Why arent we allowed to have fun?

Why is it that after all these years, we have to subject to "other ppls whinging" about putting on warehouse/other-venues-besides-fucking-clubs parties?
Why is it that after a 'joining of cultures' we had to give up what it really was, to place parties in clubs? In true terms, after the so called 'joining', warehouse parties shouldnt have died, they should have prospered *which they did*...there were huge turnouts @ TT and welcome 2000 *both at the docks*...yes yes, i understand the fricken docks arent available anymore, but for fucks sake, there are 100's of industrial parks in and around melbourne that contain empty warehouses...
if security/safety is an issue, then get more fucking guards and more St Johns first aiders there...if there are too many drunken underages, dont let em in, or have an over 18 policy *it shouldnt come to this*...if drugs are a problem..oops that just might be it....so i have to subject to going to fucking clubs because some very inexperienced partiers OD'ed?? increase awareness, help ur fellow partier, guide them...if there is a girl, 14 years old, and she came upto u asking for a particular drug, dont point her in the dealers direction, let her know that what she is after might be a lil too hard for her first drop...WHY DID WE ALL STOP CARING????
believe me when i tell u this *im sure u all know* the whinging old d00ds who say the sound is too fucking loud for them wouldnt give a fuck if they knew there werent ppl OD'ing in their area...my auntie who is passing 65 lived not 5 minutes from westgate and she always told me about the music she used to hear, but back then there werent any problems and she was fine with it...but now??? forget about it.
Im just pissed off that i have to pay the same price to goto a party in a club.
P.S. If anyone out there thinks that going to warehouse parties is JUST cool, then screw u.
[This message has been edited by petey (edited 11 May 2001).]

Excellent point, dude.
I'm not particularly fazed where I dance. A club, a warehouse, a middle of the fuggin bush, I don't care.
Crowds can be the problem. Depending on the venue the crowd can be good or bad, and half of a good nite (at least) depends on the crowd.
I've got to admit that now I'm getting on a bit (22) and I see all these "young punks" in front of everyone trying to score a pill. But it takes time to learn the rules, and they're not hurting me or bringing my nite down, so fuck them.
There's other factors obviously, but otherwise its all good.
my 0.02c

definitely some good points in that msg, petey..
warehouses are taboo these days, unfortunately..and that's because there's been some recent issues (such as the westgate problem) that have made promoters lose enthusiasm quickly, since warehouses usually attract a broad band of people from all walks of life, age, etc..
personally i think the problem lies within, as there's not a lot of parties that can cater for an all age/different background event due to the fact that you just never know what to expect from patrons..there's always going to be a 1:100 ratio..being 1 person complaining to 100 people rocking
..not forgetting the fact that there's always that touchy issue of council permits and the likes..it's a costly event if you fuck it up...
that's why i think a lot of parties have moved to clubs which, occasionally, have 'speciality nights'..which comprises of themes designed for a certain group of patrons who will go solely for that reason
..i'd say it's a peace of mind thing..
..i'd love to go back to the warehouse thing as well for certain parties..
maybe there'll be some underground movement in the near future that we can all look forward to..
my 2 pesos..

What is the 'Westgate problem', I am not aware of any problem there. This probably because I have chosen not to go there lately due to the bad crowds. Can someone tell me what the hell happened over there?

slaanesh:
westgate problem occured at the last party up in altona (couple of months ago)...a 14 year old (she might have been 15) OD'd...and apparently on the same night, around 5 others also OD'd...

Cheers petey. I feel your pain my friend but after reading some of the older posts concerning this issue:
http://www.bluelight.ru/ubb/Forum16/HTML/001445.html?reload=17
http://www.bluelight.ru/ubb/Forum29/HTML/000004.html?reload=103
I'm sort of on the fence concerning the club vs warehouse debate. It seems as though the larger venues are promoted a hell of a lot more to make up the numbers and that usually results in the numbers being made by idiots and band wagon jumpers.
What we need is a new way to promote parties that are medium to small sized and more intimate. Istead of the usual flyer on the floor of a shop or poster on the pole outside of Bell Street Maccas, we need special web based mailing lists that will send out flyers digitally to all subscribers of that list.
The problem with the current ways of promotion is that anyone that sees these flyers can come along whether they like the DJ's or not. I think we need to make it a bit more exclusive and difficult for people who don't belong there to find these places. I think the reason that Kryal is always so successful in terms of the crowd is because idiots are not as willing to travel so far to see and hear something they are not passionately interested in.
I remember the days when you had to go out and find what parties were on. Now you simply have to step out of you house and you are bombarded with flyers and posters everywhere.
With so much money in the scene these days it's the promoters who are to blame for the decline in quality in our scene. So promoters, get your act together and promote to the right target audience not to every joe blow who happens to be hanging around their local shopping center or Maccas.

