• 💊 OTHER DRUGS 💊 Welcome Guest
    Posting Rules Bluelight Rules
    Notable Threads 1 Notable Threads 2
    Dangerous Combos Addiction Support
    Emergency Services Benzo Guide v.1
    Addiction Stories Scary Case Studies
    Biology, Pharmacology & Drugs 101
  • Select Your Topic Then Scroll Down
    Alcohol Bupe Benzos
    Cocaine Heroin Opioids
    RCs Stimulants Misc
    Harm Reduction All Topics Gabapentinoids
    Tired of your habit? Struggling to cope?
    Want to regain control or get sober?
    Visit our Recovery Support Forums

Stimulants Vyvanse lasts about 4 hours for me... Advice?

R

ratonlaveur

Greenlighter
Joined
Mar 13, 2017
Messages
12
Hey guys. Long time lurker here looking for advice. I'll try to keep it as short as possible.

Stimulants barely last long for me at all. The longest coverage I can get is maybe 4 hours with Vyvanse. I've also tried Addy XR, IR, Dexedrine, Focalin, and modafinil all at various doses.

Does anyone have any clue why these things keep crapping out on me so early? (leaving me fatigued, depressed, etc)

I got a genetics test that said for the COMT genotype I have the met/met polymorphism, which they say is associated with reduced response to stimulants. Is this a nail in the coffin for me for finding a med that works? (please no strattera or intuniv)

Dx: ADHD, MDD
Rx: Wellbutrin SR, Lexapro, Atenolol, Buspar

I've tried watching what I eat and avoiding acidic foods (and tried Tums).

Really desperate for some input. I'm working with my doctor on this and we're both pretty stumped. Thanks a lot guys.
 
I'm just expecting to focus, have motivation, and energy. For a while I was chasing the euphoria, but I realized that was transient. But I'm still sure they don't last, as I will get a comedown and feel fatigued / depressed way earlier than I should
 
Are you on it legally and correctly? If so speak to your doctor you may need an increase or change times of medication, if not I suggest you should lololol
 
Hahaha yeaa I am under the supervision of a doc. But he's just as stumped as I am, so I'd like to have ideas to bring up
 
Your doctors saying basically idk man you got anyideas? Lol what. If my car broke and the mechanic said idk you got any ideas id get a new mechanic.
 
Wow, I have Comt Val/Val and Vyvanse Also lasts only 4-6 hours for me. What you read was the opposite, Met/Met people respond stronger to lesser amounts of Stimulants. But your individual metabolism determines the duration most of all, according to most doctors.

Im suprised you even get positive mood effects from stimulants with Comt Met/Met, most ADHDers who are Comt Met/Met that ive met, typically take it as a tool literally just to focus in class and on work. Whereas, Comt Val/Val tend to be the mind racing ADHDers who dont notice energy from it, just calm/contentmunt.
 
How do they measure comt and why.

Is the idea like with comt inhibitors with l dopa more reaches the brain ?

Or that comt interacts with dopamine and norepinephrine in the brain
 
Take a tolerance break. Whether or not you legitimately have ADHD, you are still taking an amphetamine pro-drug. Try taking a few weeks off, the shortened duration sounds much like tolerance.
 
xbandit07x said:
Wow, I have Comt Val/Val and Vyvanse Also lasts only 4-6 hours for me. What you read was the opposite, Met/Met people respond stronger to lesser amounts of Stimulants. But your individual metabolism determines the duration most of all, according to most doctors.

Im suprised you even get positive mood effects from stimulants with Comt Met/Met, most ADHDers who are Comt Met/Met that ive met, typically take it as a tool literally just to focus in class and on work. Whereas, Comt Val/Val tend to be the mind racing ADHDers who dont notice energy from it, just calm/contentmunt.
Click to expand...

Haha interesting! I think you're right on the metabolism portion. I eat like a bottomless pit, everyone comments on it. So it may translate to quickly processing drugs as well.

I'd like to hear more of your experiences with ADHDers and their COMT "status". As for me, I take it for energy and focus. I have GAD, and I think that does contribute to mind-racing, I'm not sure it's ADHD-induced.

