*sigh* conservatism won...

anybody else highly disappointed with the election result?
:/
i dont have enough background knowledge on politics to really make a sound judgement on this, however i think it a great shame that john howard has been re-elected...
i think that public education, public healthcare and nursing homes/age care are very important parts of our society, and there is no way anybody can say that these three aspects of our lives have improved over the last few years. being an ex part of the public education scheme i can safely say that this system is suffering tremendously.
howards pathetic attempt at making people look down on beazley by digging up old bullshit about his previous mistakes was a dog arse tactic. "beazley left a 10 billion dollar defecit in national treasury" etc etc
even if there is some doubt in the capability of beazley, note howards ability. everybody i know has been disappointed with his actions for so long - so WHY THE FUCK DID HE GET RE-ELECTED? if howard has made so many mistakes, why not let beazley have a go?
sure howard went on about national security and safety from terrorism, but honestly, what was he going to do? raise the gst, let public education and public health care get worse. part of the reason the immigration problem exists to the extent it does at the moment is because howard ruined australias relationship with indonesia, so they no longer attempt to stop their people coming here (a vague and simple explanation of the issue, correct me if im wrong)
in my eyes the people of australia made a bad decision because howard has made many mistakes over the last few years, granted hes a human and we all make mistakes, but im talking about conscious decisions that have had a negative effect on my life. labour should have been elected because 3 terms is far too long for a conservative old fart of 60 years to run this country.

meh.... i'm sorta happy he won... means my job will be a lot better because business confidence will increase... but it was the choice between the lesser of two evils...
the funniest memory from this election has to be this morning on the way back from mystic 6 when Dante* bought the newspaper... read the headline and asked if it was real.... maybe they just released the sketchy times to fuck over ravers... hehehe
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100% Guaranteed!!

It's a general trend in times of 'crisis' that the electorate turns conservative.
The election was pretty much a non-event, not many changes of seats.
Meh.

Ok be nice, i'm not completely up to scratch on the ins and out but isn't the state government party to blame for the state of public education in NSW. Recently, Carr decidated a couple million dollars to fixing up the front entrances of a select few public schools to make them look like private schools. I know that Randwick GHS is one of these schools and from the plans it seems that they are going throw funding to erect a sandstone archway at the front gate.
Now whilst thats all very pretty looking, take 10 steps in and Randwick girls looks just like the public school, shitbox that it is. There's a lack of textbooks, classroom carpets are falling to shreads, chairs and desks are second rate.
I think its great that money is going into the public schools but i think they should be looking after the classrooms and learning environment before the aesthetics.
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sucky...sucky... five dolla.

*Josh dusts off his little red book and warns everybody that he is about to begin a pointless rant*
/rant
Im really fucking sick of the way Australians vote. They make no effort to find out about the issues of the day and are happy to be feed the political bullshit the the major parties come up with. I cant belive that the people of Australia actually bought that asylum seekers bullshit when the most rational excuse that the government could come up with was that it would cost more to keep them here.... that is the biggest lie in the whole world. It has cost us 6 times as much per head to have them processed overseas. Thats upwards of 100million dollars that could have been spent on education or health or social welfare.
It seems to me that many Australians are just interested in themselves. We have created a society driven purely by fear and commercial gain.
Well I have to say that I've had enough. I've written letters to everbody who would pay even the slightest bit of attention, gone to protests, joined political parties, run in student election.... hell I even ran for local council and do you know what I'm FUCKING SICK OF IT. I cannot be bothered flogging this dead horse anymore.
I should say that I was impressed by the number of people who voted green this election. It was heartening to see that there are at least a few people in our society who do feel the same way as me.
And to all those people who donkey voted. In my electorate that would have been a vote for One Nation.... is that really what you want?
/end rant
I'll get over the election result and I'll undoubtably be back doing green peace and socialist alternative petitions. And without fail those on the other side of politics will do the same.
I just want to clarify that my beef is not with those who have examined the facts and have made the decision to vote for the right of the political spectrum. My problem is with those who refuse to find out the facts and then make a decision based on fear and political propoganda.

