Create Your Reality

Since I've been on bluelight I've read a many posts on the subject of drugs and legality, and as expected this board leans heavily towards the side of legality - often ignoring or making no attepmt to look into the resoning of prohibition. I don't see this as a fault in anyone on this board -as we base our answers on our experiences, responsibilties and stage's we are in our lives. Someone who is young, at school and living at home is going to have a different outlook to life than someone like me. So I understand and respect everyone's opnions
But, let's step out of the circle for awhile and put some thought into this. You've been given creative control of society and you have a choice of whether to make drugs a legal product or keep it illegal. What would you do? If made legal, how would you control it? What social impacts do you forsee? Think about this carefully and present your case - I'm really interested in what people have to say. Try and think past your circle and think about the social aspects of all - even you as a parent?
Are legal recreational drugs are reality in your society?
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CEO of B.O.A.R
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oh, NICE question Haste!!
Ok, I wouldnt 'legalise' drugs, not even marijuana. I would decriminalise marijuana, put ecstasy as scedule 3, and open up safe injection rooms around the country for starters.
I would pump a massive amount of money into research, and drug education would improve. I would take a similar stance to drugs as Holland (although they are currently feeling the pressure of the EC, which is coming from the states) Belgium has just decriminilised marijuana I believe as well.
I would promote the use of testers, and open up labs (well, not open up, just ask them to offer gas chromatography (???) testing for ecstasy)
I would bring it all out into the open, and deal with it not by pushing it under the carpet, but by promoting safety in use, and education. (I think the governments approach of getting parents to talk to kids is a really great idea)
Um...I'll wait for other people to post some more ideas before I say anything more
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-=Tribal council has spoken=-

Yes... VERY good question!!! This should be interesting...
I've never believed that all drugs should be legal in society, and I don't think I've ever posted anything like that (not that I recall anyway - if I did then I must not have been thinking cos it's not my true belief... that or I was playing devils advocate just to spark debate ). It's hard to articulate what I do truly believe though... if it was an easy thing to explain then someone would have come up with a solution to the drug problem by now. But I'll give it my best go - sorry if it is just a jumble of ideas rather than a properly coherent argument...
I think the reason that drugs are illegal is because we need to protect the ignorant. To just about everyone on bluelight, most drug laws are a total joke - everything the government says we seem to be able to contradict with actual experiences we have had. We on bluelight though are generally a well educated bunch of people, who most of the time will not misuse drugs.
Which is why I think that a lot of people are fond of the idea that education is the answer rather than prohibition. If everyone understood what the average bluelighter does about drugs, then there'd be no problem.
Why that won't work though is because, to put it bluntly, some people are stupid. They not only are not capable of understanding, but they also have no desire to learn. You can mail them as many pamphlets as you want, and the best you can hope for is that they use them to start the fire in the morning.
Travel up to New to XTC and you'll find examples (not too many though). I remember a post saying something along the lines of "I know it's bad to take 6 pills on a night, but the rush is mad". And this person is apparently one of the educated! How about the person who doesn't even want to know that it might be bad? Drugs are illegal so that hopefully Joe Moron won't end up dead by doing something that he really should try to understand first (but won't).
So that's why I believe that full legalisation won't work, but what should we do instead? For starters I believe that something should be done to realistically scale penalties (if any) from what they currently are. Marijuana can quite easily be decriminalised. I think that LSD does not need to be treated quite as harsh (as potent as it can be - it doesn't have much potential for real physical injury). Something like GHB though is the stuff the governments should be watching (sorry to the G fans) because it is a drug which can quite easily (and accidentally in most cases) be misused - with possibly severe consequences or even death.
Those are just examples I came up with on the spot though - don't hold me to them. My point was that as time goes on we need to constantly re-evaluate the impact various substances have on society and figure out which one is the actual problem at the moment (not the media's current opinion - which is more likely to be sensationalist rather than objective).
I could go on forever about this... I haven't even touched on the idea that there are some people in society who will only take drugs because they are illegal. The people rebelling against whatever they happen to be rebelling against probably wouldn't even take drugs if authority figures told them they were allowed to do it.
I might come back to that one later, I'll save it for when there are more responses...
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"It was one of those days, when it’s a minute away from snowing. And there was this electricity in the air. You can almost hear it. And this bag was just... dancing, with me. Like a little kid begging me to play with it. For fifteen minutes. That’s the day I realised that there was this entire life behind things. And this incredibly benevolent force, that wanted me to know that there was no reason to be afraid. Ever..."
[This message has been edited by Pleonastic (edited 09 April 2001).]

