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Opioids Kratom Mega Thread V.4

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GrumpyCat said:
Thanks jcdenton - was that a proper cooks measured teaspoon?

I'm also wondering if the low dose of 25mg amitriptyline I am taking is somehow inhibiting kratom effects.......
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Yep, they were level teaspoons.

I actually have been taking 10mg of amitriptyline for depression daily for a few months now. A low dose, but I haven't noticed any inhibition of effects from kratom. In fact, I was just reading a thread on here not too long ago where people were claiming it potentiates the analgesic effects of opioids. Take care :)
 
Hammilton said:
Anyone can handle some headaches, the flu and a little insomnia.
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I just want to chime in because I found this to be a hard understatement. In my last WD from even very low doses of Bupe (~0,5/day) I experienced hell on earth with extreme puking, not being able to eat for about a week and lots of other symptoms that were all above everything you mentioned. I'd rather take the craving and psychological aspect. At least you can distract yourself from that by engaging in better activities like sports and social interactions.
Not so much during the acute WD-phase where laying in the bed in a puddle of sweat is about the only thing you are able to do.

While I agree that the psychological aspect and the PAWS are also hard to deal with, I don't think you can generalize it.
 
Hammilton said:
Mycophile- I wasn't referring to using kratom itself, but rather the extracts we were discussing. I'd recommend trying both UEI / Full Spectrum Tincture (I haven't mentioned this one before, because, coming from the same people who make UEI and the oxindole enhanced extract, it is identical to UEI, just as a tincture) at least a few times, while they're still available. Eventually they're gonna be talked about the way people talk about phenmetrazine, quaaludes and ketobemidone- something incredible that'll just one day disappear. It isn't something that will appear on the black market- its general lack of potency and the fact that you've gotta eat a gross tasting powder has prevented these extracts from achieving more widespread popularity- thank God- or it'd have disappeared already.

Can a person use kratom recreationally a couple days a week without ultimately developing an addiction? I would think so, but it is playing roulette, especially if you were already addicted to benzos. Were you really addicted to them, though, or were you just physically dependent on them? They're not at all the same thing. Were you using more than prescribed? Buying them illegally? Would you go through a month's worth in a few days? A relative became addicted to diazepam and would go through his 90 x 10mg / month supply in about a week and buy more online. Was fine until he chewed through his backup stash and then his order got seized.

You may well be able to maintain using kratom like that, it is pretty mild. I've been addicted to opiates for a very long time now, and yet I have no problem controlling my use of prescribed amphetamine, just take my prescribed dose, exactly as prescribed, every day. I never found stimulants enjoyable, just very functional.

I suspect that if you use kratom recreationally on a regular basis like you have been, you'll eventually develop a habit, and always want to use it in certain circumstances. For me, taking opiates and laying down, kind of meditating while enjoying the 'mind movies' they produce, was an association that I find very hard to break- it's hard to sleep without first taking an opioid. I think it'd have been easier to break if I had associated it with another activity, one I can more easily stop. I always hold my suboxone under my tongue for an hour, and I've come to associate watching different television programs while taking it- I mean, I actually have fond memories of holding a sub under my tongue and watching Dr. Who and GoT and pretty much every other series on HBO and Showtime, lol.

I wish you luck, as ultimately you'll do whatever you want to do, but personally, knowing what I know now, I would experience many different things and then just stop experimenting. I wish I had stopped using opioids after trying pods a few dozen times or after the first couple times using dope. Instead I got a prescription and made it a daily thing.
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Thanks man.

Yeah, I can understand what you are saying and I'm going to be extremely careful.

No, I was only physically dependent on benzos as prescribed to me, not really "addicted" in the sense that they didn't give me any kind of high and I never bought them illegally, but perhaps I was addicted in the sense that I often took a little more than prescribed for anxiety, which is unfortunately what led to me eventually being cut off...something I think is unfair, but I understand why it happened, and I became somewhat reliant on them as a crutch, but I didn't have "cravings" for them because they produced no high, just helped medically.

I know that this is roulette, but I just think that with plain leaf at least the stakes aren't extremely high, since it's not all that strong a substance.

