Bupe Some reflections from a 4yr Poppy Seed Tea addict and Suboxone Induction

First off, wow I havent been on since like what, 2004! I actually used to be a moderation back in those glory days. It seems the forum has grown, and almost every topic is search engine relevant, along with megathreads, to which this post will most likely need to call home..Anyways.

Some background for experience and qualification purposes. In, 20001 I began using poppy seed tea/pharma opiates for about three years. 2005 I began shooting heroin. That same year I went on methadone for about eight months until I was forced into a horrible detox. Like I said, I basically stating this stuff to establish that I am not opiate naive.

On poppy seed tea. The shit deserves every bit as much respect that heroin gets. I relapsed after 2years clean on tabs, and quickly began chasing the high via poppy seed tea. Over the span of four years my habit became daily and every increasing, starting with a half pound, and up until a month ago 3.5 pounds if I wanted to get high, 2.5pounds were the bare minimum to keep me well. So, some observations on the subject:

1. The issue of potency of unwashed seeds should not be dismissed as bullshit/weak etc. In the last year, I attempted to get high on street opiates many times. I wouldnt feel any of the "codones" until I pushed in to the 80mg mark. At may peak addiction, it would require about 120-150mg oxycodone to catch a good nod for the day, AND THIS WAS SOMEONE GETTING HIGH ON POPPY SEEDS.

Once I bought a quarter gram of heroin that people were going to sleep standing on a half a point(granted they were nontolerant). I had to do the quarter gram to get me where I needed to be.

So poppy seed tea, if you find the right brand, is ridiculously, retardedly potent. By playing with pharms, crunching the equianalgesic dose numbers, I came to the conclusion that 1 pound of the most potent seeds you can find is roughly equivalent to taking 1 and a half roxy 30's, or roughly 100mg morphine sulfate give or take. THESE EQUIANALGESIC DOSES THAT I JUST WROTE COMPARE SUBJECTIVE PEAK EXPERIENCE OF PST TO THE PHARMS. Of course pound for pound, oxycodone is going to yield a more euphoric experience. I am relating the quantities required to offset withdrawals.

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PST is a completely different beast from pharms. After years of observation I've concluded that onset is rapid, but peak effcts occur somewhere at the 6-8 hour mark, and then begin diminishing over the next 16 hours. (Poppy seed tea taught me that one can be under the influence of opiates and in withdrawals at the same time, more on that later) In a way, after many years of daily use, I 'stabilized' at 3pounds and it was very similar to a long acting opiate in that regard. One dose between 9am-noon everyday kept the withdrawals away. I eventually learned how time my onset into withdrawal at the times I was expected to have sex, so I could appear normal..It became all about walking a tightrope of procuring, dosing, hiding, timing peaks and valleys to avoid suspicion...BUt it became very apparent, upon trying to jump off, that the withdrawals from PST were so violent, that there would be no way I could endure work and a relationship suffering from them. 36 hours dose free would have my shitting in a manor that felt like reverse dry heaving. and then there was just the plain dry heaving as well. An interesting atypical withdrawal symptom unique to PST is coughing so hard that it would trigger the gag reflex and result in vomiting. I think this is because its such a strong antitussive and I had been chain smoking for a couple years at that point IDK.

I was in hell. To pay for such a habit was infeasible. At that level, even the cheapest seeds (8bucks for a half pound) cost about 30bucks a day to use..Unfortunately the most plentiful ones were considerably more expensive. So I shoplifted the fuck out of them. I learned alot about stealing..Again with the tightrope, I learned that shoplifting the days dose the night before after midnight resulted in the least probability of being caught, as LP doesnt seem to work those hours. I did get caught once. I put up a fight and the guy submitted me MMA style. I firmly believe this is why I didnt go to jail that day. I never had any money. I was driving hundreds of miles a week trying to get what I needed. I was late to work. All this just to feel normal, not high..the highs stopped years ago. I lived with the fact that one day I would get arrested again and my life would all come crumbling down as a shit my guts out in a jailcell..Job, girlfriend, family..No one knew.