As I see it there are three very good points for the legalisation of recreational drugs. I might first just say that I have been an Anti-prohabitionists since high school and hadn't even used any drugs untill some years after I formed this opinion.
The first benefit is economic. If these drugs where legalised the giv could set the price at a level that will drive the black market out of this industry and could also impose taxes in much the same way as Tabacco and Alcohol.
The second benefit is that the taxes collected could be diverted into health management. The fact is that some recreation drug users become adicts (In much the same way as gambling etc) and funds could be used to help this group.
The final reason is that proper research could then be done so that the fall impact of long term drug use (And short term) would be known and this information could then be given to the public so that they can make a fully informed risk assessment of such behaviour.
The fact is that legalisation does not lead to higher usage. In Australia de-crimilisation of dope in Canberra and S.A has not seen an increase in usage in those regions. This has also been found to be true in other parts of the world where various drugs have had penalyties lowered or full on legalisation.
Anyway that's my opinion.
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Vote for the Party, Party, Party at the next election

I've got a lot to say on this issue but don't have the time right now to put together a proper reply...
For the moment tho I'll say this... The legalisation of drugs would remove a lot of problems for those who are educated and responsible about their drug use. As Pleo said if people truly understood what they were doing there wouldn't be a problem, but there's too many people who have very little idea what they're putting into their bodies...
If all drugs were legalised with most people having the same mentality about drugs which they have now there would be chaos... If mdma were as readily available as alcohol (ie you have to be over 18, but there's no limit to how much you can buy as long as you can afford it) too many people would take things too far...
More on this when I have time...

my first thought is that if you made ALL drugs legal, then you would have a fuck load of people messing with strong psychoactives for which Joe Moron is completely unprepared, and completely loosing the plot.
In reference to most common recreational drugs, i agree that legalisation is a good way to go. gives the government the ability to control the drug economy (though that may lead to a very corrupt govt.) and the harm reduction element cannot be overlooked. Govt. health promotions should focus on the safe use of "party drugs", rather than using scare tactics.
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"DJs are like shamans, forging musical paths to other realms....."

incorporate drug-education in school.

Alright here we go...
If all drugs were legalised they'd have to be restricted in the same way alcohol is... That doesn't stop people from abusing it tho, so as Ghost said there would have to be extensive drug education programs in schools. They would have to be done properly tho so that people really know what to expect, instead of the 'take these drugs and you will die' kind of opinion most people now have...
Obviously the most harm would come from people abusing the drugs, so what needs to be done is to change the way people see drugs so that the appeal of abuse is removed... The only way to do that is to bring up people from birth with the idea that getting wasted (on anything) is not something that should be done often, is not something that you should be proud of, is not something that you're expected to do in order to be a part of society, and is not something you do if you want to run from any personal troubles you might be experiencing... And then when people are old enough to understand (starting from primary school with the basics) they should be taught what the drugs actually do to you (cold hard facts backed up by extensive research)... Once that is learnt, then people would be able to enjoy drug use without it leading to misuse, addiction, or death...
Now I've prolly missed something so when someone finds the flaws in that theory lemme know

When and with what process would a drug become legal in your theoritical situation? Does this include all drugs, including life threatening drugs such as PMA? Or would you stipulate that only certain drugs would become legal based on their effects - and in effect not really being any different to governments these days, just having more drugs available apart from alcohol and ciggies?
How do you regulate other more hamrful drugs that the black market creates to sell as cheap alternatives to the legal ones? Do they become legal aswell??
Not as simple as it sounds??
I'm not saying it's not possible - but I guess I'm wanting people to look into the complexities of such an action - you could be opening an even bigger kettle of fish. Look past the standard response of - yeah just regulate it and put in the education system.
Now this is fun, no offence to the peeps in the orgy, single's, I'm hanging for abit thread
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CEO of B.O.A.R
Burnt Out Association of Ravers
....SLIDE BENEATH THE CITY......feel free to visit
Ravers click here for free porn