However, I'm kind of second guessing the extracts now for sure though I'd like a chance to try them eventually if they might go off the market.

I think I could attempt to use your approach with the extracts...just try them once then never again and only plain leaf after that which seems like a good half way.

But thanks for your advice man because these kinds of conversations are good to keep me grounded and on my best behavior with Kratom so I don't forget that it's an addictive substance.

I think being reminded of that will help keep me in check cause the last thing I want is an addiction.

Peace
 
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Was thinking of giving up on the kratom after 2 strains I tried (Bali kratom and Red vein borneo) didn't seem to do much, then I tried the last one I got sent, Red Liang Teh Merah and it worked! :) so will get some more of that and get some others as well.

This kratom seems to be very subjective thing, and also I seem to have to take relatively large doses (praps that's because of just WD'ing from DHC)

Does anyone get shakey/trembly on kratom?

Edit PS - what is kratom red leaf maximum dosage people here take for opiate WD?

Or perhaps I should mix strains - any suggestions/tips would be appreciated, thanks

Edit PPS! - just seen threads re kratom addiction and WD - stupidly didn't realise that using kratom for dhc WD could give me another addiction, can't win!

So, any advice on how to avoid this? eg - how long I should use kratom for and do I taper or what?
What, when, how - Confused and muddle headed!
 
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Be careful if your goal is to come off of DHC, kratom is fully cross-tolerant and you won't be making much if any progress unless you taper the kratom. As far as tremors go this is a pretty common side-effect from high doses of kratom, so your not alone there. It's actually a listed side-effect of mitragynine. Your best bet as far as kicking would be to get a scale if you don't already have one, then set yourself an amount you will use per day and work on getting that dose down.

Personally, I just go all day without dosing and when night time comes I will dose a few grams to get sleep, then continue this regimine. This is a pretty agressive way to quit though. Anyways, just hold out as long as you can between doses, and when you do dose only use what you need... don't chase a high or your never gonna make progress.
 
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Its been 3 weeks guys, still recovering form kratom. Sent mw to the dr. Im jaundice and still gave nausea. 3 weeks of this. Ohh... with a nasty itch that won't stop. Im soo exhausted. Never again. Let this be a warning to new people. I qas very sensative. Got dark brown urine on the 5th day. Then it was downhill. Luckily all blood work shows no liver damage. But super hifh bilirubin at 12.5. The itch at night keeps me up. Only get about 1 to 2 of sleep for the last 3 weeks. And always wake up drenched in sweat. From reading. .. some people recovered in 2 months. Ill take the 3 days of hell from quiting opiates next time. Gladly take those 3 days.
 
Kratom doesn't interfere with any antibiotics does it?

I might need to take an antifungal anti-biotic because of an infection and I don't want to tell my doctor I take Kratom and I'll probably want to take Kratom while on it but I won't if it interferes.

I've heard people say Kratom is an immunostimulant but what does this really mean?

That it speeds up your immune system?

Wouldn't that be a good thing?

Or is it possible that it could be the reason this rash I have showed up in the first place?

I ask because I get recurring impetigo (a fairly benign but still annoying and contagious staph infection) whenever my immune system is compromised and I'm wondering if the Kratom made it come out again since I basically harbor this type of staph at all times?

Like, could the Kratom have made my body over react and made the impetigo pop out?

It showed up one night after drinking though and I'm thinking that's more likely to have caused it to pop out since drinking is probably worse for your immune system than Kratom is and there have been plenty of times I've woken up with colds after drinking so I'm guessing it's more like that kind of thing.
 
I have been on kratom and antibiotics before (azithromycin and then amoxicillin) and I can tell you that it didn't seem like either hurt the action of the other in any way. The kratom still worked fine but it turned out that I probably did not need the antibiotics (I'm sort of upset about that actually, antibiotics are entirely overused) so I can't tell you for sure whether the kratom may affect the action of the antibiotics.

As far as the immunosuppressant stuff goes I really don't know so I'll defer to someone who may know better than I.
 