SO fuck it. I decided to get on a Suboxone program. It couldnt be any worse than the hell I was living in.. WHich brings me to

2. Suboxone induction from PST is an atypical experience that caught me off guard a bit.

I knew all about precipitated withdrawals. I also knoew that this PST I was doing lasted for ever..Unfortunately I had to work..My induction was set on a monday...I got high as normal up until that thursday. then I cut my dose in half, and started mild withdrawals on saturday..My last dose was one pound on saturday night at midnight to get some sleep..it worked..that put 36 hours between me and my induction. Sunday sucked, because I had to work..However, I was alarmed because my withdrawals werent onseting with the ferocity of heroin..It was like slowly wading into a WD pool and by the end of my shift I was only knee deep..I got about 4 hours of sleep. THe RLS and gagging started at about 7am, three fucking hours before my induction.. I drove to the office and sorta paced their lobby for an hour then they took me back..My eyes were saucers. Pit sweats drenched the shirt..My blood pressure was at a cool 185/95. Conversation was painful.

I writhed in the office for another 30 till he came in..and we talked and he brought me a strip. I took a quarter. NOthing happened..I took a half, in 15min my RLS had stopped..I finished the strip and within 30min I was feeling markedly better..I got my script and left..

Starting in the afternoon there was a war going on in my brain..It was as if I was in full withdrawals, but it no longer was agonizing..it was like something I could sit back and observe them..I was shitting liquid every twenty minutes. My eyes were fully dilated. Still freezing. At one point I wept. All this, but I still felt so much better than I had at 7am. I felt blank. I didnt feel good at all. But I didnt feel bad. It was like a mute button had been pushed. I came to the conclusion this is what it was like to be "fixed" but not high.

I bumped up to 12mg the next day and felt the same..16mg the third day, felt the same...Woke up the fourth day, dosed and it was as if the clouds parted and the angels sang...Suddenly I felt amazing. Vibrant. Full of life. Wanting to participate. Hungry. Horny. All the good stuff..Its been that way ever since..Which leads me to believe that with PST, the full agonist withdrawal your are going to feel for up to five days before the subs really click into place..I can see how others would give up on day three and go back to getting high..but icouldnt go back to hell and decided to stay in purgatory...the medicine finally worked, it just had a hardy battle with PST.

What you should gather is that Poppy Seed Tea is perhaps one of the most addicting opiate experiences out there.. I could eat roxys like candy. High dose subs BARELY covered the withdrawals until about a week into it. 60 bucks a day in heroin felt pretty similar to kick.

As for that, you're actually addicted to 100 chemicals or whater..well not really..now that the subs are working, its pretty apparent that I was addicted to high dose morphine...If anything the long half life is due to prodrugs found in the opium, along with enzyme competitors, or even inhibtors.

I now have my life back..I dropped the 16mg a day I've stabilized at 12mg, and I'm actually decently high off of it, now that my blood serum levels have accummulated due to this shits ridiculous half life..I may drop down to eight a day..If my insurance didnt cover it, I probably could only afford 30 a month, and still be broke as fuck. But also, I know 12mg is still a HIGH DOSE of an opiate with a huge half life..three years of this and I'll find myself with a whole new monkey to kick. So the lower I can go the better... I'm thinking first three months 8-12mgs..whatever I land on by the summers end, reduce by 1mg per month..once im down to 2mg daily, reduced by .5mg per month.


So there you have it...I typed all this, because I had all these questions and not many answers where to be found. Now that I know the answers, I'm throwing them out into the BL universe. I'll hang around to read the replies, but I'll probably post again in another ten years lol.

You could prob drop down to 2 mg a day now and not even feel it, 12 mgs isn't a bit high, it is a monstrous dose of sub, 2 mgs is even high I. Terms of jumping off. Coming off sub at 2 mgs will earn you about 40 days of hell and another month of getting back to normal, taper that sub down to literal micrograms, good luck, great read tho!

silverfucked said:

What you should gather is that Poppy Seed Tea is perhaps one of the most addicting opiate experiences out there.. I could eat roxys like candy. High dose subs BARELY covered the withdrawals until about a week into it. 60 bucks a day in heroin felt pretty similar to kick.