Firstly the discussion about "legalisation of drugs" is exactly what the government does - groups ALL drugs together, which makes it easier discount the 'softer' ones.
Discussion has to be broken down to discuss different drugs separately otherwise it's too complex and unworkable.
There is a pretty strong argument that there is no way physically addictive drugs such as heroin should not be legalised... but if it is agreed that it is physically addictive, there should be MUCH better programs that deal with heroin addiction as a medical problem (not a criminal choice)... which MIGHT include heroin dispensed in a similar way to methadone...
To me, the biggest hypocrisy is the legality of alcohol, when it kills more people that mdma (for example ). How will young people (and why should they) ever listen to what athorities say when they can see this double standard everywhere???
And finally marijuana! - less addictive than cigarettes, doesn't poison you like alcohol, and doesn't make you do silly things like alcohol and some other drugs... should definitely be decriminalised everywhere - it's no big deal! (to adults like cigarettes)
Although I know the legalisation of something like mdma would hurt me, the effects are just too likeable, and it would be innevitable that many people would abuse it... this has never stopped them with alcohol though
Alcohol sucks grrrrr....

Ok this is what i'd do because i believe in freedom of choice.
I would make all drugs legal to everyone 18+ but would also incorporate a system to make sure the people taking the drugs were educated.
Eg. Marijuana is legal but to purchase but you have to goto a drug education center where you have to listen to someone tell you the FACTS of the drug not any media bullshit just the facts. Now since marijuana isn't classified as a *hard* drug the user may only have to visit this once then 3 monthts later if they were still found to be buying marijuana they'd have to go back and talk to a councellor or someone just to make sure they are using the drug responsibly and the drug isn't controlling them.
For instance someone wanted to try heroin, they would have to go to one of these drug education centers and be told the facts then would have to fill out a questionare to make sure they understoon what they were being told. Since heroin has a high addiction potential this person would only be able to come in at certain times ( once a month or so, not every day) to prevent addiction and supervised injecting rooms would be neccessary.
Each time someone comes in for a drug they are given a restricted amount which would prevent illegal selling of substances. The government could set up special labs were they make many of these drugs so therefore they would be *pure* and would prevent many unknown drug coctail mixtures. Price would probably drop in drugs and money made on purchases of these drugs would be used to fund the education of them and think of all the money saved by taxpayers not having to use lots of $$$$ to put drug users in gaol.
This should give the users total freedom of choice and a great education program to show them the facts not myths. Hard penalties would apply to drug suppliers operating outside this and anyone abusing the system.

One important thing I forgot to mention was that I don't think its possible... not with society the way it is now, and with the way people think regardless of how well they are brought up... Even with all the education people could get there are still going to be stupid people who don't pay attention...
All drugs except those which are classified as poisons can be used in a safe manner, and I'd legalise all of them if there was any chance of everyone being able to use them responsibly... In a perfect world people just wouldn't use the ones which could harm/kill them... but this isn't a perfect world...
I havn't thought too much about how to make it work in today's society because I really don't think it would work... no matter how many safety checks there are to stop people from hurting themselves there are still too many people who would still manage to fuck things up...
I think that seriously thinking about the issue in this way is a good thing tho, if only more of the people in power thought that way... but who knows, maybe one of us will be...

legalise the non-deadly, non-destructive stuff (eg marijuana, MDMA (?), whatever you wanna legalise) BUT:
have drug licenses.
like a driver's license, where you have to go through a training program/education program before you're allowed to buy the drugs, maybe dispensed from a chemist instead of a bottle-o like grog or any fucking place like cigs. Each drug needs a different addition to the license (so you could be licensed to buy marijuana but not heroin maybe).
there's a start, eh?
DQ.
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"Cabbages... knickers.... it's not got a beak!"