Crazyfrog said:
Its been 3 weeks guys, still recovering form kratom. Sent mw to the dr. Im jaundice and still gave nausea. 3 weeks of this. Ohh... with a nasty itch that won't stop. Im soo exhausted. Never again. Let this be a warning to new people. I qas very sensative. Got dark brown urine on the 5th day. Then it was downhill. Luckily all blood work shows no liver damage. But super hifh bilirubin at 12.5. The itch at night keeps me up. Only get about 1 to 2 of sleep for the last 3 weeks. And always wake up drenched in sweat. From reading. .. some people recovered in 2 months. Ill take the 3 days of hell from quiting opiates next time. Gladly take those 3 days.
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Hope you feel better soon. I'm sure it will continue to get better just hang in there.
 
Though I'm sure I'm not the first person to experience this I thought I'd share how much enjoyment I've been getting from the "insomnia" side effect that Green Vein (and White too) Kratom causes me in combination with benadryl/diphenhydramine and melatonin.

It's weird but I'm sure with all the consciousness exploration people here do that there must be others on here who also enjoy exploring half sleep states and the like.

For me, if I take any green or white vein Kratom less than like 8 hours before bed I'll have EXTREME trouble sleeping if I can sleep at all.

However, if you like the way diphenhydramine/benadryl feels, especially if you have a low tolerance to it like me, then you'll find that you can get a fringe benefit out of the insomnia Kratom can cause you.

I mean, afterall, if you can't sleep you may as well get SOME kind of a high out of it right??

So what I'll do is if I take Kratom too close to bedtime and know I can't sleep I'll take some extra benadryl, like 2 1/2--3 pills when 2 is the normal dosage and also 3 and 3/4s milligrams of liquid melatonin to try to get to sleep (I always take this dosage of melatonin anyways and these days I often take benadryl).


So of course what happens is that the Kratom stops me from fully falling asleep but the benadryl/melatonin combo partially knocks me out so I just kind of exist in that half-sleep state all night long for hours on end and after experiencing it a few times I've gotten to REALLY enjoy it, so much so that if I know I have nothing to do the next day and can sleep late I'll intentionally take my Kratom later in the day so that I can't sleep at night and can enjoy this unusual state that the drug combo puts me in.

If I DON'T take benadryl and/or melatonin at night after taking Kratom I will be WIDE awake all night long, like even more than coffee but not speedy either like an amphetamine, just COMPLETELY awake as if I'd just woken up from 10 hours of sleep, but the sleep meds put me half way out.

So I basically nod all night long, never really being sure at any moment whether or not I was asleep or awake, looking at the clock every now and then and not being sure if I've been sleeping or waking.

I'm sure SOME of the time I'm asleep but it's that EXTREMELY light kind of sleep.

Anyways, it's just a cool feeling, especially if I put on some light music in the background and have my room nice and dark but maybe with a couple things flashing in the background like a screen saver or black light to provide ambiance and while I haven't tried it with weed I'm sure that a few hits of good bud would go GREAT with it.

Basically, it is a way of experiencing a mild diphenydramine high for the full 4-6 hours if usually it puts you to sleep and like me you aren't interested in trying to take 10-20 times the dose to trip.

I don't know, I like dreamy half-sleep type states so I've been digging it so I thought I'd share for when you can't fall asleep off Kratom but have time to sleep in the next day and would rather not be angry tossing and turning in bed all night, at least you can get something out of it.
 
Mycophile said:
Though I'm sure I'm not the first person to experience this I thought I'd share how much enjoyment I've been getting from the "insomnia" side effect that Green Vein (and White too) Kratom causes me in combination with benadryl/diphenhydramine and melatonin.

It's weird but I'm sure with all the consciousness exploration people here do that there must be others on here who also enjoy exploring half sleep states and the like.

For me, if I take any green or white vein Kratom less than like 8 hours before bed I'll have EXTREME trouble sleeping if I can sleep at all.

However, if you like the way diphenhydramine/benadryl feels, especially if you have a low tolerance to it like me, then you'll find that you can get a fringe benefit out of the insomnia Kratom can cause you.