slaanesh, it seems we do agree with each other
the underground scene (the one i know about, as im sure others may know of other "undergound" scenes too) is going to be the only thing i will support...i luv the music and i luv the atmosphere...yes, ppl can do as they wish, wether is be drugs/alcohol/sex, whatever....but if i see someone in need, im gonna help out cause thats the person i am...
one thing really got to me the other day, someone was telling me that will e tell is melbournes best underground dj...and this was coming from a person who talked about drugs as if they were 100% needed to have fun..after a short chat with him, he saw where i was coming from and agreed so the scene can be salvaged...unfortunately the scene is too big for 1 person to run around helping....so as i said before, keep it real and keep it safe.
slaanesh: do u have icq? we should meet up some time.
See u in the underground.

Petey: No ICQ yet but I will be getting it very shortly. As for meeting up, that would be cool. Maybe at the next good "underground" party. I'm sure we'll see a thread for a meetup at a party we are both willing to be at. See you then.

There's a thread over here too which is on the same topic... It's closed now tho...
Now, I loved the warehouse parties when I started going out and I still love them now, but I also love some of the parties that have been in clubs, both when I started going out and now...
And I've also been to a few parties in both warehouses and clubs which have been pretty damn dodgy...
It's not the venue that's important to me, both warehouses and clubs can be used to hold a fantastic party, just as long as the crew putting on the show does their job right, the DJs and producers do their job right, and the people who come along have the right attitude...
I agree with slaanesh too, the smaller and more intimate parties I've been too have been the better ones... When Mr. C came down from the UK and played at the Palace not many people came along to see him... Most people would have seen 'Mr. C' on the flyer and gone "Who?"... The people who did come along knew who he is tho, and that's what made the party great, the people there (only a small crowd, maybe 300, possibly less, I'm no good at estimating numbers) were all there because they knew who he was and that they were in for a good night... And it was awesome, and the music he played was trully underground, and UK underground according to the man himself... It was music I've never heard before or since... Kind-of a cross between deep house, techno, and trance... but not really either... too hard to describe...
Anyway, back on topic... I don't enjoy the larger parties as much these days because the crowds they attract are comprised of too many people with the wrong attitude...
Bring on the smaller, more intimate, and yeah ok, 'underground' parties...
Thankfully most good DJs and producers play at smaller clubs as well as their larger and more publicised gigs so you don't have to miss out on them if you don't wanna (or can't afford) to shell out $50+ to see them in a big club/warehouse...

I personally much prefer parties in outdoor or warehouse type environments. Theres something to be said for a place that has a whole other function (or none at all) being transformed for a night into a place for a party. It adds a whole new level to the atmosphere.
I also prefer those venues because you do end up with a better crowd. All clubs have there normal typical crowd - which is often quite different from the sort of crowd we like at parties. There are exceptions, such as Yaki, but this is true for the majority of venues. For example, we all know QBH is frequented by greasy wog boys with their mesh shirts, attitude problems (especially where women are concerned) and their "ekkies" (ok - I'm stereotyping, but you get the point). There is NO WAY you can convince me that these same people wont turn up at a party held there on a Friday/Saturday night - just because its a "rave" style party rather than a normal cheesy club night. Venues have a regular type of crowd - and there is going to be a large percentage of that crowd at any event held there. And unfortunatly there are very few venues that have a regular crowd that is the same as the people who used to attend warehouse/outdoor parties.
All that being said, however, getting venues outside of the club circuit is getting very, very hard. You have to find an owner who is willing to go ahead despite all the negative media recently, and then you have to get through all the red tape that appears. At the moment we're trying to find a venue to hold the next PanicStrickenBovine party (Kryal will be a bit cold until after winter). If anyone has real, viable suggestions then I'd love to hear them.

As much as you aren't going to like this... you will have to follow brisbane on this one.
Up here we have the mailing list (email) called VINYL KNICKERS which updates all the local underground psy-trance events, techno warehouse parties and the best in dj's coming to the clubs. A huge diversity of stuff is covered (97% of which is top quality) at a large number of venues - strictly only for those in the know to get onto the list. A lot of wicked events are publiscised through here, and it is a simple and quick way to find out about what's going down.
I know melbourne is bigger/badder/whatever - but VK covers everything from byron to brissie and covers outdoor, indoor, underground, commercial etc. Updated faster than any street press and/or other media - follow brisbane's lead.
haha... Queeeeenslander!!