Haste: I always have been, and will continue to be, a strong supporter of ensuring that drugs (other than medicinal ones) are kept illegal and that those who break these laws are on the recieving end of the full vigour of the law.
The only exception I would make is alcohol and caffeine. Tobbaco I believe should be removed from the legal list.
My 2c

*chaoscat* - careful - marijuana holds a higher tar level than tobacco and considering alot of it is smoked pure (unwashed like tobacco) and unfiltered, it has a higher health risk. It might not be addictive physically but it very addictive to people with such personalities. It is also proven to cause paranoia and anxeity. It's not without fault
Alcohol abuse kills more people at this stage due to the simple fact that it is far more widely spread than MDMA - it's not an accurate comparison. Also due to lack of extensive research on MDMA, the effects on people long term are unconclusive - we might be doing more damage to ourselves than we know. Alcohol isn't bad, it's people who abuse it, just like people who abuse drugs. If MDMA was consumed on the same level as alcohol do you really think it would all be responsible usage?? I think you'll find that the incidence of casualities would increase - maybe not to the extent of alcohol though.
Legalising a substance because other substances that are harmful are legal is a worry in my mind.
I'm not dissing anyone or any drug - just trying to point out the complexities of such issues. And just remember that the majority of your peace loving, pot smoking, lsd tripping hippies of the sixties who vowed to free speech and free will are now in positions of power and living very down the line lives. I know this is hard for many people, but try and think of this in the position of a parent. Again this is hard because you need to be able to feel this bond, but as a parent myself it is a very complex issue! So, even though I don't agree with alot of what the government does, I do see the difficulties in legislating for such things.
[Matt] - nice theory but I tend to agree with Tarsy on this one. There are too many people that would ignore all this. Shit Tarsy we agree
As far as a issueing a liscence to purchase drugs - how many people would honestly come forward to do this? Also, in comes mister dealer who can offer you anything you want without any gorverment red tape?
Ok I've rambled on and probably pissed enough people off - but it ain't so black and white to me - and someone needs to play devils adovcate to heat things up
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CEO of B.O.A.R
Burnt Out Association of Ravers
....SLIDE BENEATH THE CITY......feel free to visit
Ravers click here for free porn

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[This message has been edited by PeterPoppa (edited 11 April 2001).]

Ooooooo... Sim Drugwar Hope there's no monster attacks...
Anywhoooo, aren't we all just well behaved puppets of society then... Yay democracy!
Why has nobody actually questioned the fact that that no government body should have the right to legislate against my "self destructive" behaviour...
Noone should have the right to control what I say, watch, hear or for that matter ingest... Which is essentially why our democratic society does not work... DEMOCRACY IS THE TYRRANY OF THE MAJORITY!!! And i'm sure each and every one of us has reason to shake hands with and thank the moral majority... I know I do!!!
VIVA LA REVOLUTION!!!
K is a drug for horses...
"NEIGH!!!"

errr so what you're suggesting is Anarchy? No offence dood but I'll stick with what we've got You were joking right??
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CEO of B.O.A.R
Burnt Out Association of Ravers
....SLIDE BENEATH THE CITY......feel free to visit
Ravers click here for free porn

ok... to further elaborate my point of incorporating drug-education in schools:
think of it this way, imagine if everyone is a Bluelighter, or is as well-informed or responsible... would the legalisation be a problem? the key is not just to educate, but also to mould the attitude of pple, starting from the earliest age.
and this doesnt mean just having programs... this means drug education as part of schools' syllabus. starting from Grade 1, all through to Uni level if needed. just like moral education.
this is the most important basis to start legalisation of drugs, i believe.
after which, legalisation would bring about quality control and price control. less pple dying bcos of misuse, or being sold dangerous bunks, or being afraid to seek help.
its all good.
but then thats creating *my* reality, where every user is responsible. there are bound to be mishaps here and there, but not much different from dangers of smoking ciggies or drinking alcohol.

No... But in all seriousness Anarchy now carries somewhat pejorative connotations, generally suggesting instability or chaos, when infact like socialism, democracy etc it is an ideology that a society may strive for, yet cannot ever attain... Anarchy is instead a state of humanity where such social underpinnings are present so as to facilitate a total and complete lack of authority and rule...
Thus, I do to some extent believe in a 'LIBERAL anarchism'... Ie That an individual should enjoy the widest realm of freedom, free from both internal and extrenal constraints upon said individual... However, that said, when an individual's actions encroach on the rights of others', then obviously society has every right to deal with the offender on their own terms...
Just because democracy is better than say communism, does not make it perfect... What stops us from building a better political system from the themes and ideals of others... Of course, do feel free to live a long and unfulfilling life in your crystal tower of social hegemony...