Evolution_mdma
Bluelighter
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Okay dont know if it is relivate to this room but i was having a convo with a guy who thinks alcohol isnt a drug okay i want to know peoples opinions
Thank you
Thank you
Alcohol who consideres it a drug
- Thread starter Evolution_mdma
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eddi spgeddi
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its a drug.
It's kind of strange really when you think about it, well it is for me. Yeah, alcohol is a drug, but it's something that's really a part of most people's lifes. It's something that was around when we were born, and grew up with, so it just seems so natural. We just seem to accept it in our lives today without thinking about it twice.
The drugs actual name is ethanol. if i can remember correctly the chemical elements are:
C2H6O (i might be wrong, just trying to remember back to highschool )
So, when it comes down to it, i still consider it a drug, but a legal, and well accepted one. I feel the same way about other drugs, like headache tablets, or something of the sort. When i have a headache, i just have a tablet, i dont even think about it as being a drug. I just reach for it and swallow it, and wait for it to stop the pain .
Well, that's how i feel about it, but everyone probably has different opinions. Other people might see it as a drug and dont touch it for that reason, but i guess it is all up to the individuals views.
The drugs actual name is ethanol. if i can remember correctly the chemical elements are:
C2H6O (i might be wrong, just trying to remember back to highschool
)So, when it comes down to it, i still consider it a drug, but a legal, and well accepted one. I feel the same way about other drugs, like headache tablets, or something of the sort. When i have a headache, i just have a tablet, i dont even think about it as being a drug. I just reach for it and swallow it, and wait for it to stop the pain
.Well, that's how i feel about it, but everyone probably has different opinions. Other people might see it as a drug and dont touch it for that reason, but i guess it is all up to the individuals views.
its a drug, like all drugs really do is push normal levels of your body higher, mdma pushs your seritone levels higher then normal, dmt is naturaly is already in your body, its just that the goverment cant tax them oh well more for us hey boys :D
Pleonastic
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When people won't believe that alcohol is a drug, I find it helps to talk about it using common "drug" terms...
For example, a standard dose of alcohol is 10 grams of pure. After dosing, the effects start coming on in roughly 10-15 minutes. You should reach the peak in just over half an hour, and then you'll platau for about 90 minutes. The comedown is fairly gradual, and there'll be residual effects for about 1-2 hours after.
Here are some graphs comparing the effects of alcohol with other drugs (click each for more info):
And lastly, here's the dictionary definition of a "drug":
For example, a standard dose of alcohol is 10 grams of pure. After dosing, the effects start coming on in roughly 10-15 minutes. You should reach the peak in just over half an hour, and then you'll platau for about 90 minutes. The comedown is fairly gradual, and there'll be residual effects for about 1-2 hours after.
Here are some graphs comparing the effects of alcohol with other drugs (click each for more info):
And lastly, here's the dictionary definition of a "drug":
Yep, in a literal and chemical sense, its a drug. Alcohol was actually prohibited and controlled back in the Prohibition Era in America (1950s - 1960s was it? History is rusty)
What is your orientation when asking this question? is it whether alcohol is a social or personal problem? whether it is addictive? Say for example, gambling COULD fall under both catergories as well, gambling has been known to be a social problem and addictive.
To me, the question really is not whether one substance is a drug or not rather when the usage of said substance/habit (be it alcohol, heroin or even sex!!) becomes a problem i.e. you become addicted to it and it takes over your life in varying degrees.
If you are doing or enjoying something in moderation, then i guess it doesn't really become a problem (depending on what you define as a problem). However, if you find that you are devoting an unsually large amount of time and resources in order to sustain this habit and is detrimental to both your physical and mental well-being, then it can be considered a problem!
And some responses here are right, one possible reason why alcohol is legal is that the govt. has found a way to tax it and somehow "normalised" it within most civilised societies. Marijuana looks like its gaining some form of social acceptance. Will MDxx follow suit? Maybe, maybe not.... Not until science can determine the short/long term effects and for the govt. to proclaim that it is *safe* and therefore tax it , and when that happens, the general population will slowly accept the usage of MDxx and it will become a social norm. If you ask me, the time taken for MDxx to be accepted will not be in this lifetime.
What is your orientation when asking this question? is it whether alcohol is a social or personal problem? whether it is addictive? Say for example, gambling COULD fall under both catergories as well, gambling has been known to be a social problem and addictive.
To me, the question really is not whether one substance is a drug or not rather when the usage of said substance/habit (be it alcohol, heroin or even sex!!) becomes a problem i.e. you become addicted to it and it takes over your life in varying degrees.
If you are doing or enjoying something in moderation, then i guess it doesn't really become a problem (depending on what you define as a problem). However, if you find that you are devoting an unsually large amount of time and resources in order to sustain this habit and is detrimental to both your physical and mental well-being, then it can be considered a problem!
