, though.

Common side effects are constipation, which could help the WD shits, but also nausea, vomiting, which wouldn't. Sleep disturbance (too much or too little), depression and hallucinations all seem like things you don't want to add to an opiate WD.

But OP, you seem to have probably used it before, and know better what to expect.
 
Scrofula said:
OK, that cleared up an issue I had with all the opioid WD "restless legs" reports (I'll probably experience it soon enough): I've had bouts of what seem to be "Restless Legs Syndrome" that is very much different from the incredible leg bouncing I do withdrawing from alcohol.

The first one happens when I'm relaxed before bed, but other than that I haven't found a pattern. Comes in infrequent clusters of evenings, with long asymptomatic stretches. It feels most like a foot is falling asleep, and the urge to give the leg a little shake is impossible to ignore. So you can't fall asleep. Haven't had it since starting gabapentin. Before that, only dph and trying tight high socks seemed to help. Began during the worst of uncontrolled diabetes and boozing (and smoking, and low activity, didn't shave every day).

Then there's going through alcohol WD. There's no sensation there, but somehow keeping my legs moving, bouncing in place, beyond exhaustion, for hours, each in turn for a good 36 hrs, is "calming". I haven't found a fucking thing for that yet, other than not drinking. I guess that'd be akathisia to a doctor, "restless legs" to descriptive English speakers.

But in that case, the causes are (prob.) different. But I guess if the symptoms are the same, you could still have the same treatment. I wouldn't want to rush to a dopamine agonist on the off chance it could help with an acute withdrawal symptom, though.

Common side effects are constipation, which could help the WD shits, but also nausea, vomiting, which wouldn't. Sleep disturbance (too much or too little), depression and hallucinations all seem like things you don't want to add to an opiate WD.

But OP, you seem to have probably used it before, and know better what to expect.
Click to expand...

I get restless legs, feels like my muscles are itching.... Want to move them and flex the muscles.... Sometimes hard, but still feel weak as hell. Believe off label use of caber is restless leg syndrome.

Ive tried it, keeping the dose low is important to avoid nausea and hallucinations etc.

Isnt alcohol working on some of the same receptors as opiates?
 
77bitt said:
I get restless legs, feels like my muscles are itching.... Want to move them and flex the muscles.... Sometimes hard, but still feel weak as hell. Believe off label use of caber is restless leg syndrome.

Ive tried it, keeping the dose low is important to avoid nausea and hallucinations etc.

Isnt alcohol working on some of the same receptors as opiates?
Click to expand...

Wikipedia claims you need doses like you're treating Parkinson's for RLS, but no reference. Enough to hallucinate your legs are twitchy from all the bugs, or to distract you with your constant lust-boner. I'm thinking an editor got that one wrong.

Alcohol does not directly involve opioid receptors, but they overlap in ways no one understands very well. I can see how they'd overlap in withdrawal, but there's also some big differences. I don't think opioid's WD agitation is identical to alcohol's, since it doesn't progress to convulsions. And I've been spared opioid WD (so far) to compare.

77bitt said:
Apom is a dopamineagonist and i was under the belief that dopaminelevels has something to do with opiatewithdrawel? Thats why i thought caber could attentuate symptoms.
Click to expand...

Carbergoline and apomorphine use different dopamine circuits than the ones that get you hooked on drugs. They use the more Naked Lunch-esque circuits blamed for delusions and psychoses, the ones that give meth its special tin foil magic. I think it was a helpful delusion for Burroughs, maybe.
 
Yeah I wouldn't jump straight into a high dose of caber, it's pretty unpleasant when you do that, and even tiny doses are reasonable at controlling RLS (at least, they are for me).
 
Scrofula said:
Wikipedia claims you need doses like you're treating Parkinson's for RLS, but no reference. Enough to hallucinate your legs are twitchy from all the bugs, or to distract you with your constant lust-boner. I'm thinking an editor got that one wrong.

