Bupe My short sub detox to treat short oxy addiction thread. Please comment.

Previous dependence: Oxy 30mg for 8 weeks post operation

I spent five days in a detox, coming off of clonidine and Oxy. I was inducted at the 26^th hour. I had minor withdrawals but was medicated to contain them (clonidine and 1mg Valium I took myself before detox), so it was likely worse than I knew.

I believe I was inducted at 6mg. It was dropped two days later to 4 mg. I was sent home.

The plan was to keep at 4mg the next three days, then go to 2mg for four days, then quit.

This sounded like a great plan. But I began to panic because of three things:

1). My pain doctor said he had never heard of sub being used for a short term taper.
2). Knowledgeable people online said it wouldn’t work
3). Christmas is upon us and if I finished the program and got sick, I would have no access to doctors apart from the ER.

So I tweaked the program to both extend the sub use past the oxy w/ds without becoming dependent on the subs.
I have a family doc appointment in three days and a psych appointment in 10 days.

Day 1 and 2 in detox: 6mg
Day 3 to 5: 4mg (still needed robaxin and Tylenol for muscle aches and pain)
Day 6 to 8: 2mg (this is where I am now)
Day 9 to 10: 1mg

From there I will still have (3) 2mg suboxone tablets. If I have to reduce further or stagger doses, I have that room.

I have been feeling a little anxious but I can relax through that. My jaw keeps clenching. I have had a lot of constipation but hot prune juice and butter takes care of THAT. I sleep a lot. There have been some stomach pangs but I have bentyl and Zofran for that. Some fleeting hot and cold feelings and a fever or two already passed.
As my oxy dependence was due to post surgical pain and not experimentation or recreation, I do not worry about desiring to use again.
Has anyone tried anything similar and succeeded? Any thoughts? Thank you for being here.

I FOUND THIS ONLINE. It's proof that suboxone is used for short term opioid dependence. This is the official dosing guide for detox. Whether or not it works, after all that I have read online, is what concerns me.

http://www.naabt.org/documents/Suboxone_Dosing_guide.pdf

Do whatever feels best for you. Don't rush it, but don't prolong it either. Most doctors as far as bupe goes don't know shit. Neither do most online as it's still a very new compound in treatment and there are many methods that work for many. Some think one big dose is good enough or one big dose and a few small dose once a day a couple days following. Others a slow taper to maintainence works for them. It's definitely a good idea to prepare for the worst situation, but attempt the best situation.

Yesterday was the first day in months that I felt like myself. It was amazing. I had some cold sweats but nothing else. So I took that to indicate that my original oxy dependence was near the end. The need for suboxone has passed and I have to stop before another dependence starts. I took it for nine days.

I am sweating like a cornered thief so I broke out clonidine and took a half dose so that I can sleep.

The pain is now miserable. My hips and knees are aching and ibuprofen and lidocaine patches don't do jack shit.

After finding the below online, I decided to start staggering my remaining 2mg doses. I have four 2mg pills left. I will see my family doctor in two days and request the gabepentin, benzos, etc. that are recommended for opiate detox should the Suboxone not leave gracefully. If I am still up shit's creek, I see the psych in 8 days to get a proper taper if needed.

https://southerncaliforniadetox.com/suboxone-detox/

Suboxone Detoxification Program
The Suboxone detoxification program is divided into three distinct phases:
Induction
Stabilization
Taper
Suboxone Detox – Induction
Induction is the first phase of stabilizing an opiate addict. Suboxone is the first tablet administered sublingually after the user shows signs of opiate withdrawals.
Suboxone Detox – Stabilization
Suboxone replaces the opened opiate receptors in the brain. The stabilization phase is an individualized medication adjustment period that lasts between twenty-four to 36 hours.
Suboxone Detox – Taper
We have seen the greatest success when physicians that use a 3 day step down. The medication dosage drops 2mg every two to three The final taper is a stagger; 2mg every other day for three additional administrations.

This is now 30 hours since my last sub dose of 2mg. I cut a 2mg tablet into 3 pieces just in case I need to rescue myself. I don`t want to start at too high of a dose.

I was only on subs for 9 days.

The clonidine is partially containing the sweats. What is hurting me is this incredible pain in my back and hips. It is now spreading to my forearms. It started my second day on subboxone. I don't understand its timing. None of my OTC meds are effective to do anything but soften it. Walking is very difficult. Hopefully it wil let up.

39 hours since my 2mg last dose. The pain caused me to take hot showers repeatedly last night. It's slightly better now. I have very small amounts of anxiety that worsen when I acknowledge them. There is also a feeling of low grade fever. I did not take clonidine yet and am waiting for the sweats before the indulgence. My jaw is returning to normal (it was clenching) and my personality is now coming through again.