And some responses here are right, one possible reason why alcohol is legal is that the govt. has found a way to tax it and somehow "normalised" it within most civilised societies. Marijuana looks like its gaining some form of social acceptance. Will MDxx follow suit? Maybe, maybe not.... Not until science can determine the short/long term effects and for the govt. to proclaim that it is *safe* and therefore tax it , and when that happens, the general population will slowly accept the usage of MDxx and it will become a social norm. If you ask me, the time taken for MDxx to be accepted will not be in this lifetime.
BigTrancer
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1. The structural formula for ethanol is CH3CH2OH, or more simply the chemical formula is C2H5OH.
2. Importing, exporting, transporting, selling, and manufacturing of intoxicating liquor (anything stronger than 0.5% alc/vol) in the USA was prohibited by the 18th Amendment to the Constitution at midnight on Jan 16th, 1920. Prohibition lasted for roughly thirteen years, in which time crime levels and per capita alcohol consumption levels actually had a net increase, and since then these levels have never approached their pre-Prohibition levels.
- McWilliams, Peter. "Prohibition: A Lesson in the Futility (and Danger) of Prohibiting."
BigTrancer
2. Importing, exporting, transporting, selling, and manufacturing of intoxicating liquor (anything stronger than 0.5% alc/vol) in the USA was prohibited by the 18th Amendment to the Constitution at midnight on Jan 16th, 1920. Prohibition lasted for roughly thirteen years, in which time crime levels and per capita alcohol consumption levels actually had a net increase, and since then these levels have never approached their pre-Prohibition levels.
- McWilliams, Peter. "Prohibition: A Lesson in the Futility (and Danger) of Prohibiting."
BigTrancer
Evolution_mdma
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thanks people
Thanks just wanted to clear that up its just when some non pill taking freinds say u shouldnt take drugs they mess u up so much
it gets on my nerves when they drink a shit load of piss and when they go dont take drugs i say u drink they claim it isnt a drug.
it really pisses me off the lack of knoledge people have about drugs but will claim they are the worst thing in world
thank you people
Thanks just wanted to clear that up its just when some non pill taking freinds say u shouldnt take drugs they mess u up so much
it gets on my nerves when they drink a shit load of piss and when they go dont take drugs i say u drink they claim it isnt a drug.
it really pisses me off the lack of knoledge people have about drugs but will claim they are the worst thing in world
thank you people
RustyBickie
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this is so true for me too. i used to get pissed and think all those "fuckin pill heads" were dickheads. well now i take E and i can see how much of a problem alcohol is compared with other drug use
BigTrancer
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phase_dancer
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Alcohol a drug!! It's a natural body chemical isn't it?
Alcohol by any definition is a drug, but in some respects it differs from other rec drugs, as the body has evolved a particular mechanism to process it.
Simple alcohols (ethanol in particular) are natural body chemicals, produced in varying but small amounts during digestion and through normal metabolism. Occasionally, the amount of alcohol produced during digestion may be enough to cause mild intoxication, so the metabolic system is equipped to deal with relatively large amounts.
Moles, enzymes, 2 step & NAD+
On a molar basis, alcohol is consumed in far greater amounts than any other drug. A few drinks often involves more than a mole or two (1mole = 46g) being consumed. A “large” session may involve a MDMA molar equivalent of more than 1000 tablets, as 1 mole of MDMA HCl is 229g.
What this means is that the molar weight of any consumed alcohol requires an equimolar availability of enzymes and co-factors to facilitate metabolism. With long sessions, food or nutrients / vitamins are essential for the body to be able to regenerate cofactor NAD+.
Oxidation of 2 moles of alcohol requires ~ 1.5kg of cofactor NAD+
Following rapid absorption through the stomach, alcohol enters the liver via hepatic blood flow. The liver is the organ where all initial and most subsequent metabolism occurs; this being a 2 step oxidative process producing acetic acid which is then harmlessly eliminated.
In the liver, alcohol is first converted to acetaldehyde, approximately 75% by alcohol dehydrogenase and ~25% by mixed function oxidases
The second step of liver metabolism involves oxidizing ~75% of the toxic acetaldehyde to acetic acid via aldehyde dehydrogenase . Around 25% is converted to acetic acid outside of the liver by cells employing aldehyde oxidase
Both processes of alcohol metabolism involving dehydrogenase enzymes also require cofactor nicotinamide adenine dinucleotide in its protonated, hydride receiving form (NAD+). The availability of regenerated NAD+ limits the rate of alcohol metabolism and over 200 enzymes use NAD+ or NADP+ for normal body processes.