Alcohol does not directly involve opioid receptors, but they overlap in ways no one understands very well. I can see how they'd overlap in withdrawal, but there's also some big differences. I don't think opioid's WD agitation is identical to alcohol's, since it doesn't progress to convulsions. And I've been spared opioid WD (so far) to compare.



Carbergoline and apomorphine use different dopamine circuits than the ones that get you hooked on drugs. They use the more Naked Lunch-esque circuits blamed for delusions and psychoses, the ones that give meth its special tin foil magic. I think it was a helpful delusion for Burroughs, maybe.
Click to expand...

Hehe, i see. There might be a reason for i not catching on.... Been tried and tested, though.... Worked to some degree, but better results on alcoholics than opiataddicts, it seems.
 
CFC said:
Yeah I wouldn't jump straight into a high dose of caber, it's pretty unpleasant when you do that, and even tiny doses are reasonable at controlling RLS (at least, they are for me).
Click to expand...

Jea, i would think so. A lot of testemony to it beeing unpleasant....
So youve got rls or just in opiatewithdrawel? And what doses are you using?
Ive used it at .25 mg every 3 days with no sideeffects to speak of.
 
Btw ive also seen a couple of threads on guys using steroids/testosterone to alleviate opiatewitdrawel.... Any thoughts? On steroidboards i read warnings about using opiats when ON steroids as it supposedly makes it easier to get addicted....

Anyway if caber relieves rls (for me i feel itching in the muscles, all over really... Thinking its the same as rls?) its worth having at hand. That feeling is awfull....

Its still some time untill i go off completely, gonna stabalize on 2 mg, then 0,8 i guess, perhaps even 1,2.... Etc... And perhaps even patches after that.... But ill try it out if things get really bad and tell you guys about it, good or bad. ANY little thing one might do that helps is gold in my book...
 
77bitt said:
Btw ive also seen a couple of threads on guys using steroids/testosterone to alleviate opiatewitdrawel.... Any thoughts? On steroidboards i read warnings about using opiats when ON steroids as it supposedly makes it easier to get addicted....

Anyway if caber relieves rls (for me i feel itching in the muscles, all over really... Thinking its the same as rls?) its worth having at hand. That feeling is awfull....

Its still some time untill i go off completely, gonna stabalize on 2 mg, then 0,8 i guess, perhaps even 1,2.... Etc... And perhaps even patches after that.... But ill try it out if things get really bad and tell you guys about it, good or bad. ANY little thing one might do that helps is gold in my book...
Click to expand...

One think I can testify to with absolute certainty is that steroids/testosterone will absolutely not help opiate withdrawl...I've used steroids for over 22 years.....while testosterone may induce a general sense of wellbeing in some people it wouldn't do anything at all to alleviate withdrawl...it just doesn't work on those mechanisms...

I'm not sure what thread that was that you've read but if conclude that whoever said anabolic steroids can be used to treat opiate withdrawl doesn't know what they are talking about

Also no truth to the statement that taking opiates while on steroids makes it more likely that you will get addicted...again, absolute nonsense.
 
77bitt said:
Jea, i would think so. A lot of testemony to it beeing unpleasant....
So youve got rls or just in opiatewithdrawel? And what doses are you using?
Ive used it at .25 mg every 3 days with no sideeffects to speak of.
Click to expand...

No not opiates, just natural RLS. 125mcg - 500mcg works for me. I prefer clonidine for RLS though.
 
CFC said:
No not opiates, just natural RLS. 125mcg - 500mcg works for me. I prefer clonidine for RLS though.
Click to expand...

So you not find clonidine makes you hung over as fuck? Especially if taken before bed? I had a shit ton in the house that were prescribed when I came of my painkiller prescription, and I occasionally took about 100mcg at night to help me sleep but I binned what I had left due to the hangover effect from them...not to mention the plummeting BP if you get up to quick to go for a piss in the night haha!
 
Yeah 100mcg would make me sleepy the next day; 50mcg is a reasonable dose (for me) to take the edge off without impacting BP/grogginess. It's certainly not something I'd want to use continuously though; I prefer to rotate my options - even beta-blockers can work somewhat for RLS.
 
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