I mean, afterall, if you can't sleep you may as well get SOME kind of a high out of it right??

So what I'll do is if I take Kratom too close to bedtime and know I can't sleep I'll take some extra benadryl, like 2 1/2--3 pills when 2 is the normal dosage and also 3 and 3/4s milligrams of liquid melatonin to try to get to sleep (I always take this dosage of melatonin anyways and these days I often take benadryl).


So of course what happens is that the Kratom stops me from fully falling asleep but the benadryl/melatonin combo partially knocks me out so I just kind of exist in that half-sleep state all night long for hours on end and after experiencing it a few times I've gotten to REALLY enjoy it, so much so that if I know I have nothing to do the next day and can sleep late I'll intentionally take my Kratom later in the day so that I can't sleep at night and can enjoy this unusual state that the drug combo puts me in.

If I DON'T take benadryl and/or melatonin at night after taking Kratom I will be WIDE awake all night long, like even more than coffee but not speedy either like an amphetamine, just COMPLETELY awake as if I'd just woken up from 10 hours of sleep, but the sleep meds put me half way out.

So I basically nod all night long, never really being sure at any moment whether or not I was asleep or awake, looking at the clock every now and then and not being sure if I've been sleeping or waking.

I'm sure SOME of the time I'm asleep but it's that EXTREMELY light kind of sleep.

Anyways, it's just a cool feeling, especially if I put on some light music in the background and have my room nice and dark but maybe with a couple things flashing in the background like a screen saver or black light to provide ambiance and while I haven't tried it with weed I'm sure that a few hits of good bud would go GREAT with it.

Basically, it is a way of experiencing a mild diphenydramine high for the full 4-6 hours if usually it puts you to sleep and like me you aren't interested in trying to take 10-20 times the dose to trip.

I don't know, I like dreamy half-sleep type states so I've been digging it so I thought I'd share for when you can't fall asleep off Kratom but have time to sleep in the next day and would rather not be angry tossing and turning in bed all night, at least you can get something out of it.
Click to expand...

your takeing the wrong kratom for the evening.best to do sedating reds not.green and whites.8)
 
Mycophile said:
Though I'm sure I'm not the first person to experience this I thought I'd share how much enjoyment I've been getting from the "insomnia" side effect that Green Vein (and White too) Kratom causes me in combination with benadryl/diphenhydramine and melatonin.

It's weird but I'm sure with all the consciousness exploration people here do that there must be others on here who also enjoy exploring half sleep states and the like.

For me, if I take any green or white vein Kratom less than like 8 hours before bed I'll have EXTREME trouble sleeping if I can sleep at all.

However, if you like the way diphenhydramine/benadryl feels, especially if you have a low tolerance to it like me, then you'll find that you can get a fringe benefit out of the insomnia Kratom can cause you.

I mean, afterall, if you can't sleep you may as well get SOME kind of a high out of it right??

So what I'll do is if I take Kratom too close to bedtime and know I can't sleep I'll take some extra benadryl, like 2 1/2--3 pills when 2 is the normal dosage and also 3 and 3/4s milligrams of liquid melatonin to try to get to sleep (I always take this dosage of melatonin anyways and these days I often take benadryl).


So of course what happens is that the Kratom stops me from fully falling asleep but the benadryl/melatonin combo partially knocks me out so I just kind of exist in that half-sleep state all night long for hours on end and after experiencing it a few times I've gotten to REALLY enjoy it, so much so that if I know I have nothing to do the next day and can sleep late I'll intentionally take my Kratom later in the day so that I can't sleep at night and can enjoy this unusual state that the drug combo puts me in.

If I DON'T take benadryl and/or melatonin at night after taking Kratom I will be WIDE awake all night long, like even more than coffee but not speedy either like an amphetamine, just COMPLETELY awake as if I'd just woken up from 10 hours of sleep, but the sleep meds put me half way out.

So I basically nod all night long, never really being sure at any moment whether or not I was asleep or awake, looking at the clock every now and then and not being sure if I've been sleeping or waking.

I'm sure SOME of the time I'm asleep but it's that EXTREMELY light kind of sleep.