Alcohol competes with other NAD+ requiring substrates, and it is thought this may be involved in long term liver toxicity. Acetaldehyde needs to be metabolised quickly as it also is toxic to liver cells. Another area of potential liver toxicity from long term use is through rises in levels of fatty acid –ethanol esters which may also contribute towards a fatty liver which can lead to cirrhosis (fatty liver will show up on ultrasound, sometimes before it shows up in blood tests for liver enzyme GGT).
Getting rid of dangerous intermediates
As aldehydes are so toxic, when alcohol is consumed regularly - even in moderate amounts - the body increases levels of available aldehyde dehydrogenase and aldehyde oxidase . The majority of the former is in the liver, but the oxidase occurs throughout the body including the brain. These increases have been associated with observed variations in metabolite ratios from neurotransmitter catabolism, particularly serotonin. Altering enzyme ratios also has potential to adversely influence metabolism rates of natural endogens and alter metabolic routes for other sympathomimetic amines.
Inhibited Aversion
Drugs which competitively bind to aldehyde dehydrogenase enzymes (e.g disulfiram) are sometimes used in aversion therapy during the treatment of alcoholism. On their own they have no noticeable physiological effect. However, when alcohol is consumed, these drugs prevent metabolism by this route and cause a build up of acetaldehyde in blood plasma. Plasma acetaldehyde produces an assortment of ghastly affects, including pain and nausea, but it is generally regarded as being harmless [?] It certainly discourages the user from wanting to drink while on the treatment.
Heart felt response to daily drinking
A good thing about daily, small amounts of alcohol (less than that required to cause CNS effects) is that the practice results in an elevation of plasma HDL, which in turn gives protection against coronary heart disease. Moderate drinking can give >50% protection in males. Pharmacology: Rang, Dale, Ritter 4th Ed.
Ethanol is the antidote for alcohol poisoning
Another interesting thing about ethanol is that it is the antidote for methanol poisoning!!
Ethanol has a higher affinity for binding with alcohol dehydrogenase than does methanol. Ethanol is administered following methanol poisoning to prevent the formation of highly toxic formaldehyde which reacts readily with lipoproteins and ultimately destroys cells (the eyes are particularly sensitive to this). Methanol is then eliminated unchanged in the urine.
Engine suseptibility / fuel processing / head wear
In relation to the actions of the drug ethanol, I have really only mentioned the liver and briefly at that. Actions of ethanol on GABA, AMPA & NMDA receptors, it’s affect on Ca++ gated ion channels, ACTH –ADH, specific organ and general neuropharmacology are subjects in themselves. Alcoholics often obtain much of their calorie intake from alcohol which leads to withdrawal complications and a cold turkey period similar to that seen with heroin withdrawal. Mechanisms involved with many of these processes are also thought to contribute to general, nonreversible physical and mental decay seen with chronic alcoholism. It would appear the engine wear warnings for fuel containing too much ethanol equally applies to your body in relation to alcohol intake.
Spiritual respect
In defense of such a spiritually empowered chemical; when used sensibly and in moderation, the “spirit” can be a valuable ally - a medicine. It can facilitate introspection, temporarily relieve grief and reduce shyness. It can even improve health. And it does all this with a high margin for dose error.
Ethanol occurs everywhere in nature. From decomposing garbage to cellular function. It is always going to be with us, being an integral starting material for countless bio-chemicals. In the organic chemist’s lab, using simple chemistry, ethanol can produce an endless number of cyclic and bioactive compounds. In the alchemist’s world, the alcohol source, its refinement and subsequent purity are of the utmost importance. Ethanol truly is a piece of divine chemical Lego.
It’s just a pity general maturity regarding its use doesn’t reflect the length of time man has been harnessing its properties. Like most things, I guess you can’t have it all without a string or two attached![:\](https://bluelight.org/xf/BL_Images/Orig_Emoji/wrygrin.gif "wry grin :\")
Alcohol by any definition is a drug, but in some respects it differs from other rec drugs, as the body has evolved a particular mechanism to process it.
Simple alcohols (ethanol in particular) are natural body chemicals, produced in varying but small amounts during digestion and through normal metabolism. Occasionally, the amount of alcohol produced during digestion may be enough to cause mild intoxication, so the metabolic system is equipped to deal with relatively large amounts.
Moles, enzymes, 2 step & NAD+
On a molar basis, alcohol is consumed in far greater amounts than any other drug. A few drinks often involves more than a mole or two (1mole = 46g) being consumed. A “large” session may involve a MDMA molar equivalent of more than 1000 tablets, as 1 mole of MDMA HCl is 229g.
What this means is that the molar weight of any consumed alcohol requires an equimolar availability of enzymes and co-factors to facilitate metabolism. With long sessions, food or nutrients / vitamins are essential for the body to be able to regenerate cofactor NAD+.