I am living in a country full of ignorant, selfish, immoral fools, a country with leaders who are too weak, unwilling and unethical to take the moral stance when it is required of them. Leaders so wrapped up in their lust for power that their vision for our nation, and indeed this world, extends no further than the next election.
It's a sad indictment on the character and moral decency of the Australian population, that they will elect a government because of a policy that is totally amoral and unacceptable. I am ashamed to live in a country with these people, these selfish, ignorant, pathetic creatures who dare to call themselves humans
Why are people unable to look beyond their own hip pocket, beyond these unfounded, irrational fears, unable to look beyond them and make a vote with their conscience, a humanitarian vote, a decent vote, a vote that says - I don't only care about myself, my kids, my house and my car, but also about the welfare of the entire human race.
I could go on, but I'll just get myself worked up. The only good result in the election was the increase in the vote for the greens. But then that vote was taken away from the ALP and the Democrats, when really it should have come from the Coalition vote.
One thing that has continualy aggivated me about this election is that Howard has so often quoted the all time low interest rates as a reason people should vote for the Coalition. What any partially intelligent econonomics student will tell you however, is that the reason we are able to have such low interest rates is because of comprehensive microeconomic reform that began back in the hawke and keating governments. This helped make Australia's econonomy much more efficient and brought inflation under control, thus allowing the R.B.A to operate more expansionary monetary policy- lowering interest rates to increase economic growth and employment levels.
Yes the Howard government continued the process of reform, but it began a long time ago.
Furthermore, rates are low all around the world because of the global downturn in economic activity. Every country has been slashing rates to encourage a recovery, the U.S's are at 2% and Japans are practically zero.
anyways, i said i was going to stop ranting and now i will
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He's tricking us into meaning and pulling the rug out from under us at the same time. A nod, wink and a power fade to a culture that can't contain the labelisms any longer--the trickster is always the most subversive element in any culture--he leads us to our demise while inducing us to laugh, dance and die along the way.

Josh - nice one, i was heartened by the increasing green vote.. maybe an alternative is yet to come. I can respect everyone's opinions, and unlike labor, the greens actually even had convincing-sounding policy . Altho you are pushing shit up a hill with socialism in Australia... that's the religion of them there refugee seekers innit?
Melancholic -

howard has made many mistakes over the last few years

Click to expand...

howards pathetic attempt at making people look down on beazley by digging up old bullshit about his previous mistakes was a dog arse tactic

Click to expand...

much of a muchness bro.

everybody i know has been disappointed with his actions for so long - so WHY THE FUCK DID HE GET RE-ELECTED

Click to expand...

- a lot of people i know are a lot happier with a lib government rather than the prospects of a labor one, i don't think the people who were dissapointed with him that you know voted for him, they just weren't in the majority.

moment is because howard ruined australias relationship with indonesia, so they no longer attempt to stop their people coming here (a vague and simple explanation of the issue, correct me if im wrong)

Click to expand...

Indo has never stopped boat people coming here. Never. And Beazley's suggestions that he would get a 'dialogue' with Megawati is absolute bullshit. True, Howard has fucked indo relations, but Beazley has got 1/20th the chance Howard does of rectifying them.

labour should have been elected because 3 terms is far too long for a conservative old fart of 60 years to run this country

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So age is a requirement to the capabilities of a leader? 3 terms is too long? conservatives can't run the country?
Meh, to quote Josh "My problem is with those who refuse to find out the facts and then make a decision based on fear and political propoganda."

If you don't like the way the majority of Australians voted then you can always leave.......
Kandeman ... sick of whingers, get on with life
[This message has been edited by Kandeman (edited 11 November 2001).]

"Indo has never stopped boat people coming here. Never. And Beazley's suggestions that he would get a 'dialogue' with Megawati is absolute bullshit. True, Howard has fucked indo relations, but Beazley has got 1/20th the chance Howard does of rectifying them."
That's bullshit SupaspeeD and you know it. I'm no more proud of Labor's stance on this issue, but Meloncholic has a point. Under the Keating Government -a government that recognised the importance of maintaining strong ties with our regional Asian neighbours- Australia's relationship with Indonesia was much stronger and the Indonesian authorities did make some effort to halt people smugglers.
The Howard Governments turn away from Asia towards the US, and ultimately our intervention in E.Timor, soured relations with Indonesia. I'm not suggesting that we should not have intervened, simply stating the consensus about the situation. This in turn resulted in Indonesia giving up all efforts to stop people smugglers from heading towards Australia.
"Kandeman ... sick of whingers, get on with life"
If it wern't for whingers, you'd probably still be shining the shoes of the aristocracy, whose luxurious lifestyle your back breaking work would support.
Im sorry Kandeman, this isn't a personal attack on you, I just fucking HATE people who couldn't give a shit about the plight of others, simply because they've got it good. It's because of people like you that the human race has not evolved or progressed to the point which it could. We make think that the world is a wonderful place, that people are free and equal, but we are dillusional.
I need to get some sleep but I'll leave you with a quote from Professor of Moral philosophy at the University of London - Raimond Gaita
"Why merely because we are fortunate to be born in a particular location on this earth, should we enjoy wealth, health and security and be able, in the name of sovereignty, to deny it to others who, mereley because they are born elsewhere suffer the miseries and the humiliations of the damned?"
If any of you wish to argue with me, I'll be happy to sit down for a beer and some heated debate...after exams of course.
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He's tricking us into meaning and pulling the rug out from under us at the same time. A nod, wink and a power fade to a culture that can't contain the labelisms any longer--the trickster is always the most subversive element in any culture--he leads us to our demise while inducing us to laugh, dance and die along the way.