Anyways, it's just a cool feeling, especially if I put on some light music in the background and have my room nice and dark but maybe with a couple things flashing in the background like a screen saver or black light to provide ambiance and while I haven't tried it with weed I'm sure that a few hits of good bud would go GREAT with it.

Basically, it is a way of experiencing a mild diphenydramine high for the full 4-6 hours if usually it puts you to sleep and like me you aren't interested in trying to take 10-20 times the dose to trip.

I don't know, I like dreamy half-sleep type states so I've been digging it so I thought I'd share for when you can't fall asleep off Kratom but have time to sleep in the next day and would rather not be angry tossing and turning in bed all night, at least you can get something out of it.
Click to expand...

Interesting post. Personally, I have never had trouble falling asleep on kratom. Just this morning I woke up at 7am like I always do because I'm used to going to work and wanted to fall back asleep so I took 6 grams and within an hour melted into a deep sleep that lasted until about an hour ago. I would say falling asleep on kratom is one of the greatest feelings kratom produces in me. I have definitely heard of other people having trouble sleeping on kratom, but I find it absolutely helps me fall asleep if that is what I want to do.

P.s. I use Bali kratom but I actually don't know what color vein it has. Not sure if the strain could actually determine whether it would be a sleep aid or a sleep deterrent though. I think everyone just has their own reaction to kratom, but I could be wrong.
 
thc_enigma said:
your takeing the wrong kratom for the evening.best to do sedating reds not.green and whites.8)
Click to expand...

I know, but I really like Green strains and if I take them like any sooner before bed then like 7 hours I can't sleep, but I still prefer the effects of Green Veins to Red.

Also, I don't always have enough cash to buy mulitiple veins so sometimes I just have to choose one and Green is my favorite.
 
jcdenton said:
Interesting post. Personally, I have never had trouble falling asleep on kratom. Just this morning I woke up at 7am like I always do because I'm used to going to work and wanted to fall back asleep so I took 6 grams and within an hour melted into a deep sleep that lasted until about an hour ago. I would say falling asleep on kratom is one of the greatest feelings kratom produces in me. I have definitely heard of other people having trouble sleeping on kratom, but I find it absolutely helps me fall asleep if that is what I want to do.

P.s. I use Bali kratom but I actually don't know what color vein it has. Not sure if the strain could actually determine whether it would be a sleep aid or a sleep deterrent though. I think everyone just has their own reaction to kratom, but I could be wrong.
Click to expand...

I think Bali is usually a red vein.

Personally I don't like Bali as much as Green Malay but I like to mix the two.

And yes, I absolutely have an easier time sleeping on Bali than Green Malay.
 
Mycophile said:
Though I'm sure I'm not the first person to experience this I thought I'd share how much enjoyment I've been getting from the "insomnia" side effect that Green Vein (and White too) Kratom causes me in combination with benadryl/diphenhydramine and melatonin.

It's weird but I'm sure with all the consciousness exploration people here do that there must be others on here who also enjoy exploring half sleep states and the like.

For me, if I take any green or white vein Kratom less than like 8 hours before bed I'll have EXTREME trouble sleeping if I can sleep at all.

However, if you like the way diphenhydramine/benadryl feels, especially if you have a low tolerance to it like me, then you'll find that you can get a fringe benefit out of the insomnia Kratom can cause you.

I mean, afterall, if you can't sleep you may as well get SOME kind of a high out of it right??

So what I'll do is if I take Kratom too close to bedtime and know I can't sleep I'll take some extra benadryl, like 2 1/2--3 pills when 2 is the normal dosage and also 3 and 3/4s milligrams of liquid melatonin to try to get to sleep (I always take this dosage of melatonin anyways and these days I often take benadryl).


So of course what happens is that the Kratom stops me from fully falling asleep but the benadryl/melatonin combo partially knocks me out so I just kind of exist in that half-sleep state all night long for hours on end and after experiencing it a few times I've gotten to REALLY enjoy it, so much so that if I know I have nothing to do the next day and can sleep late I'll intentionally take my Kratom later in the day so that I can't sleep at night and can enjoy this unusual state that the drug combo puts me in.