As for that, you're actually addicted to 100 chemicals or whater..well not really..now that the subs are working, its pretty apparent that I was addicted to high dose morphine...If anything the long half life is due to prodrugs found in the opium, along with enzyme competitors, or even inhibtors.

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This was a good read silverfucked. I never did the sub route but had plenty of experience with poppy pod/seed tea. I had grown up in a family of florists and those large golden pods were coming into the store for years for dried arrangements. By about 1993, just before Jim Hogshire blew the door off of the secret with his flashy book I had read in a journal about a poppy tea remedy for some ailments. So I got in early. By 1997 was very addicted and had my first kick in 2000. (a few more kicks had to be had until 2009, I never learn). But the strength of poppy tea or seed tea is underrated. It is probably one of the strongest opiates for me. The few times I quit cold turkey I was sick for a month. Another friend had kicked dope the same time as me and he was up and about 9 days after the kick. Meanwhile I was still very sick at 9 days from poppy tea withdrawal. As far as cost pods were costing 19 cents a piece for our store and as long as it came in I had no bad karma and was a model citizen. With H I had to resort to resort to stealing and eventually did a bid. That just showed me it is the availability that makes a person crack. If someone were to get their heroin everyday delivered crime would go way down.

I was just relating a story to a friend how poppy tea totally took away H withdrawal and even produced a nod. From totally sick and shaking to well and sleepy. However, H could not totally take away poppy tea withdrawal, something was still missing. All those alkaloids in poppy I am not surprised. This was top notch NYC dope too, so the dope was as good as it gets.

Crazy how mother nature can certainly make some strong medicine.

Awesome read man, thanks for posting. Though I suspect this may be closed. As we hear so often, "this isn't OD material, try the blog." Haha. Though sekio has already responded to later posts so maybe he is leaving it up out of respect for your former mod status.

I'm sure there is a massive variation depending on brand/source as well as the smaller variations between harvests inherent to plants like this, but does anyone know an average amount of morphine and codeine resulting from a tea extraction? And has the stuff been profiled? Given how weak pharmaceutical morphine and codeine are when taken orally I have to wonder what causes the by-all-accounts horrible withdrawal from pods. What role does the thebaine play? Does something about the tea method result in a kind of extended release of the active alkaloids?

If it needs to be moved to the addiction sticky, that'd be fine..like I said, the board is super foreign now lol

I honestly think its a prodrug situation..

As I said from comparable pharma, a pound of seeds yielded the high of 100mg msir.

2mg bupe is the goal but until now, its taken eight plus to get me right..not high..well kinda high now that I prob have high serum levels..I think I'm gonna skip tommorrow, then start with 8 the following day. I know I went for eight last Fri and woke up sick the next day..again, poppy seed tea. And I know the difference between sick and not high..shit is not to be fucked with.

One other note. My ability to get it up and get off and my GI tract are back to full functioning even at this dose..idk if that's because of the partial agonist effect, or because PST was that effective at shutting that stuff down..yes I'm a terrified of the eventual sub detox. But at the moment, the feeling of having a life again has made it all worth it.

Great writing man! I too was addicted to poppy seed tea back in early 2000's. I graduated to pod tea in 2005 and was addicted for the next seven years. I'm on suboxone now, currently slowly tapering off 8mg. I remember my induction. I was in withdrawal for a full two days, and before that I was using kratom + MDPV (for a few days). For me, I felt fine after 20 min of taking a 2mg sub, then I felt better and better.

It's odd because before, when I was deep in my addiction, I had a couple suboxone on hand for emergencies. I never wanted to use them cause of pw. However, one time, on vacation, I ran outta tea early (that shit always happened on vacation, no matter how I planned it). My gf was in the dark, so I faked being sick. I took the sub then and it felt odd- like an ssri buzzy feeling. Not good. So I must not have been far enough into wd at that point.