Anyway, what do you take for ADHD if vyvanse lasts a short duration for you as well?

d1nach said:
How do they measure comt and why.

Is the idea like with comt inhibitors with l dopa more reaches the brain ?

Or that comt interacts with dopamine and norepinephrine in the brain
Click to expand...

I got mine measured through a DNA test. They can do it just from a cheek swab. And I think it has to do with how COMT interacts with DA/NE in the brain.

ErgicMergic said:
Take a tolerance break. Whether or not you legitimately have ADHD, you are still taking an amphetamine pro-drug. Try taking a few weeks off, the shortened duration sounds much like tolerance.
Click to expand...

It's definitely better whenever I do take a break, but I know this isn't a tolerance-related issue, as I still have it after considerable breaks :\
 
Im skeptical comt does play a role in dopamine but for example ive read egcg in tea is a comt inhibitor then egcg increases locomotion n chronically meth treated rats. Therefore, a conclusion might be therefore comt plays a vital role in amphetamine locomotion.

However, this is misleading because yes catechol o methyl transferase is a enzyme yes egcg has a catechol group however, the direct mechanism is unlikely comt as in rats its uneffected in the brain and morelikely it protecting against damage to dopamine neurons by causes complex signaling that somehow increases the abiliy of the receptors to recover and withstand toxins that cause damage
 
Q even better example is phenylalanine is a precursor to dopamine however that doesnt mean plasma phenylalanine levels in your blood have anything to do with amphetamine efficacy
 
d1nach said:
Q even better example is phenylalanine is a precursor to dopamine however that doesnt mean plasma phenylalanine levels in your blood have anything to do with amphetamine efficacy
Click to expand...

I don’t know the science behind it, the genetic test I took was the one that connected the two and claimed that my polymorphism for COMT (met/met) was associated with « a reduced response to stimulant medications » .
 
Idk if you care i took adderall now im really nit picky about details lol

Abstract

In a widely cited study, Mattay et al. reported that amphetamine (0.25 mg/kg oral, or 17 mg for a 68 kg individual) impaired behavioral and brain indices of executive functioning, measured using the Wisconsin Card Sorting Task (WCST) and N-Back working memory task, in 6 individuals homozygous for the met allele of the val158met polymorphism in the catechol-O-methyltransferase (COMT) gene, whereas it improved executive functioning in 10 individuals homozygous for the more active val allele. We attempted to replicate their behavioral findings in a larger sample, using similar executive functioning tasks and a broader range of amphetamine doses. Over four sessions, n = 200 healthy normal adults received oral placebo, d-amphetamine 5, 10, and 20 mg (average of 0.07, 0.15 and 0.29 mg/kg), under counterbalanced double-blind conditions and completed WCST and N-back tests of executive functioning. Amphetamine had typical effects on blood pressure and processing speed but did not affect executive functioning. COMT genotype (val158met) was not related to executive functioning under placebo or amphetamine conditions, even when we compared only the homozygous val/val and met/met genotypes at the highest dose of amphetamine (20 mg). Thus, we were not able to replicate the behavioral interaction between COMT and amphetamine seen in Mattay et al. We discuss possible differences between the studies and the implications of our findings for the use of COMT genotyping to predict clinical responses to dopaminergic drugs, and the use of intermediate phenotypes in genetic research.

I only had time to click on the first link i found but it is a interesting idea.
 
Here is matty et al. Abstract

Natl Acad Sci U S A. 2003 May 13;100(10):6186-91. Epub 2003 Apr 25.
Catechol O-methyltransferase val158-met genotype and individual variation in the brain response to amphetamine.

