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Opioids Overcoming WD before taking Suboxone

A

appleguy

Greenlighter
Joined
Jun 15, 2012
Messages
36
I posted my situation earlier, but in a nutshell I'm taking about 240mg of percocet daily. I want to get off using suboxone and I've done it before, but the W/D that I go through before taking suboxone is so unbearable. I'm cringing thinking about it. I have a wife and kids who don't know how bad my habit is and I just want to get to the point where I'm comfortable on subs.

Today I read about using Gabapentin to ease the symptoms, that and possibly valium or baclofen can keep the symptoms down and bearable.

My question is this: If i do take Gabapentin to ease the W/D will that act as another opiad and put me in Precipitated w/d if I take subs 24-36 hours after my last dose of percocet? I've had precipitated w/d before and it was hell for 3 days! I can't do that again.

Please help!
 
appleguy said:
I posted my situation earlier, but in a nutshell I'm taking about 240mg of percocet daily. I want to get off using suboxone and I've done it before, but the W/D that I go through before taking suboxone is so unbearable. I'm cringing thinking about it. I have a wife and kids who don't know how bad my habit is and I just want to get to the point where I'm comfortable on subs.

Today I read about using Gabapentin to ease the symptoms, that and possibly valium or baclofen can keep the symptoms down and bearable.

My question is this: If i do take Gabapentin to ease the W/D will that act as another opiad and put me in Precipitated w/d if I take subs 24-36 hours after my last dose of percocet? I've had precipitated w/d before and it was hell for 3 days! I can't do that again.

Please help!
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No, Gabapentin is not an opiate and thus has no impact if in your system while starting suboxone as far as causing PW's.

You don't have to needlessly suffer. You have to wait to take the suboxone until you are in full withdrawal, whenever that is for you. Once you are, you can begin dosing the suboxone. Start very slow and with low doses to help ease the transition. Take 2mg's and wait a couple hours, then take another 2 if needed.
 
Mr.Scagnattie said:
No, Gabapentin is not an opiate and thus has no impact if in your system while starting suboxone as far as causing PW's.

You don't have to needlessly suffer. You have to wait to take the suboxone until you are in full withdrawal, whenever that is for you. Once you are, you can begin dosing the suboxone. Start very slow and with low doses to help ease the transition. Take 2mg's and wait a couple hours, then take another 2 if needed.
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I mostly agree with this except I would start even lower with the sub. Take .5mg when you start feeling sick then gradually dose more every hour until you feel better. I just think its a safer approach for avoiding PWs.
 
Mr.Scagnattie said:
No, Gabapentin is not an opiate and thus has no impact if in your system while starting suboxone as far as causing PW's.

You don't have to needlessly suffer. You have to wait to take the suboxone until you are in full withdrawal, whenever that is for you. Once you are, you can begin dosing the suboxone. Start very slow and with low doses to help ease the transition. Take 2mg's and wait a couple hours, then take another 2 if needed.
Click to expand...

What do you mean by "You don't have to needlessly suffer"? Waiting until full w/d is suffering...is there something I can do to keep the symptoms down?
 
appleguy said:
What do you mean by "You don't have to needlessly suffer"? Waiting until full w/d is suffering...is there something I can do to keep the symptoms down?
Click to expand...

Im gonna give you my .02. This is my experience so don't take it as truth. But I never wait till full withdrawal. As soon as I feel sick I take a tiny piece of sub. Wait a little while then repeat until I feel it. YMMY and you know your body but it does save me some pain and anguish.
 
Britlofex, maybe? When I waited to take my first dose of bupe (ages ago) I found it easy to endure as I knew it would only be temporary, as I had the meds on hand. It was kind of like the feeling of being dopesick, but noticing a reduction in symptoms when my dealer would show ie psychological.
 
appleguy said:
What do you mean by "You don't have to needlessly suffer"? Waiting until full w/d is suffering...is there something I can do to keep the symptoms down?
Click to expand...

It sounded like you were waiting until you were a lot further into your withdrawal than you had to but maybe I misunderstood. Either way, there is always going to be a degree of suffering, man..that's just how it is. I said this in another thread, but consider yourself lucky if you only have to wait 24 hours and then feel good from the sub. It takes a lot of people 2 or 3 days of still being sick before the suboxone really starts to work.
 
Mr.Scagnattie said:
Either way, there is always going to be a degree of suffering, man..that's just how it is.
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This. All I can suggest is that [relative] sobriety after a long habit is amazing even in the acute stages. Having all that junk in your system supresses all the great tastes, smells, memories and sensations sobriety offers. That's what got me through, anyway.
 
Does anyone know if the Gabapentin will stop or ease the w/d symptoms?

I'm confused/concerned. If I'm trying to wait until I'm in w/d before dosing the subs but I'm using the Gabapentin and/or something else to mask the w/d symptoms how will I know? I'm thinking 16-17 hours is enough. Any advice?
 
Gapapentin and other non-opioids can reduce the restlessness, anxiety, insomnia, hypertension and other discomforts associated with withdrawal but will not completely mask the symptoms obscuring signs that it's safe to take buprenorphine. Your pupils will still dilate, you'll still have diarrhea and many other symptoms.

16-17 hours for most people isn't enough and if you've experienced precipitated withdrawals before, I would think you'd rather err on the side of caution and wait 24-36 hours and of course, start slowly with the induction and ease in.

As has been said, a degree of suffering is inevitable and in many ways, useful. Remember that suffering, think about the next time you consider using. So many addicts once they are away from their drugs romanticize them and only think about how good they felt and not how much suffering both their use and their cessation caused.
 
