• 💊 OTHER DRUGS 💊 Welcome Guest
    Posting Rules Bluelight Rules
    Notable Threads 1 Notable Threads 2
    Dangerous Combos Addiction Support
    Emergency Services Benzo Guide v.1
    Addiction Stories Scary Case Studies
    Biology, Pharmacology & Drugs 101
  • Select Your Topic Then Scroll Down
    Alcohol Bupe Benzos
    Cocaine Heroin Opioids
    RCs Stimulants Misc
    Harm Reduction All Topics Gabapentinoids
    Tired of your habit? Struggling to cope?
    Want to regain control or get sober?
    Visit our Recovery Support Forums

Heroin How dyou deal with PAWS when you don't have meds around?

Pagey

Pagey

Bluelight Crew
Joined
Apr 11, 2012
Messages
9,460
Right so I really need any kind of advice really on how to deal with heroin PAWS. I haven't taken any kind of opiate in 11-12 days (something like that) and I'm going insane. I'm having a good 5-6 panic attacks a day minimum, ridiculous mood swings, I haven't slept in about 3 days...and starting next monday I'll be working from 9 to 7 every day so I need to be in better shape.
I never get anxious like this, I don't know how to deal with panic attacks etc. so I'm really not handling it well. I'm determined to do this right and not cave in but I'm not sure determination is gonna be enough if I don't find a way to make it easier.
I've been using OTC sleeping meds but that's not been doing anything...I've also got an appointment with my GP tomorrow and I'm hoping to get benzos (fingers crossed), but that probably isn't going to happen so I was just wondering how everyone else dealt with PAWS. Any easy non-drug related remedies? I'd really like to avoid getting drugs illegaly since it would do me good to stay away from all that for a while.

Thanks :)
 
For me ive realized my anxieties are so easily controlled if i just stop and take some deep breaths while asking myself "whats really stressing you out" .Im not dealing with paws so much these days so much as stimulant related anxiety; but it always helped me to just rethink stuff when id get that unbearable feeling. when you feel your chest tighten just try to take deep breaths and realize you are going to be ok. if something/someone brings the feelings up just try to focus on something that will make you happy.

Benzos will definitely help but i think that you can do it if you try without! its all in your head just dont forget that. it sounds like you really want this, and youre doing great so just keep that in mind:)
 
I don't have much trouble with PAWS from heroin. It's nothing compared to the acute withdrawal syndrome and I'm usually so happy that's over with, that the PAWS hardly bothers me.
 
pagey hang in there, things will get better!! to speed this process up you have to occupy yourself,be a busy rat*. find good friends who dont do hard drugs, pick up new hobbies. shit even just walking around the block is better than sitting in home fucking thinking about heroin! being stuck in my head in PAWS is awful, prbly the reason why i relapsed, you have t get out of yourself.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22157144
One of the most menacing consequences of drug addiction is the devaluation of natural rewards (e.g. food, sex, work, money, caring for one's offspring). However, evidence also suggests that natural rewards, such as an enriched environment, can devalue drugs of abuse. Thus, this study used a rodent model to test whether exposure to an enriched environment could protect adult rats from acquiring cocaine self-administration and from the resultant drug-induced devaluation of a natural saccharin reward cue. Adult male Sprague-Dawley rats were implanted with intravenous jugular catheters. Rats were then separated into two housing conditions: an enriched condition, including social companions(four/cage) and novel objects (e.g. balls, polyethylene tubes, paper, etc.), and a nonenriched condition where the rats were singly housed with no novel objects. During testing, the rats were given 5-min access to 0.15% saccharin, followed by 1 h to self-administer saline or cocaine (0.167 mg/infusion) on fixed ratio and progressive ratio schedules of reinforcement. The results showed that rats that were singly housed in the nonenriched environment fell into two groups: low drug-takers (n=34) and high drug-takers (n=12). In comparison, only one out of the 22 rats housed in the enriched environment was a high drug-taker. Thus, all rats in the enriched environment, except one, behaved like low drug-takers under the nonenriched condition. As such, these rats self-administered almost no drug on either the fixed ratio or the progressive ratio schedule of reinforcement and were extremely slow to self-administer their first cocaine infusion. Interestingly, despite their very low levels of drug self-administration, low-drug-taking rats housed in the enriched environment continued to avoid intake of the drug-associated saccharin cue. Taken together, these data suggest that the enriched environment itself served as a salient natural reward that reduced cocaine seeking and cocaine taking, but had little impact on avoidance of the cocaine-paired taste cue. The protective effects of the enriched environment were robust and, as such, have important implications for the methods used in the study of drug addiction in animal models and for the prevention, and possibly the treatment, of the disease in adult humans.
Click to expand...