Anyhow, good luck silverfucked. You now have a long road of bupe addiction ahead of you. I'd get down to 8mg, you shouldn't need 12. I'm at 6mg, down from 8. Been in the program for 3 years.

Man, 12 is suiting me right.mi got one more day of work then an off day to spend with the gf..if I drop to 8 tommorrow, and 8 the next day, will I start getting symptoms that evening.. Weird thing about opiate addiction..if you're too high, you can't get it up, if your too sick, the idea of sex sounds awful..after Thurs, its gonna be eight everyday, and by my next off day, I'll be adjusted..

Once you are stabilized, is the difference in two mg, the difference between well and sick? Ideally I wanna be tapered off by June, 2016..

Conversely, if life without sub's means a life of wishing I was high on opiates, and fighting that urge to get high, maybe its better just to b on sub's forever.. Like zoloft

It sucks..i posted in social(prob wrong forum) about the old board and old moderators(2003ish)..I pretty much got flamed out of the forum, even got accussed of being a greenliughter(if that exists still)....but I did get the answer I was looking for.. theyre all dead(they got on the titanic and didnt jump ship before it sunk)(Phreex, fairnymph, etc.)..it sucks because they remind me of myself ten years ago, and it's almost if I know what is waiting for them, and sall I can do is watch them laugh at me.

If thats the case, maybe it makes sense to stay on subs forever..at least at this point, i dont wanna shoot dope..if I come off, that may change...sorry for being bleak. I think a mg, to a half mg a month is totally reasonable without experience too much of a transition issue.

man the early 2000s...i remember I tried PST not cuz I read about it(i actually read it didnt work)..I just tried it and it it worked and it opened up this whole ordeal for everyone. The first time I got high on PST was like 2000. And I used my logic about where poppy seeds came from and I just made a simple extraction to see if it worked..downhill ever since.

I enjoyed reading this I've been addicted to PST longer than you but have never gotten into anything harder. The part about timing withdrawal with sex made me laugh I do this too. At one point I was up 6 pounds daily.

I've manage to stay on 1/2 a pound for over a year and stick to it because I donate plasma and have a job. Going through withdrawal every week sucks. I keep tolerance away by dosing with magnesium and DXM. Don't have the money to go over 1/2 a pound that shit is expensive now. I remember when it was .99 a pound now it's almost 5 dollars. I don't have the balls to steal, I would rather go through withdrawal than the shame.

Good luck I don't know if switching to bupe is any better from what I have read about it but at least you are under a doctors supervision.

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Have you thought about getting on bupe? You wouldn't have to worry about withdrawal. It's a more stable lifestyle. It sucks being addicted to poppy tea..

ArtVandalay said:

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Have you thought about getting on bupe? You wouldn't have to worry about withdrawal. It's a more stable lifestyle. It sucks being addicted to poppy tea..

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If you're talking to me... bupe seems a bit extreme for only being on PST I don't think I could go to a doctor about this. I've heard getting off bupe is really hard. I've gotten off PST hundreds of times. heh

But here you are still doing it I realized that I couldn't quit, and this is when I wanted to with everything I had..it was like bupe or suicide..that kind of desperation..

That being said, if you ever find yourself in the same spot, suboxone has been nothing short of a miracle..yes, a bupe detox will eventually be a shit ordeal..but I have my life back..people can tell a difference and they don't know about the addiction or the bupe..they keep telling me how awesome I've been lately.

Also as an ancillary note..I've been kinda Jeeping track of a major vendors poppy seeds, and I've noticed I'm not the only one in this medium sized town..for instance, I went to the store Mon night and noticed they had a full stock..Tuesday night, it was completely gone..I always had my suspicions..

Oh and when I got caught that one time, the loss prev asked me if I was "John".. I said no, but that clued me in to a second poppy seed bandit they had their eyes on..

The seeds will end up being mandatoraly washed in the coming decade..just watch.