Mattay VS1, Goldberg TE, Fera F, Hariri AR, Tessitore A, Egan MF, Kolachana B, Callicott JH, Weinberger DR.
Author information
Abstract
Monamines subserve many critical roles in the brain, and monoaminergic drugs such as amphetamine have a long history in the treatment of neuropsychiatric disorders and also as a substance of abuse. The clinical effects of amphetamine are quite variable, from positive effects on mood and cognition in some individuals, to negative responses in others, perhaps related to individual variations in monaminergic function and monoamine system genes. We explored the effect of a functional polymorphism (val(158)-met) in the catechol O-methyltransferase gene, which has been shown to modulate prefrontal dopamine in animals and prefrontal cortical function in humans, on the modulatory actions of amphetamine on the prefrontal cortex. Amphetamine enhanced the efficiency of prefrontal cortex function assayed with functional MRI during a working memory task in subjects with the high enzyme activity val/val genotype, who presumably have relatively less prefrontal synaptic dopamine, at all levels of task difficulty. In contrast, in subjects with the low activity met/met genotype who tend to have superior baseline prefrontal function, the drug had no effect on cortical efficiency at low-to-moderate working memory load and caused deterioration at high working memory load. These data illustrate an application of functional neuroimaging in pharmacogenomics and extend basic evidence of an inverted-"U" functional-response curve to increasing dopamine signaling in the prefrontal cortex. Further, individuals with the met/met catechol O-methyltransferase genotype appear to be at increased risk for an adverse response to amphetamine.
PMID: 12716966 PMCID: PMC156347 DOI: 10.1073/pnas.0931309100
 
d1nach said:
Here is matty et al. Abstract

Natl Acad Sci U S A. 2003 May 13;100(10):6186-91. Epub 2003 Apr 25.
Catechol O-methyltransferase val158-met genotype and individual variation in the brain response to amphetamine.

Mattay VS1, Goldberg TE, Fera F, Hariri AR, Tessitore A, Egan MF, Kolachana B, Callicott JH, Weinberger DR.
Author information
Abstract
Monamines subserve many critical roles in the brain, and monoaminergic drugs such as amphetamine have a long history in the treatment of neuropsychiatric disorders and also as a substance of abuse. The clinical effects of amphetamine are quite variable, from positive effects on mood and cognition in some individuals, to negative responses in others, perhaps related to individual variations in monaminergic function and monoamine system genes. We explored the effect of a functional polymorphism (val(158)-met) in the catechol O-methyltransferase gene, which has been shown to modulate prefrontal dopamine in animals and prefrontal cortical function in humans, on the modulatory actions of amphetamine on the prefrontal cortex. Amphetamine enhanced the efficiency of prefrontal cortex function assayed with functional MRI during a working memory task in subjects with the high enzyme activity val/val genotype, who presumably have relatively less prefrontal synaptic dopamine, at all levels of task difficulty. In contrast, in subjects with the low activity met/met genotype who tend to have superior baseline prefrontal function, the drug had no effect on cortical efficiency at low-to-moderate working memory load and caused deterioration at high working memory load. These data illustrate an application of functional neuroimaging in pharmacogenomics and extend basic evidence of an inverted-"U" functional-response curve to increasing dopamine signaling in the prefrontal cortex. Further, individuals with the met/met catechol O-methyltransferase genotype appear to be at increased risk for an adverse response to amphetamine.
PMID: 12716966 PMCID: PMC156347 DOI: 10.1073/pnas.0931309100
Click to expand...


Hmm, interesting. I read through what you posted, and then spent some time looking into it myself. I found this thread and thought the discussion in it was really interesting-- http://forum.mindandmuscle.net/37687-any-strategies-treating-adhd-based-comt-type
 
More than likely this is down to brain chemistry. As d1nach said "the brain's complex". Originally had this only been a problem with Vyvanse I would hypothesize that your liver (required to break lysine molecule from stimulant) is simply doing this inefficiently and to try another stimulant. However since you've tried many of them I can't offer any help.
 
Today I took half a Vyvanse (mixed one of my capsules in water) and then the other half later in the day, hoping for a more even spread and a lower dose to see if it'd help. Well, after taking the second half and feeling nothing, I decided to pour another capsule into water and drink that (figured I might as well experiment with the whole water route today). I fell asleep an hour after taking it...

The struggle is real guys.
 
Pouring in water is pointless it needs to be broken down tp be active thats the limiting step and water isnt reactive emough to cleave the amino group off
 
Does anyone have any suggestions I can bring up with my doc when I see him?

I find it so hard to believe I can't find any dosage of any stimulant that helps keep me focused for more than 1-2 hours :( But I've done a crazy amount of searching and can't seem to find any leads.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top