start exercising, just 15mins a day will you do, and by 15mins i mean having your heartrate up to 130-150bpm. start eating healthy and idk about you, but i love to cook. cooking bomb ass meals always makes me happy, i dont necesarily eat super healthy, i just try to include alot of fruits, vegies, protein (espeically agter i work out), ect.. to get more vitamins and because when i eat good, i feel good. when i eat fried and fatty foods i feel like shit. finally, spicy foods are good because they increase endorphins that agonism mu receptors!!!

start meditation and yoga, go to counseling, ect... you need to do more stuff than just take medicine is my main point. the meds will help you get through it and make it TOLERABLE to do with yourself in PAWS.

here are some medications that will be easily prescribed and most importantly, have low chanes f dependency IMO/IME. some people have WD from lyrica and gabapentin, but it is no where near as bad as the WD for benzos/alcohol:

definitely get hydroxyzine. atarax is an awesome med to have in your tool box, it helps with nausea and i find it does help with anxiety to an extent. it also helps me sleep by inducing the time it takes me to fall asleep.

gabapentin/lyrca - these meds are a lifesavr!! seriously they help with WD symptoms . they dont need any explanation they are that good. gabapentin is literally handed out like candy and will do the trick although it is not as good as lyrica

wellbutrin - personally i dont like this medication as i reposnd much better to dextroamphetamie. this is one o the best AD though, the only one worth trying IME. this one isnt a must though, try it if you want

modafinil/nuvigil - better than wellbutrin, still not good as d-amp

clonidine - helps with anxiety and sleep, lowers BP, is amazing for public and social anxietie

marijuana - if you are a pot head, there is nothing wrong with smoking!!! if anyone tells you otherwise, how could smoking weed be worse than doing heroin?? end of story kthnxbai lol

oxazepam/clorazepate - these aare the least abusable benzozis because of their unique pharmacology



some of the best meds can be getting without a doctor. kratom, phenibut, kava, ect..
 
Last edited:
Hi Pagey:)

The last time I got off opiates, and stayed off for over a year, exercise was the single biggest contributor to my recovery. It was very, very hard in the beginning to get started, but as you say you are determined and also need to be in better shape for upcoming work, it could work for you too.

When I was through the main acute phase of withdrawal and was able to stand up and move slowly around (without puking or needing to rush to the bathroom), I started an exercise regime which was based on nothing but the desire to get myself out of the misery I felt.

Through sheer grit and determination, I forced myself to do basically anything that got me breathing hard. Try squats. You can do them at home, with minimal space required, and they're really fucking hard work if you haven't been moving around much! Push ups are good too.

It worked on two levels: firstly it took me out of my lethargic state of misery (cuz it's pretty hard to be miserable, or anything else really, when you are working your body intensively) for a while, and secondly it got me back to sleeping at night quite quickly. While it was horrible and just grit and determination that got me through the first two or three days, fairly soon I actually started feeling good after the exercise.

So, there's something to consider. Not a quick fix (pun not intended) by any means, but it's natural and it WORKS!
 