Munk....
I couldn't agree more.
It is aggrovating to dwell in a society which bases its preference soley on their own situation. Granted, there is always that personal element in an electoral decision, but it is indeed a sad indightment on australians in general when they cant see beyond the rhetoric of politicians and make and informed judgement based on issues more pertinent to the society that those concerning the size of their wallet, ie: social issues for the disaffected in our society.
I am by no means a socialist, but obviously i have a certain "left" element inside me (as if that wasn't bleedingly obvious )
..to an current or prospective university students, i sure hope you realise that the ALP has a proviso for more funding to tertiary institutions....the coalition plans for less than what labour planned
...once again tertiary students, more distinctly those of you who will be paying HECS, the ALP said that it would re-institute(libs changed it) the HECS payment plan whereby you begin to repay once your earning average wage ....where as the libs are commited to keeping the plan that once you earn minimum wage the ATO begins to knock at your door.
food for though in any case.
sigh

Backing up Munk and Josh all the way...
I voted Green for both Senate and House of Reps. My first vote, and I feel like something worthwhile came of it!
-plaz out-
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[ C E N S O R E D ]

munke & even - good stuff!
Yesterday was a sad, sad day for our country, the extent to which may not be realised for many years.
What a great message that Australia's people have sent to the entire world! - that the majority of australian voters support indecent, amoral and xenophobic policy platforms - that of our whole country the best we can do for political leaders are Beazley and Howard - that in the face of international outcries for a humanitarian approach to asylum seekers, and the first public condemnations of the governments approach by past political leaders, the majority of Australians approve of such appalling measures.
What ignorancy.
We are living in a backwards country.
Our country has lost international respect.
Howard and the Coalition's policies contradict themselves.
We have been deceived.
Im not surprised though. Beasley had it coming all along if he thought he could maintain support by mirroring the governments approach. Perhaps he might have had a better chance if he had been more forward-thinking and opposed the government on those issues.
Just thinking of another term of government with Liberal party favourites like Howard, Ruddock, Alston, Kemp... fuck i need a beer.
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motherfuckers better realize, now is the time to self actualize.

As a former uni student and nurse in the public hospital system I am apalled at the choice Australia has made for political party/prime minister. It seems that Australia really is a conservative country and we've learned nothing from past mistakes.
The liberal party has no respect for health care or nurses. I'm sick and tired of reading articles in the paper about leukaemia patients waiting too long for bone marrow transplants because of bed closures due to nursing shortages; people dying on waiting lists for elective surgery because of shortages; doctors and nurses making errors because of workloads/shortages - when is this government going to wake up?
A well known nursing uni educator stated recently that 20 years ago, to be a nurse in critical care you needed post grad qualifications - now? You need to be standing upright with a pulse - this is not a criticism of current nurses, it is however the future of nursing - that hospitals are so desperate for nursing staff, they will hire anyone. I, for one, do not ever want to go to hospital - and don't think for a minute that the private hospital system is any better.
A friend said to me on the w/e that Howard got the votes because of the war and the refugee crisis - it is unbelievable to me that people AGREE with what he's done. Its unbelievable to me that people have voted for a person who has consistently refused to apologise to indigenous people for past atrocities despite the fact that other countries have done so.
And the thing that really pisses me off? The little sonofabitch looked so goddam smug when he won!

well you guys (munk, mikey, evan etc.) have said it all
id just like to add that i feels its a national embarrassment to have alexander downer as a foreign minister.. the man is a snivelling gimp.... thats prolly why our internation relations are so fucked...

Ok, I consider myself to be a lefty. But strange as it may be, I always vote conservative. Mainly because I don't want australia to become a desperately poor country and I want to my children and my childrens' children to be able to enjoy this country like I have.
Having said that our government stance on education, health and the environment is appauling. But I personally believe that the people of australia should be doing more themselves to improve australia than just relying on the government to take the right stance.