ArtVandalay said:

It's odd because before, when I was deep in my addiction, I had a couple suboxone on hand for emergencies. I never wanted to use them cause of pw. However, one time, on vacation, I ran outta tea early (that shit always happened on vacation, no matter how I planned it). My gf was in the dark

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I don't think people realize how bad it can get! I was making it in the trunk of my car at work..I would make it in the shower on vacation, at the gfs. My car and apt had seeds everywhere, no matter how much I cleaned..

You got on in 2000? How'd you find out?? Mine was a simple guess that turned out to work a little too well. In those days, you'd be laughed off for talking about it..I remember I got made fun of soon hard in a halfway house..till they caught me with heroin too lol

silverfucked said:

But here you are still doing it I realized that I couldn't quit, and this is when I wanted to with everything I had..it was like bupe or suicide..that kind of desperation..

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I know I'm going to come off sounding like an in denial junky to you but I really can stop when I need to and I do. Money is more important to me than getting high. Whatever the addiction gene is I know I don't have it, if I go a week without using anything I lose all interest in whatever drug physically. Psychologically on the other hand... I just use out of mental/anxiety problems.

That being said, if you ever find yourself in the same spot, suboxone has been nothing short of a miracle..yes, a bupe detox will eventually be a shit ordeal..but I have my life back..people can tell a difference and they don't know about the addiction or the bupe..they keep telling me how awesome I've been lately.

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I don't even believe a doctor would give it to me unless I lied and said I was using something harder. Since I don't use daily I'm still very much in the honeymoon period and I've managed to keep this going on now for over a year. It is annoying feeling awesome an productive for half the week and the other half feeling like a zombie but thems the breaks.

Also as an ancillary note..I've been kinda Jeeping track of a major vendors poppy seeds, and I've noticed I'm not the only one in this medium sized town..for instance, I went to the store Mon night and noticed they had a full stock..Tuesday night, it was completely gone..I always had my suspicions..

Oh and when I got caught that one time, the loss prev asked me if I was "John".. I said no, but that clued me in to a second poppy seed bandit they had their eyes on..

The seeds will end up being mandatoraly washed in the coming decade..just watch.

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There was a two years period where you couldn't get any good seeds so I wouldn't be surprised. For now the supply is plentiful but I've noticed it goes quick so there are others out there who can't control themselves. I'm willing to stop when the supply is gone I've done it before.

Opiates are the only thing that make me a normal human because of my social anxiety but I can't take the step of going of bupe I'm only using weekly.

Damn dude good luck. If I was had used heroin like you I would consider it. I like reading about others PST use nice knowing I'm not the only one.

noone1 said:

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Damn dude good luck. If I was had used heroin like you I would consider it. I like reading about others PST use nice knowing I'm not the only one.

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Right...just saying the original point of this post is that PST and heroin are the same addiction..However, if you are taking three four day breaks, then suboxone would not be right route, as your phsyical dependence is minimal.

I always thought it was just me, but no matter what, every single time i get back o sub, from my H habit, even if i wait a full 24 hours from last dose of H, I get this same feeling.. not quite as severe as full cold turkey withdrawal, but from the first dose of sub i feel pretty shity.. cant sleep for the first three nights.. not a second.. no energy.. shits.. no appetite.. then like clockwork.. on the 4th morning, ill dose my sub again, and feel AMAZING.. like better than if i dosed my DOC.. i will then get some much needed food and sleep.. and from then on its all cherry. except the boredom starts eventually leading me to rleapse and doing it all again... ahh the vicous cycle

Yeah, Im only a month in and I'm already getting that..I feel great, but I'm not high lol..My drinking is pretty bad, and I keep thinking about coke and other drugs..So obviously bupe only works on the physical side of things, but I am still very much addicted.. I've decided the difference between 4,8,12,16mg if pretty negligible..maybe jumping from 4-16..Im still doing 12mg a day, if only because I fantasize about heroin and fentanyl at lower doses, and I know that I could bust thru those saturation levels.