(cutting and pasting my reply from the closed thread):
i've had it with clubs as far as the bigger events are concerned. we pay far too much money for a fraction of the experience we'd get at say a warehouse venue. having to push up against a sea of people talking at the top of their voices and waiting to spill their vodkas and vbs on you while you struggle to catch a glimpse of the dj just isn't worth the $40+ promoters still insist on charging. oh, and the ticket price doesn't include dancing space.
i'm still trying to cling to the idea of people power by not supporting club events whenever i can help it. unfortunately, if one weighs the usual number of club event attendees (fuckin swarms of em) against the ticket prices worked out by the promoters for profits, it really doesn't seem likely that promoters are going to forgo what i'm assuming is relatively easy, consistent money for the 'good of the scene.' i'm aware that i've made some arguable statements so please feel free to disagree, people (especially promoter dudes), cos i'm really interested in knowing what the real story is.
***
adding on to that and after reading some of the other replies, do you guys really think that promoters are going to cut down on advertising just to please the relatively small minority of us who feel that crowded club events are shite? from what i can see, the vast majority don't seem bothered by it. i'd go so far as to say that a fair few even enjoy the fact that they are one of the fifty million people priveleged enough to be jammed into a tiny venue for a big dj event. even if the few of us eventually decide to boycott these events, i'd wager that the promoters will continue to make piles of money. as far as the big names go, i personally think that cutting down on advertising just isn't an option from the practical side of things.
essentially, i think it's gonna take the combined efforts of those who feel strongly enough about this and promoters like the bovines who aren't just out there to make a quick buck, to stop the prostitution of the scene or perhaps, to create a new 'scene.'
as far as the big promoters and their events go, i think it comes back to that business-consumer relationship:
promoters: how far are you willing to push for profits at the expense of your credibility, even if it's in the eyes of the smaller demographic?
us: how much and how often are we willing to pay for events even if we feel that we might not be getting our money's worth?
outside of that, i applaud those organisers more dedicated to the music and the people and can only wish them the best of luck, hoping that they continue to persevere in what must surely be an uphill battle. obviously, it's also up to us to support these guys whenever we can.
there is hope... remember wild things 2
[This message has been edited by yaya (edited 12 May 2001).]

I don't think the club vs warehouse debate would be such an issue if the parties held at clubs were not so over crowded. Large venues are hard to fill up to the point of not being able to dance, even if they have been over promoted. That is why I blame money hungry promoters for this flaw in our scene. I have been going to raves for nearly 7 years now and quite frankly I'm a bit sick of the monopoly that Hardware is enjoying. I say fuck Hardware and fuck Agent Mad, lets all support The Panic Stricken Bovine Crew. WTWTA2 - Thanks for the memories. Oh and lets not forget the Teriyaki boys - you guys rock too.

yes yes slaanesh...
but, we cant forget that 10 years ago, this is how it started *underground or not* (in melbourne)...now the scene is evolving...so, the ppl who luv it to death (us) take a portion of whats left, and start again (the cycle of life)....
thats why i have the highest respect for those who take a chance *the smaller crews who have the brains and the know-how* (in success or failure)...i always have and always will support them....
This is a revolution.
The Underground Movement
[This message has been edited by petey (edited 13 May 2001).]

i'm a lazy cunt and couldn't be fucked reading the threads...this is my opinion though
it is piss easy to put a party on in a club.
u need dj's, decor,promotions, possibly sound/lighting but not usually....and staff.
what do u need to throw a warehouse party:
time to find a venue, time to spice up the venue, a LOT more decor etc, complete sound and lighting, generators sometimes, security (warehouses are big = lots of guards), staff, promotion, dj's, stjohns, liability, permit, and also the worry of people complainging about sound pollution on the night....
plus u actutally have to convince a warehouse owner to allow a 'rave party 'rife' with drugs and junkies and people o'ding' to go on in there premises...

to begin...yes, warehouse-styled venues take the cake when it comes to holding parties.
petey: yes i was just about to say, without the mass promotion and *cringe* commercialisation of the music, there wouldn't be an underground movement. It's a vicious cycle, the masses will always be a step behind, and the diehard fans would be the ones to propel the movement forward. I'll just stop here in case this opens up another whole can of worms
anyhow, i was just thinking, how much effort would it take for the supporting crew (read: djs, sound & lighting techies, promoters) to band together and start issuing demands (well it sounds extreme in this case, but just to illustrate a point here) to organisers? Something like "hey, we are not liking it very much that we support a party, the venue sucks balls, and the much loved punters here get the short end of the deal....so, find better venues or we just won't be showing up for your parties"
For this to happen, well, the supporting cast members themselves must be in unison that club-styled venues just don't cut it for the international big names, and secondly (and more importantly) they must be willing to give it up for the scene (as much as i hate to use the word)
my point is, IF local support for parties do not come easily to party organisers, then MAYBE they will start listening and make an effort to work hand in hand with the community. Not that I think any of the big players would care very much about the neglected punters, or support crews being willing to sacrifice money to be earned/gigs to play, but wouldn't it be nice if the playing ground was levelled a bit in our favour
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Repetition is the key to success. Repetition is the key to success.