+1 on exercise and being occupied. What also helped me was to do things I enjoyed earlier but that got lost in the opioid haze. Like old hobbies.

From what opioid exactly are you withdrawing, Pagey? If it is not Buprenorphine or Methadone your state of mind should get better very soon.
You have 4 more days until work. Try to use these for recovering mentally, do something just for yourself like wellness.

And the work has positive aspects: You will be occupied during the day and naturally more tired so your sleeping schedule gets fixed.

I know how hard it is to learn living sober again but you can do it. Good luck!
 
DynoSpec said:
For me ive realized my anxieties are so easily controlled if i just stop and take some deep breaths while asking myself "whats really stressing you out" .Im not dealing with paws so much these days so much as stimulant related anxiety; but it always helped me to just rethink stuff when id get that unbearable feeling. when you feel your chest tighten just try to take deep breaths and realize you are going to be ok. if something/someone brings the feelings up just try to focus on something that will make you happy.

Benzos will definitely help but i think that you can do it if you try without! its all in your head just dont forget that. it sounds like you really want this, and youre doing great so just keep that in mind:)
Click to expand...

Yeah that's a good point - whenever the panic hits I tend to just go with it rather than try and decompose the reasons, calm down and focus on them one by one. I'll definitely try to do that next time. It's weird how it tends to just creep up at completely random moments though, and then all of a sudden everything seems to take on unbearable proportions...also this might sound a bit dumb but I'm finding that all the extra time I've suddenly got on my hands is making things worse because it's just time to think about reasons to stress out hahah. Anyway thank you!

burn out said:
I don't have much trouble with PAWS from heroin. It's nothing compared to the acute withdrawal syndrome and I'm usually so happy that's over with, that the PAWS hardly bothers me.
Click to expand...

Ah well, lucky. I really don't find the first few days and the physical illness so bad but the psychological stuff really gets to me. I've never gone without opiates for this long before and I'm realising it just seems to get worse every day :\

laCster said:
pagey hang in there, things will get better!! to speed this process up you have to occupy yourself,be a busy rat*. find good friends who dont do hard drugs, pick up new hobbies. shit even just walking around the block is better than sitting in home fucking thinking about heroin! being stuck in my head in PAWS is awful, prbly the reason why i relapsed, you have t get out of yourself.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22157144


start exercising, just 15mins a day will you do, and by 15mins i mean having your heartrate up to 130-150bpm. start eating healthy and idk about you, but i love to cook. cooking bomb ass meals always makes me happy, i dont necesarily eat super healthy, i just try to include alot of fruits, vegies, protein (espeically agter i work out), ect.. to get more vitamins and because when i eat good, i feel good. when i eat fried and fatty foods i feel like shit. finally, spicy foods are good because they increase endorphins that agonism mu receptors!!!

start meditation and yoga, go to counseling, ect... you need to do more stuff than just take medicine is my main point. the meds will help you get through it and make it TOLERABLE to do with yourself in PAWS.

here are some medications that will be easily prescribed and most importantly, have low chanes f dependency IMO/IME. some people have WD from lyrica and gabapentin, but it is no where near as bad as the WD for benzos/alcohol:

definitely get hydroxyzine. atarax is an awesome med to have in your tool box, it helps with nausea and i find it does help with anxiety to an extent. it also helps me sleep by inducing the time it takes me to fall asleep.

gabapentin/lyrca - these meds are a lifesavr!! seriously they help with WD symptoms . they dont need any explanation they are that good. gabapentin is literally handed out like candy and will do the trick although it is not as good as lyrica

wellbutrin - personally i dont like this medication as i reposnd much better to dextroamphetamie. this is one o the best AD though, the only one worth trying IME. this one isnt a must though, try it if you want

modafinil/nuvigil - better than wellbutrin, still not good as d-amp

clonidine - helps with anxiety and sleep, lowers BP, is amazing for public and social anxietie

marijuana - if you are a pot head, there is nothing wrong with smoking!!! if anyone tells you otherwise, how could smoking weed be worse than doing heroin?? end of story kthnxbai lol

oxazepam/clorazepate - these aare the least abusable benzozis because of their unique pharmacology



some of the best meds can be getting without a doctor. kratom, phenibut, kava, ect..
Click to expand...