If I DON'T take benadryl and/or melatonin at night after taking Kratom I will be WIDE awake all night long, like even more than coffee but not speedy either like an amphetamine, just COMPLETELY awake as if I'd just woken up from 10 hours of sleep, but the sleep meds put me half way out.

So I basically nod all night long, never really being sure at any moment whether or not I was asleep or awake, looking at the clock every now and then and not being sure if I've been sleeping or waking.

I'm sure SOME of the time I'm asleep but it's that EXTREMELY light kind of sleep.

Anyways, it's just a cool feeling, especially if I put on some light music in the background and have my room nice and dark but maybe with a couple things flashing in the background like a screen saver or black light to provide ambiance and while I haven't tried it with weed I'm sure that a few hits of good bud would go GREAT with it.

Basically, it is a way of experiencing a mild diphenydramine high for the full 4-6 hours if usually it puts you to sleep and like me you aren't interested in trying to take 10-20 times the dose to trip.

I don't know, I like dreamy half-sleep type states so I've been digging it so I thought I'd share for when you can't fall asleep off Kratom but have time to sleep in the next day and would rather not be angry tossing and turning in bed all night, at least you can get something out of it.
Click to expand...

This is very interesting read man , and I can honestly say I get this same exact thing . I take anywhere from 10-18 grams all in one go every night that is until I found out about Tianeptine, but thats a different story . It does not matter to me I take red or green strain I always end up staying up until about 5-6 in the morning thats even with 2-3 beers with it to . I know everyone has there preferences , but in my opinion the green malay is by far the most euphoric strain . I take 18 grams , and just when I can just about feel it I go eat a light meal about 1 sandwich then like clock work every time I eat it potentates the fuck out of it I go into this state that all I can describe it as is like the come up on acid in this kinda out of it state then the oxycodone like effects come on , and I sit up all night melting in my PC chair playing PC games. PC gamer here 11k dollar pc water cooled built just for gaming .

TBH kratom is nice , but I have almost totally moved away from it to tianeptine which is by far more like oxycodone , and in fact I like it more then so , and I know what oxy is like since I get 120 30mg IR tabs a month prescribed to me . Now the tianeptine will knock you on your ass I know ;because I took 350mg right before going into me and my wifes friends house yesterday to eat dinner with them , and I was nodding out in my plate of food . Lets just say my wife had to take me home . But boy I was in full blown melt in my seat nod out heaven .
 
Crazyfrog said:
Its been 3 weeks guys, still recovering form kratom. Sent mw to the dr. Im jaundice and still gave nausea. 3 weeks of this. Ohh... with a nasty itch that won't stop. Im soo exhausted. Never again. Let this be a warning to new people. I qas very sensative. Got dark brown urine on the 5th day. Then it was downhill. Luckily all blood work shows no liver damage. But super hifh bilirubin at 12.5. The itch at night keeps me up. Only get about 1 to 2 of sleep for the last 3 weeks. And always wake up drenched in sweat. From reading. .. some people recovered in 2 months. Ill take the 3 days of hell from quiting opiates next time. Gladly take those 3 days.
Click to expand...

uhh what opiates are you talking about when u mention only 3 days of hell??from everything ive read kratom withdrawals are weak when compared to true opiod(vicoden/oxy) withdrawals..
 
belfort said:
uhh what opiates are you talking about when u mention only 3 days of hell??from everything ive read kratom withdrawals are weak when compared to true opiod(vicoden/oxy) withdrawals..
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This must be a 1 in a million case this dude had. lol But tbh man I have had pretty rough withdrawals from Kratom myself with about 18-20 grams a day for a few months I say are about 85% the same as when I came off of a few month binge of 420 mg a day of oxy . Same damn bad RLS same yawning, watery nose eyes, aching bones , and muscles .
 
Recently went to the doctor to get my kidneys checked out. Turns out there's a trace of blood in my pee that I didn't know about (can't see it)
Whether this is from kratom or not is undecided; but it could be a contributing factor especially when I use it every day. I've since slowed down since the tests. I'll follow up the results.
 
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