Australians are racist, they picked the Howard government solely on the basis of a war with those towel-heads and the stopping of those damn boaties coming to our shores. Bunch of herartless fuckers, don't they realise what ignorant people they are!
Only those that voted labor/green/democrat know the real issues like public education, public health, 'reconciliation' and the 'correct' way to deal with the boatpeople.
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I don't know how voting left suddenly makes you 'right' in your answers to these issues.
I don't fully agree with all of Howard's policies, nor all of labor's nor the democrats, nor the greens. But, i think Howard is the leader i prefer, and thus i voted for him.
I went to a public school, i work in a hopital, but i couldn't possibly know anything about these issues, i'm an socially-ignorant rich-boy who hates aboriginals and refugees, i'll never need public health care and i'll only be sending my kids to those grade A schools like Kings in Sydney... meh, there doesn't need to be an 'enemy' as such, just people with different views... funny that i should be praching tolerance i guess in your views.
My thoughts on refugees are basically this - yes let some in at a quota level, and ensure that
a) claims are asessed appropriately
b) inappopriate people are deported/dealt with in an appropriate manner
c) make the process as speedy as possible to stop enforced detentions going on too long and
d) we don't become seen as the soft-touch of the 1st world for people smugglers.
i don't see labor doing this or the Dem's fully - so i didn't vote for them. Howard doesn't do it fully either, but i think he may take note of some other ideas on the issue and can achieve those goals the best.
Munk -

Indonesian authorities did make some effort to halt people smugglers

Click to expand...

- my empahsis
I don't know where people have got the idea that Indo, Iran, Iraq, Afghanistan, et al actually want to stop the flow of illegal immigrants out of their countries. What reason would they stop them coming to our shores for? Can you give me one? Apart from Australia offering incentives?
I didn't think so. As i've said before, our immigration policy is pretty fucking kind in the scheme of things. There are better countries around, but we are not as *evil, racist and anti-humanitarian* as the left likes to paint anyone who doesn't follow socialism.

informed judgement based on issues more pertinent to the society that those concerning the size of their wallet, ie: social issues for the disaffected in our society

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So how i am affected financially isn't important, as long as welfare is healthy, public health is excellent and the disaffected get their due. Shit why do i vote then? Maybe i should give it to the 'socially disaffected' only their interests are important. Dammit, i knew they always had the right ideas about society! I better get informed too, all this rhetoric is making me a racist and an elitist.
E*van - i'm happy to pay back my uni debts whenever i can, however i can. I think of tertiary education as something that is in some ways a right, but also something that is a privelidge. Shit, if you have to pay for tertiary education boohoo, at least we have the option to complain about it. I think of my HECS debt as an investment in my future, becuase hopefully all of us (those that study) will have more beneficial (both economically and mentally) lives because of education, and thus the cost is worth it.
Sunflower - "we've got these massive shortages in nursing care, but we can't just hire anyone!" is basically the crux of what you are saying. I mean shit, being a nurse isn't the easiest job in the world, and a lot of people would actively avoid ever being involved, but when people seek out the career - a possible change for the better, its criticised as the people are unskilled.
What the government can do to increase nursing numbers while making sure all of them are highly skilled experts isn't something i heard from any party. But goddamn that Howard he must've fucked it up - smug prick that he is.
just another point

A friend said to me on the w/e that Howard got the votes because of the war and the refugee crisis - it is unbelievable to me that people AGREE with what he's done

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This isn't an attack, but how could your friend know this was how John Howard won?
Everyone is inferring that because Howard won, Australian's are racist because they chose him over the boat people issue. I don't know anyone yet that's claimed this as the reason they voted lib. But all those lib's are racist at heart anyways, so it must be true. The real racists voted one nation i thought...
MDMA 3:16 - look at liberal environmental policy.. i was actually very suprised to see it. They have dedicated more money, supported the National Heritage Trust, etc more than the labor party pledged. In the lesser of two evils...
This is my last point on topic here, people probably have a different opinion of me because of my ideas or whatever, and that's why i don't particularly like to discuss my views, becuase the majority of young australian's see anyone with a different view as, basically, the enemy. I'm sorry that you don't feel we have a socially progressive government, or one that is humanitarian enough on a world stage, but i'm glad Howard got in - and yes, i voted labor in the state election so there .
I don't want to say anymore on this because 29/30 people see me as a twat and i'm not gaining any friends here.