That was extremely helpful, thanks! I'm doing my best to keep myself busy but it's so fucking hard to find any kind of motivation for anything...good thing about this new job next week is that it'll keep me occupied all day so I won't have time to think about h and stuff. I hope that'll really help. But anyway those are good ideas (particularly the cooking...would do me good to start eating again) and I'll definitely try and follow through :)

Halif said:
Hi Pagey:)

The last time I got off opiates, and stayed off for over a year, exercise was the single biggest contributor to my recovery. It was very, very hard in the beginning to get started, but as you say you are determined and also need to be in better shape for upcoming work, it could work for you too.

When I was through the main acute phase of withdrawal and was able to stand up and move slowly around (without puking or needing to rush to the bathroom), I started an exercise regime which was based on nothing but the desire to get myself out of the misery I felt.

Through sheer grit and determination, I forced myself to do basically anything that got me breathing hard. Try squats. You can do them at home, with minimal space required, and they're really fucking hard work if you haven't been moving around much! Push ups are good too.

It worked on two levels: firstly it took me out of my lethargic state of misery (cuz it's pretty hard to be miserable, or anything else really, when you are working your body intensively) for a while, and secondly it got me back to sleeping at night quite quickly. While it was horrible and just grit and determination that got me through the first two or three days, fairly soon I actually started feeling good after the exercise.

So, there's something to consider. Not a quick fix (pun not intended) by any means, but it's natural and it WORKS!
Click to expand...

Great thanks. I've been hearing this about exercise but hadn't really had anyone tell me it was actually effective so I've been putting it off...well as you said, even just one push-up sounds like absolute torture right now :| but I'll definitely take your word for it and get started. At least it'll be something productive.

DickTate said:
+1 on exercise and being occupied. What also helped me was to do things I enjoyed earlier but that got lost in the opioid haze. Like old hobbies.

From what opioid exactly are you withdrawing, Pagey? If it is not Buprenorphine or Methadone your state of mind should get better very soon.
You have 4 more days until work. Try to use these for recovering mentally, do something just for yourself like wellness.

And the work has positive aspects: You will be occupied during the day and naturally more tired so your sleeping schedule gets fixed.

I know how hard it is to learn living sober again but you can do it. Good luck!
Click to expand...

I'm coming off heroin & oxycodone, so luckily no maintenance to drag the whole thing out. I'm glad to hear it should be over soon though, because I honestly never expected anything like this so I hadn't really prepared myself for it...anyway I guess I've been through the worse already so yeah, I'll just take all you guys' advice and hope it gets better soon. Thanks so much!
 
As Halif said, exercise is key and if you put in a grueling exercise the benefit will far, far exceed the cost of the effort. It's often quite hard to get motivated to interrupt our self loathing, but try it at least once. Take a bike ride of a seemingly challenging distance (straight outta opiates for me that would probably be 1 mile) at a moderate pace and everytime you think you're about to start walking just keep pushing and increase the intensity. What will happen then is you will feel an entirely new plateau of energy emerge until it eventually goes back into exhaustion, push through again even harder. You'll get energy level plateaus in any exercise but biking is an easier one. Those bursts of energy are your neurotransmitters being reorganized and multiplied. And when you feel the burn in your legs and begin sweating, just know that this is the heroin being excreted through your pores. Your muscles have a loottttt of lactic acid to flush out and it can actually feel euphoric once you finally plop down to relax.

You gotta understand that the normal rush people get from exercise is multiplied so many times for people in your situation of getting off dope. Your appetite will improve and liken to healthier foods, you will sleep much better, and mentally you will be much more content.