I called the detox I linked above and spoke with a counselor. He said that my getting this far was good and that I should stagger 1mg doses every other day. Fortunately that will take me up to the meeting with the psych to get a more gradual taper if needed.

Then I vomited. While on the phone. I think that it may have been due to taking Calm Support on an empty stomach. Fortunately I scrounged up some Zofran and took 8mg. I also took a protonix.

Although he said that I could take the 1mg now, I want to see how far this goes. The sub doesn't affect the pain so I would need other symptoms to relieve. Maybe I will only be sick for a short time. I have to give myself the chance.

This pain. Oh Lord, this pain. It WILL keep me in bed if it worsens. I am no wuss. I walked with a deformed hip, bone on bone for years. This last hip was four years overdue and in catastrophic failure before I replaced it. I have spinal stenosis and neuromuscular disease. I have a connective tissue disorder. I know pain. This is misery. And my breasts hurt like hell. That is an obscure side effect of clonidine.

In the end, I would like to be someone who serves as an example of a successful short use of subs to treat post surgical dependence. I have read many stories of people who were pushed into maintenance when detox was all that they needed.

42 hours down. Just very, very tired. I can't wait until I feel comfortable taking a 2mg valium because my body is aching all over. I know they say that it isn't unsafe at that dosage, but I am a mother and that means anxious.

I haven't taken any comfort meds today (other than 2 Advil) as the temperature flashes have subsided for the most part and my muscle spasms aren't distracting. Just had a Thai tea and I think the caffeine is screwing with my relaxation. I try very hard to hold off on any pills. I want to see what I am capable of doing.

Also, I have had pains in my waist area since stopping the Oxy. Because I am learning how to walk again, I expect that my hips will be sore.

I can't wait to drive again. It's been 3 months. I can't wait to shop for groceries. I can't wait for people to stop worrying about me.

47 hour Started feeling hot and cold, and a bit antsy. The body pain is responding to Advil a bit. I took .05 clonidine and may take another .05 before bed if I don't calm down. I can take the 1mg of bupe as recommended by the detox, but not increasing my dependence it foremost in my mind. Should I try to push through this, or take more sub? I don't know and I don't have anyone in my life right now who has a clue.

And seriously, what kind of drug detox STARTS OUT with body pain and then hits you with sweats??

59 hours since taking 2mg sub. 12 days since my DOC. I ended up taking a 750mg tablet of Robaxin before sleeping. I can feel little muscle spasms upon waking.

My symptoms didn't worsen and I slept through the night. Didn't have to take showers for the pain. Haven't yet had to take additional sub. I know that this could change at any time. Not making plans for the next few days.

Going to see the doc for gabepentin, 5 days of strong Ativan, Seroquel, and whatever else I find that I may need.

The withdrawals for subs can be much longer than usual opioids due to the long lasting effect, but you were only on it for 9 says. While taking more can of course delay the dependency if you're feeling really bad it shouldn't be too bad to use a small dose. I would say even less than 1mg. You can dissolve either a 2 mg pill or one of the halfs in 1 ml them you'll have either 100/200 ug depending if you started with 1/2 mg per 10 units ok an insulin rig. 100-250 ug could even be enough to get you comfortable again. I'd recommend if you do dose again keep the max amount you can use 1 mg, but titerate the dose by 100 ug. Bupe is a strong compound and you'll be surprised how much a minute amount helps.

Seems excessive given the amount you were taking and duration, to be honest. But hey, whatever works. I'm all for using pregablin or neurontin because they take care of most of the symptoms and don't directly affect opiate receptors, so it isn't drawing out the withdrawal.

Nether Animal said:

Seems excessive given the amount you were taking and duration, to be honest. But hey, whatever works. I'm all for using pregablin or neurontin because they take care of most of the symptoms and don't directly affect opiate receptors, so it isn't drawing out the withdrawal.

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Thanks. I am thrilled to have the neurontin at my disposal. This pain has been awful. Because I have a neuro-muscular disease, similar to MS in terms of nerve damage, my response to Oxy was extremely intense. I was afraid of having that occur with the sub.

I was sent home with 20mg of sub. I still have 8 in the bottle.

The plan was 2 days on 6mg, 5 days on 4mg, and four days on 2mg, then stop.

In the end, because of my fear of dependency and the lack of access to a doctor over Christmas, I changed it to:

2 days on 6mg (detox)
4 days on 4mg (2 days in detox)
3 days on 2mg
then stop.