I recently spent some time travelling through Europe and Asia, and I am yet to see a nation the is less racist that Australia.
Not allowing refugees in due to security or economic reasons is not racism guys. If the government had turned around and said "we're not letting em in cos they're not white" that's racist.
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Everyone knows cool hit it's peak in 1974.

Supa,
Babe, you're not a twat. No-one has said that you are.... although a few people have directed comments like this at John Howard.
Methinks you're feeling threatened because the majority of people posting in this thread (and a couple of others) don't feel the way that you do. Don't take it personally. No-one is directing their anger or disappointment at you.
They're just expressing their discontent at the return of the Howard Government for a further 3 years. *Finn gasps in horror* :O
I for one have enjoyed immensely debating the issues with you over the last week. It's always nice to participate in intelligent discussion with someoone who thinks slightly differently to you.
Don't go changin'!
Finn
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"The terra nullius of the Australian mind is alive and well and
nothing other than political leadership and effective community
education is likely to change that." Senator Aden Ridgeway - Speech to the UN, March 2001

Supa - although I don't agree with alot of what you have said - for my own reasons - I commend you on having an opnion of your own and not being afraid to express it even though there is the possibility of being flamed, Bluelight has enough sheep - not bad for a twat
But as for me, I'm disapointed in the re-election of Mr. Sheen for the many reason's stated by Munk(E) and *sunflower* (good to see you back )
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"Never trust a man who, when left alone in a room with a tea cozy, doesn't try it on" - Billy Connolly

i was just giving a simplistic explanation of my thoughts, cos i dont have much knowledge at all on political issues...
but it shits me that much of the election campaign turned into a personal battle between the two leaders... attacking each other, trying to prove who was best. yes i know this is the first election that ive been old enough to take any notice in so i dont actually know whether previous campaigns were this way as well, but shouldnt the emphasis be more on party policy and issues to do with australia? rather than digging up old bullshit about beazley being at a meeting with keating to do with the sale of telstra and other bull... yes he was at the meeting, and as he said, he was there because he was invited to listen in - not because he was planning to sell it. even in the slight chance that he may have agreed to sell it, the point is nealry ten years later he has stated throughout the entire campaign that he is opposed to selling it.
back up munk here, sorry supa, but both my parents take an extensive view on political issues and place large emphasis on their vote based on facts not rumours. keating did have good relations with the indonesian government, and they stopped people smugglers because it was due from the good relations we had with them. even if their reason was because we offered incentives, that would be because our relations with them were good, and we helped them and they helped us. now, when megawati wond return howards calls, is this a step forward?
what i said about howard being too old is a mere statement, consider this, do you go out at night with your grandma or your mate of similar age? your mate obviously, why? because your grandma would rather be at home watching tv, and she doesnt like drugs, fast cars, violent movies etc (generalisation but you get the point). what im saying is the country has changed drastically over the last century, therefore we must have changing leaders to equal it. howard has been in government for 6 years - he is conservative ie not as open to change as the labour party. who are you kidding mate, you take drugs as many other people on this site do, dont deny that you disagree with the drug laws that are in place, and then consider that someone who is opposed to major change, is very likely to strengthen the current laws that you disagree with, rather than take a practical look at them and reshape them.
basically, im not opposed to old age, but my point remains that people of 60 years plus generally have a very different viewpoint on life than people our age (16-30**) and then when they are conservative, its even worse.
(not to say labour would change drug laws but a younger leader who isnt conservative would be more open to possible changes in relation to any issue which needs it)
and supa, on the issue of nurses, note that part of the reason there are so little nurses and the requirements of a nurse are so little is because the education system is failing. there arent enough people finishing school with the capabilities of nursing, thus they have to lower the requirements.
i dont necessarily think that australians voted liberal because they are racist, more because a major portion of the vote is going to come from people who have no knowledge of the political spectrum and dont care to find out - thus they only vote because they have to. those people, who dont give a shit about the whole thing, watching tv one night might see one of those derogatory liberal adds that fed bullshit into peoples heads about labour, thus they simply go, ok ill vote liberal. (once again a simple theory of mine )
i honestly think that if more people in australia took an educated approach towards their voting then liberal would not have been elected.
and supaspeed - no offence man im just stating my opinions, not trying to flame you!

-EDIT-
** sorry Finn! i was using those ages for emphasis, just trying to get my point across. i am 18, so 12 years older than me is old ehehe nah just kidding, its all good, i have respect for you oldies! (well most of you!)
[This message has been edited by melancholic (edited 12 November 2001).]