I would also suggest supplementing with Multi Vitamin, Folic Acid, Thiamine (B1), and L-Tyrosine at the very least, drinking more water than normal and eating real food. Also, i highly suggest you stop with the sleeping meds, this will result in more energy and motivation, less bodily discomfort throughout the day especially in the legs, and
 
Last edited:
Ugh, I feel your pain. Coming off this shit is a real bitch and sometimes it feels like you're going to loose your mind.

I just try and calm myself down, talk to myself in the mirror if I have to. That, and stay as busy as I can. The more time I have to just sit around and think about how shitty I feel or how long it's going to last, the more I freak out.
 
Weed and benzos are the only thing have ever helped me with paws. I also find Adderal or ritalin helpful for the deppression and lethargy. But overall time is the only thing that will fix it
 
Order some Kratom....exercise (cardio) and make sure to sweat hard...benedryl maybe?
 
free time is a stress builder especually if you mull on the shit that gets you down, try to find a hobby you enjoy or a book you love.(might not be your taste at all but the game of thrones series is an amazing read) If i stay unoccupied too long it isnt a good thing especially if theres no one around to just vent to sometimes. you could look into gaba precursors to maybe get a bit of a normal feeling going.
 
If your going to a doctor, get benzos for the panic attacks or if not, ask for clonidine, stuff is actually amazing lowering BP, thus lowering anxiety. Lots but not too much diphenhydrinate cuz you feel worse. Cannabis is a must. Kratom can also work wonders like once or twice. Zopiclone is good, I'd imagine other Z-drugs as well.

In my opinion, ketamine is actually the miracle opiate wd drug without getting a fix, I'd also imagine other heavy NMDA-antagonists are just as effective. Ketamine basically kills all the physical withdrawal symptoms for the duration, maybe 2 hours if your lucky. Mentally, you don't feel good but instead of wanting to kill yourself you just feel bad. If I had enough K, I would be able to quit an H cold turkey. The only problems are obvious, the very short duration, the lack of availablity or prices in some areas, and it's not easy sniffing/shooting/whatever ketamine every 2 hours for a week unless your a complete k-tard.
 
I get awful anxiety when I'm kicking as well, it really is just soul crushing at times my therapist told me to stop fighting it, just let it come on and focus on the physical symptoms. Don't get. Wrapped up in your head during a panic attack, but instead just acknowledge what your body is going through. Like, my heart is beating really fast, it's hard to breathe, there's afeeling of impending doom...but nothing bad is happening to me. This is just the opiates, and there's nothing actually wrong. Keeping a sense of mindfullness can be very helpful during anxiety. I found that if I just let it come on and reminded myself none of these physical symptoms would kill me, eventually the panic became infinitely more bearable. But the anxiety/panic disappeared around amonth or two for me.

Like everyone has said, keeping busy is important. Even if you don't feel like going out, read a book or watch a movie, but stay engaged with it the whole time. If you're watching tv whilst thinking about in, it won't help. But if ou stay in the moment and actually watch the program it can keep your mind occupied

However, I did have an issue my first month or two of sobriety.....I was trying so hard to keep myself busy that I wasn't taking an "me" time. I wasn't getting enough sleep, eating enough, or taking time to wind down. Part of this is because eventually that desire to do things other than drugs does. Come back, with a vengence, and it feels so good to wantt o do something that you just do it. But remember to give yourself time for rest, healthy meals, and rest and relaxation.
 
Girl I so feel for you. PAWS is the worst! The first few times I went through WDs from opiates/opioids I kept telling myself once the physical part (1st week or so) that I would be ok and that is what got me to hang in there (unlike you said, the initial WDs are so effing painful to me I want to die sometimes). But once I experienced PAWs a few times I realized that the 1st week or so was only just the beginning.