I was prepared to skip days but then I waited and treated the symptoms. I am now at 64 hours off of sub and my symptoms are stable with slight improvement. Woke up to sweats and anxiety but .05 clonidine took care of that.

My doc, who is not a sub expert at all, said I should be over the worst at this point when she agreed to prescribe the neurontin. She also took a family history of addiction and mental illness and concluded that I likely have a genetic predisposition to addiction.

If I can somehow make this short taper work, then I have something to offer to other people in my position. My experience will not be in vain. I literally had multiple doctors tell me that subs were never intended for short term detox. I found the evidence otherwise. I can imagine numerous people being dragged into sub maintenance because of this belief.

I am so appreciative of this site and the help that I have been given.

tacodude said:

The withdrawals for subs can be much longer than usual opioids due to the long lasting effect, but you were only on it for 9 says. While taking more can of course delay the dependency if you're feeling really bad it shouldn't be too bad to use a small dose. I would say even less than 1mg. You can dissolve either a 2 mg pill or one of the halfs in 1 ml them you'll have either 100/200 ug depending if you started with 1/2 mg per 10 units ok an insulin rig. 100-250 ug could even be enough to get you comfortable again. I'd recommend if you do dose again keep the max amount you can use 1 mg, but titerate the dose by 100 ug. Bupe is a strong compound and you'll be surprised how much a minute amount helps.

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Thank you. I did push off taking another dose until I saw what the next day brought. Now that I am here, my symptoms have slightly improved. I still walk around with a crumb of the 2mg tablet in case I something happens that I can't breathe through and I am away from home.

Leaving the house has been very difficult because of the fatigue and pain. I had no idea how this was going to go.

People in my position are often told online that we are going to suffer tremendously if we don't taper to .125mg over time. We are often frightened into staying on subs. If I can show that a short taper works for post-surgical addiction (short term), then there is another voice to listen to. Of course, if I get super sick in the next few days, I'm up shit's creek.

Family doc gave me gabepentin and declared that I am probably past the worst. While I love her, she is so bupe naive that she tried to prescribe it to me, with Oxycontin for tapering. She didn't know she needed the class. She didn't know it was to replace Oxycontin.

Anyway, coming up on 72 hours. No new developments. I read a story about a man who also did a short taper, but it looked like this:

16, 16, 16, 8 ,8, 4, 2 and he had withdrawals two weeks later.

Things I don't understand pt. 574.

Wowgreat job. I had to go to the street and get my supply. I now have 10 2mg dose of Suboxone. I have already broke it op and have keen weight it out in dosage very carefully. I am on hour 30 from my last 2mg of dilaudid (Hydromorphone). I was tapering down for the past 2 or 3 weeks. From about 8 x 8mg (64mg) day to 3 x 4mg (12mg) a day. That was tough as over Christmas I had to play nice. I am going to wait until hour 36 to take my first dose. Question; If I don't plan on being on Suboxone for very long, should I do a dosage or 4 or 8mg? Just to get. induced

wolf359loki said:

Wowgreat job. I had to go to the street and get my supply. I now have 10 2mg dose of Suboxone. I have already broke it op and have keen weight it out in dosage very carefully. I am on hour 30 from my last 2mg of dilaudid (Hydromorphone). I was tapering down for the past 2 or 3 weeks. From about 8 x 8mg (64mg) day to 3 x 4mg (12mg) a day. That was tough as over Christmas I had to play nice. I am going to wait until hour 36 to take my first dose. Question; If I don't plan on being on Suboxone for very long, should I do a dosage or 4 or 8mg? Just to get. induced

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Don't forget this: http://www.naabt.org/documents/cows_induction_flow_sheet.pdf

I would start at 1mg and wait. You want to feel something if you are coming right off. It's hard because you want that relief but how you start influences how you finish. I was inducted at 6mg and that was way too much for my 30mg day habit.

This is a tool for detox, not the comfort of maintenance.

After that, others can help more than me. I'm new, too! And good luck.

83 hours with no real worsening. Can still sleep. But this pain isn't subsiding significantly.

Have occasional tears but otherwise, I'm good right now. I just had a hot flash last for two minutes. Trying not to take comfort meds but rally getting worn down by the pain and the weakness in my legs. Chances are, the weakness is due to being on bed rest for over a month, but the opiates aren't helping.

Was going to try to drive today. I'm about to take my vitamins. If I feel better, I will go to the store..

At the doctor's yesterday, she said that I was low on potassium and Vitamin D and that I had a UTI in the hospital. Could explain my hard recovery.