Keeping busy is huge, and it's better to do something away from the house where you keep the subs. If you are just sitting there at home with the suboxone then your brain is going to be going crazy, making you think that you feel worse than you do. If you go out though then your mind will be off of it and the time should pass faster.
 
I was thinking if they're bad enough with 16-17 hours that i'd start with .5. Would .5 put me into Precipitated w/d? And if it does, is that low enough dose that I Can go ahead and just take perks and try again the following day?

Tommyboy, I think you're 100% right about keeping busy, but unfortunately i AM PHYSICALLY stuck in my house. I did have back surgery and am not allowed to drive for another week. My pain is gone, so I'm safe there, but I can't leave the house.

Anyone have any other suggestions?
 
Perhaps buy a disposable piss-testing kit, taking sub only when you get a negative?

Course, you'd be waiting around 3 days, so it's probably terrible advice; I simply took mine when the symptoms had reached a peak, and I was fine.
 
appleguy said:
I was thinking if they're bad enough with 16-17 hours that i'd start with .5. Would .5 put me into Precipitated w/d? And if it does, is that low enough dose that I Can go ahead and just take perks and try again the following day?

Tommyboy, I think you're 100% right about keeping busy, but unfortunately i AM PHYSICALLY stuck in my house. I did have back surgery and am not allowed to drive for another week. My pain is gone, so I'm safe there, but I can't leave the house.

Anyone have any other suggestions?
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You know your own body and what your levels of withdrawal are. Take the sub when your sick enough, whenever that is. If it happens after 16 or 17 hours fine. It's that way for a lot of people.. others have to wait much longer. Starting with low doses like .5mg's is always a good idea anyway though. The slower you build up the bupe in your system, the smoother the transition will go and the better the chance of avoiding PW's.
 
Mr.Scagnattie said:
You know your own body and what your levels of withdrawal are. Take the sub when your sick enough, whenever that is. If it happens after 16 or 17 hours fine. It's that way for a lot of people.. others have to wait much longer. Starting with low doses like .5mg's is always a good idea anyway though. The slower you build up the bupe in your system, the smoother the transition will go and the better the chance of avoiding PW's.
Click to expand...

Thanks. Good advice. The bad part is that I'm a SUPER planner and have good income. The only times I go through w/d is either when I wake up (and that's only for a short time) or when I have done this in the past. I swore I was done before, but the pain this time was so bad that I HAD to go back...needed surgery etc.. I made the mistake of going above and beyond what was prescribed. Now I'm here.

So Mr.Scagnattie or anyone who may know....If I start when I think I'm in enough w/d I have two questions.

1. I start with .5MG and as long as it goes well I'll do another .5 every 45-60 minutes but for how long? Up to 4mg?
2. If i start with .5MG and it seems to be sending me into Precipitated w/d then what do i do? Do I bag it...jump back on the perks and try again in a few days? Or do I ride out the PWD's for several hours and then try again? Help?
 
And I'm committed to finishing here. My back is fixed. My issues should be gone...at least for 5-10 years. That is the only thing that kept sucking me back in. I go to aa meetings and I will be more active in my sobriety than ever before. I know what I need to do to make sure this never happens again....I'm just dying to get past the first day and safely on subs. The feeling on the 2nd/3rd/4th day are HEAVEN! Having my life, memory, mind, and SELF back is so exciting. I can't wait.
 
Can someone tell me what the best drug to use to calm the W/D symptoms is?
Valium?
Baclofen?
Klonopin?

I'm planning on stopping tonight. Any help and support would be greatly appreciated.
 
appleguy said:
Can someone tell me what the best drug to use to calm the W/D symptoms is?
Valium?
Baclofen?
Klonopin?

I'm planning on stopping tonight. Any help and support would be greatly appreciated.
Click to expand...

Any benzo helps but the ones with longer half-lives like valium are the best in my experience.
 
appleguy said:
Thanks. Good advice. The bad part is that I'm a SUPER planner and have good income. The only times I go through w/d is either when I wake up (and that's only for a short time) or when I have done this in the past. I swore I was done before, but the pain this time was so bad that I HAD to go back...needed surgery etc.. I made the mistake of going above and beyond what was prescribed. Now I'm here.

So Mr.Scagnattie or anyone who may know....If I start when I think I'm in enough w/d I have two questions.

1. I start with .5MG and as long as it goes well I'll do another .5 every 45-60 minutes but for how long? Up to 4mg?
2. If i start with .5MG and it seems to be sending me into Precipitated w/d then what do i do? Do I bag it...jump back on the perks and try again in a few days? Or do I ride out the PWD's for several hours and then try again? Help?
Click to expand...

I am very similar to you. Great income so my DOC (oxy)is super available. But I quoted you because I have the same question as your #2.

Whiat do you do if you go into Precipitated w/d what can you do to get out of it? And by starting sub with a very low dose like .25 can that be used as a tester to see if it's too early?
 
Not Again said:
I am very similar to you. Great income so my DOC (oxy)is super available. But I quoted you because I have the same question as your #2.

Whiat do you do if you go into Precipitated w/d what can you do to get out of it? And by starting sub with a very low dose like .25 can that be used as a tester to see if it's too early?
Click to expand...

If you go into PW's, the most important thing it to stop taking any suboxone. Taking more will just make it worse. You have to ride it out and wait for it to end then try inducting again by waiting until you are in full withdrawal.

Also, yes taking a very small dose like .25mg's is a good way to help avoid PW's by building up the bupe slowly in your system.
 
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