Unlike what you stated, rather than panic attacks being my main foe, I experience overwhelming depression along with some anxiety. I have absolutely no motivation, no energy, no way to pull myself up to even perform day to day stuff. The lethargy is almost unbearable. I do what I have to do for my kids (feed, bathe, supervise) because I couldn't live with myself otherwise and I be damned if I will cause them to suffer because of my bad choices but more than that is pretty much out of the question. I really can't force myself to eat, hardly shower etc.

I also have legit medical problems that without some type of opiate I have enough pain and physical disability that exercise (other than walking and even that is difficult) is pretty difficult. I have over past 10 years went off meds few times just to make sure my pain level and all wasn't just jacked up from being on drugs so long...but physically I am in worse shape as time progresses.

So hon I can only offer you my sincere sympathy. You are pretty young (I think if I recall correctly) and hopefully if you are in pretty good shape physically the exercise and staying busy will help for you. Will keep you in my thoughts and give you a lil mental 'you go girl' from here! I'm proud for you that you made it this far. Out of curiousity, is this plan to be long term? Staying away from opiates that is?


DickTate said:
...From what opioid exactly are you withdrawing, Pagey? If it is not Buprenorphine or Methadone your state of mind should get better very soon....
Click to expand...

Just wondering about what you said to Pagey about the methadone or bupe...would it be longer (PAWS) simply because they are longer acting/longer half life drugs or is there some other reason?

Not to hi jack your thread girl, but if anyone has some additional advice for my comments/situation please speak out, would be much appreciated!
 
Congrats, pagey. I'm 4 days out from a quick bupe taper. It sucks, but just hang on. We will get there!!!
 
Unfortunately I'm quite experienced with this, I've had many dire/unrelenting WDs especially the time I CT off high dose of MMT, another time roxys. Exercise as much as you can,it has a holistic effect that until you start improving you have no idea how much of an impact it makes: Improved sleep, less anxiety, improved mood, higher self-esteem, get your appetite back. 2nd Clonodine. A llifesaver it helps lower your blood pressure and takes away the feeling that your heart is going to pop out of your chest, it helps regulate body temperature, decreased sweating and less chills. 3rd. Hot fucking showers, 2 or 3 times a day. Relieves muscle tension, helps with fatigue and spasms. Also better to be WD in bed nice & clean. 4th. Find ONE special person that doesn't judge you who will run crucial errands run, like going and getting you Imodium, sanitizing your sheets when you have an accident because it will happen, washing your underwear..getting you fluids (constantly sipping on liquids makes a world of difference, I know for a fact because one time I ended up in the emergency room and before they even gave me a medication for my symptoms they put me on a IV and I immediately felt a drastic change). 5 Multi-Vitamin you're probably not eating much, possibly throwing up and not meeting your nutritional requirements, Your body will function so much more efficiently once reaching these nutritional guidelines. 6. Sleeping medication- strongest you can obtain the better, the more you sleep the better-pretty simple. Your body does most of its hard-core recovering while sleeping, and sleeping helps aid your overloaded immune system. 8. Movies that make you laugh and music that improve your morale. Anything that makes time pass is priceless. 9. Promethazine for naseau, will help sedate you (help with insomnia/anxiety) and if vomiting-will help keep your food down. 10. Possible develop a routine, you would be surprised at how much it helps to have some structure and something to measure your progress against. Other random things: a robe, thick socks, pay your bills ahead of time, aspirin, B-Complex vitamins, quality pillow, someone to communicate with. A positive mind frame going into it, and EDUCATION of what you will face, realistic expectations. If you know that B will happen if you do A, and understanding the science of this you will be that much more proficient about getting through this.
 
Last edited:
Just be careful with promethazine...a lot of anti histamine type drugs can actually make your uncontrollable leg (and arm) movements worse. You know that feeling, you can't hold your legs still. To me this is one of the worse symptoms if you are in actual physical WDs still..cause absolutely nothing will make me sleep while that leg thing is going on.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top