I've given it a lot of thought and I don't want to risk dependence on the gabepentin. Have to slog through. I really hope I turn the corner soon. I don't know if this is still the Oxy w/d or if I became dependent on the sub. Or maybe dependency is a myth and it's all about the amount of opiates in your blood and how you respond to them.

Wrapping up my fourth day off subs/13th day off oxycodone.

I still have a lot of pain but I think that is due to the oxy as it started after induction.

Other minor issues are handled with less than .1 clonidine per day. It messes with my blood pressure poorly so I have to be diligent.

I drove to the store! I could not drive while on opiates so this was awesome. First time in three months. I was a bit stiff and it exhausted me but I still made dinner. I took 1mg valium because I was becoming miserable to my kids. Now I am going to sleep because if w/d worsens to include insomnia, I may not do it for a while.

I think I hear the sushi beckon: SUNOMONO! AGADASHI TOFU! Ok, those are more like side dishes, but I like them too. You can make it!

ElleAZ said:

Wrapping up my fourth day off subs/13th day off oxycodone.

I still have a lot of pain but I think that is due to the oxy as it started after induction.

Other minor issues are handled with less than .1 clonidine per day. It messes with my blood pressure poorly so I have to be diligent.

I drove to the store! I could not drive while on opiates so this was awesome. First time in three months. I was a bit stiff and it exhausted me but I still made dinner. I took 1mg valium because I was becoming miserable to my kids. Now I am going to sleep because if w/d worsens to include insomnia, I may not do it for a while.

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Great job!!

I am at about the 60 hour mark ang only 2mg of suboxone so far. I am having some problems but not to bad. Some pail (phantom I'm sure) insomnia is better, ang gastronomy problems.

So far no major cravings and no anxiety to use or seek. That is so much better than my past attempts.

I will check back later.

wolf359loki said:

Great job!!

I am at about the 60 hour mark ang only 2mg of suboxone so far. I am having some problems but not to bad. Some pail (phantom I'm sure) insomnia is better, ang gastronomy problems.

So far no major cravings and no anxiety to use or seek. That is so much better than my past attempts.

I will check back later.

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I hope with all my heart that this works for you. I would love to give encouragement to people who don't need the long term benefits that sub provides. I admire sub for what it can bring to a hurting person. My hurts are just different.

For your belly, I have three stomach meds: Zofran (nausea), Protonix (reflux) and Bentyl (cramps). I haven't needed them more than once. I have also been mega dosing on Vitamin C (20g 3 x day) to treat my inside with healing nutrients. It was the only thing that helped with opiate constipation that didn't hurt.

If this is it, I would be grateful. Every debt needs to be paid. I understand that.

Beginning Day 5, I feel a bit better. Still hurt, but not as much. I ended up having anxiety and restlessness last night presumably directly related to an issue at home. I am so protective of my sleep that I took the entire 2mg of Valium pill and I am curious if that could be the reason for the improvement. I hope not.

I am CRYING. Crying my fool eyes out. But it feels good. It feels amazing because I haven't been dealing with some major devastating events. I lost my mother 11/14, my mother-in-law in 12/15, my father-in-law in 11/16, and my husband's best friend last month. I was diagnosed with a potentially terminal disease (systemic scleroderma) in 6/14. My husband had six surgeries this year and our insurance was cancelled before the first. We have been living with stress and emotional exhaustion for YEARS before this horrible surgery and addiction. And I am letting it all out. It feels cleansing. It's like a reset button.

I've also been leaning on God and Christ in ways I haven't been able to previously because I got in my own way. But I think this cleared things up enormously. I needed comfort and hope and the belief that this has a purpose in my life, and Christ provided that for me at no cost but faith. So this emotional purge is an amazing tool that I embrace.

I may have still sushi, BUT my husband shyly asked if I thought I was up for Zoolights. This is my niece's first Christmas with us, so I think we're going! Pics to follow. What the hell, right?

Scrofula said:

I think I hear the sushi beckon: SUNOMONO! AGADASHI TOFU! Ok, those are more like side dishes, but I like them too. You can make it!

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It would be such a delight to finally go back to my life. THANK YOU for answering my questions. You are very patient and knowledgeable, and even though I am obsessive and silly, you were kind.

Soon to wrap day 5. Woke up feeling chipper so I got a pedi and lunch with my niece. Came home to find that I spent all of my energy for the day. I literally crawled into my nightgown and I am waiting to finish dinner. Pulled pork sandwiches.

My stomach is acting up so I will take those meds right now. Hoping not to need clonidine because my breasts hurt so much.

Could this be it? The worst is over?