Oxidation of 2 moles of alcohol requires ~ 1.5kg of cofactor NAD+
Following rapid absorption through the stomach, alcohol enters the liver via hepatic blood flow. The liver is the organ where all initial and most subsequent metabolism occurs; this being a 2 step oxidative process producing acetic acid which is then harmlessly eliminated.
In the liver, alcohol is first converted to acetaldehyde, approximately 75% by alcohol dehydrogenase and ~25% by mixed function oxidases
The second step of liver metabolism involves oxidizing ~75% of the toxic acetaldehyde to acetic acid via aldehyde dehydrogenase . Around 25% is converted to acetic acid outside of the liver by cells employing aldehyde oxidase
Both processes of alcohol metabolism involving dehydrogenase enzymes also require cofactor nicotinamide adenine dinucleotide in its protonated, hydride receiving form (NAD+). The availability of regenerated NAD+ limits the rate of alcohol metabolism and over 200 enzymes use NAD+ or NADP+ for normal body processes.
Alcohol competes with other NAD+ requiring substrates, and it is thought this may be involved in long term liver toxicity. Acetaldehyde needs to be metabolised quickly as it also is toxic to liver cells. Another area of potential liver toxicity from long term use is through rises in levels of fatty acid –ethanol esters which may also contribute towards a fatty liver which can lead to cirrhosis (fatty liver will show up on ultrasound, sometimes before it shows up in blood tests for liver enzyme GGT).
Getting rid of dangerous intermediates
As aldehydes are so toxic, when alcohol is consumed regularly - even in moderate amounts - the body increases levels of available aldehyde dehydrogenase and aldehyde oxidase . The majority of the former is in the liver, but the oxidase occurs throughout the body including the brain. These increases have been associated with observed variations in metabolite ratios from neurotransmitter catabolism, particularly serotonin. Altering enzyme ratios also has potential to adversely influence metabolism rates of natural endogens and alter metabolic routes for other sympathomimetic amines.
Inhibited Aversion
Drugs which competitively bind to aldehyde dehydrogenase enzymes (e.g disulfiram) are sometimes used in aversion therapy during the treatment of alcoholism. On their own they have no noticeable physiological effect. However, when alcohol is consumed, these drugs prevent metabolism by this route and cause a build up of acetaldehyde in blood plasma. Plasma acetaldehyde produces an assortment of ghastly affects, including pain and nausea, but it is generally regarded as being harmless [?] It certainly discourages the user from wanting to drink while on the treatment.
Heart felt response to daily drinking
A good thing about daily, small amounts of alcohol (less than that required to cause CNS effects) is that the practice results in an elevation of plasma HDL, which in turn gives protection against coronary heart disease. Moderate drinking can give >50% protection in males. Pharmacology: Rang, Dale, Ritter 4th Ed.
Ethanol is the antidote for alcohol poisoning
Another interesting thing about ethanol is that it is the antidote for methanol poisoning!!
Ethanol has a higher affinity for binding with alcohol dehydrogenase than does methanol. Ethanol is administered following methanol poisoning to prevent the formation of highly toxic formaldehyde which reacts readily with lipoproteins and ultimately destroys cells (the eyes are particularly sensitive to this). Methanol is then eliminated unchanged in the urine.
Engine suseptibility / fuel processing / head wear
In relation to the actions of the drug ethanol, I have really only mentioned the liver and briefly at that. Actions of ethanol on GABA, AMPA & NMDA receptors, it’s affect on Ca++ gated ion channels, ACTH –ADH, specific organ and general neuropharmacology are subjects in themselves. Alcoholics often obtain much of their calorie intake from alcohol which leads to withdrawal complications and a cold turkey period similar to that seen with heroin withdrawal. Mechanisms involved with many of these processes are also thought to contribute to general, nonreversible physical and mental decay seen with chronic alcoholism. It would appear the engine wear warnings for fuel containing too much ethanol equally applies to your body in relation to alcohol intake.
Spiritual respect
In defense of such a spiritually empowered chemical; when used sensibly and in moderation, the “spirit” can be a valuable ally - a medicine. It can facilitate introspection, temporarily relieve grief and reduce shyness. It can even improve health. And it does all this with a high margin for dose error.
Ethanol occurs everywhere in nature. From decomposing garbage to cellular function. It is always going to be with us, being an integral starting material for countless bio-chemicals. In the organic chemist’s lab, using simple chemistry, ethanol can produce an endless number of cyclic and bioactive compounds. In the alchemist’s world, the alcohol source, its refinement and subsequent purity are of the utmost importance. Ethanol truly is a piece of divine chemical Lego.
It’s just a pity general maturity regarding its use doesn’t reflect the length of time man has been harnessing its properties. Like most things, I guess you can’t have it all without a string or two attached
goatyoghurt
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Yeah, its a drug 8(