Opioids The Kratom Mega Thread v3

1st time user of Kratom, as of last night dosed 10 caps at 10x and then nothing after an hr n 30 mins so re-dosed a stronger X's

11, 15x Maeng Da effects much stronger and longer, couldnt fall sleep felt to good n speedy.

Wake up tired but till abit rested

Next day trying 2 tbsp of yerba mate tea and 10, 15x caps of Maeng Da

to add a blend of extra energy with my kratom.

and the waiting game begins.

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later being the time now, id say this mixture was made for each other.

feeling like a perfect dose of ketmine and cocaine right now.

very impressed

WalkOnThruTheRain said:

Come on guys, stop talking about kratom and help this guy with his lactation and vagina formation symptoms he thinks is from taking opiates...not like this is a kratom thread. At lwest i acknowledged. TBH u should prob see a doctor

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Your ignorance is astounding. I really dont understand why you think attempting to make fun of me for asking a question that quite frankly a lot of people on bluelight who use kratom regularly may be asking. It has nothing to do with vaginas, are you 13 years old? The nerve... Anyway thanks everyone else who actually answered and I will say, kratom seems like it has something which mediates tolerance somehow ( proposed NMDA antagonism? ) , but perhaps it is lost in the extracts and thats why tolerance rises so much quicker and dramatically compared to plain leaf.

Hiltoniano said:

Your ignorance is astounding. I really dont understand why you think attempting to make fun of me for asking a question that quite frankly a lot of people on bluelight who use kratom regularly may be asking. It has nothing to do with vaginas, are you 13 years old? The nerve... Anyway thanks everyone else who actually answered and I will say, kratom seems like it has something which mediates tolerance somehow ( proposed NMDA antagonism? ) , but perhaps it is lost in the extracts and thats why tolerance rises so much quicker and dramatically compared to plain leaf.

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Yeah that was pretty un-called for. As for the tolerance thing, Kratom has both mu agonists AND antagonists
so I think that's why the tolerance stays pretty much the same. Extracts raise tolerance quickly because their well... extracts. Most extracts also only use mitragynine and 7-HO-mitragynine and at very high concentrations so you basically bombard your receptors with nothing but the 'goodies' although I find these types of extracts lacking the magic that is a full alkoloid profile. Only good extract IMO is UEI and that shit skyrockets tolerance and is pretty expensive dose for dose therefore I would reccomend sticking to plain leaf, after heavy abuse of extracts plain leaf will become pretty ineffective.

My small shipment of bali kratom arrived yesterday, to my surprise. I jumped right in there and took a 7.5g dose, but realized I'll run out too quickly if I do that. So this morning I decided to try 5g and the effects are comparable, if not a bit better, today. Based on my limited experience, I have to agree with other posters who've made this same observation.

Question: If I take 20mg of hydrocodone today, while under the effects of kratom or after, will it be a waste? I wonder if I should wait until it's out of my system, or at least until tomorrow?

Back on the Kratom band wagon this time to try Xscape 100x pop two about 45 mins ago.

I know what most of you might say that the higher X's are prb lies and bs will that may be true but ive had luck with the other 2 brands da pimp bomb and some lower x10 both were nice so lets hope theses 100x treat me the same :D

Cpl of questions here.

Been researching this for a while as a perhaps safer alternative to things Ive tried in the past- stim/rcs etc.

1st and most importantly do you guys think this one CAN be used responsibly on and off like say ppl use MDMA- not that they have the same effects just the usage frequency? Maybe this is a poor sample group to ask cos most of y'all seem to be grizzled x heroin/opiate addicts so ofc you're gonna say 'no way dude you'll get hooked i did!' where maybe that was youre particular predisposition. Now ofc I don't want to be foolhardy and say 'bah those fools that would never happen to ME!' hence why I ask.

From my own experience I've tried a range purportedly addictive things in the past like mdpv crack speed etc and and each time, while the high has been enticing at times once it wore of the after effects always warded me off wanting to take them all the time. I just wonder if this is the same and I ask so as not to be overconfident and foolhardy in my presumptions. So my question is not whether YOU personally could control yourself if you are indeed addicted but whether you have ever known anyone to take it on occasion and if it is a realistic goal for certain ppl. Maybe speaking of numbers how many ppl do you know who are addicted to it vs use it occasionally- then again that has pitfalls as if you were an addictive type yourself you'd likely gravitate to other ppl of likemind. But anecdotal reports of anyone you've known who have been able to use it on occasion without incident would be useful.

To perhaps further illuminate on a scale of 1-10 how additive is this? compared to speed, cocaine, mephedrone, mdpv, weed, alcohol? where would you put each on the scale and also where would you put kratom in between them so I can get an idea of its potential addictive qualities vs other substances Ive tried as comparing it to other opiates is worthless for me since I havent done them before except codeine once or twice and i cant remember what it was like really.

Also in terms of the stimulant side. Ive always been fond of my dopamine highs and was intrigued by ppl saying its like a hit of speed at first but cleaner. Is this also true of the confidence boost and socially outgoing qualities of it? Im wondering if a small dose would be good for picking up chicks like amps/coke are absolute king for doing? I like the idea that kratom is an 'all in one' kind of deal in that with stims you HAVE TO have some kind of downer to stave off the comedown but with this it seemed like a convenient all in one up, down package. Thats not the main reason I'd want to do it but just a side bonus if it were true.

Another thing, I was concerned by this issue of stomach troubles due to poor hygiene from the 3rd world worker picking the stuff. Would throwing the material into boiling water and letting it cool then after draining and keeping the water and tossing and washing with it and the material kill the bacteria which may be on there without destroying the active ingredients?

How addicting is it? I mean it's going to be different from person to person but imo it is less addicting than opiates. Although I chose to use it everyday to keep me off other stuff. It's more addicting than weed in the sense that it does have a withdrawal that does suck but is bearable with other non opiate medications.

But I've given some to multiple people and I'd say 90% of them didn't enjoy it as most won't feel anything and continue to take some until they get sick. If you are eating plain leaf, it's not a really powerful drug and won't blow your socks off by any means. I think people expect more from plain leaf than it has to offer which makes it seem shitty. I can take 3-5gs and feel euphoric.

The best part of plain leaf kratom is tolerance is very forgiving, my tolerance has been pretty much the same for a year now and I can eat a lot one day and not so much the next and still have good effects.

As for the nausea, I never get stomach troubles with it. Although many do for whatever reason. I would be willing to bet making tea would eliminate any factors that might contribute to stomach pains.

I am very experienced with Ethnobotanicals. I find Kratom is less addictive than Marijuana and it is a lot better of a herbal high compared to weed.
I found it reduces your cravings to Alcohol. For example I take an Extract one night it helps me sleep, I use it for insomnia and I find I am consuming no Alcohol for the next 7-10 days.

I can compare Kratom to Vicodin. I find Vicodin a lot more of a drugged up feeling and a stronger more opiod like high. Kratom has Opiod qualities that is true but its in the Rubiaceae Plant family meaning it Truly is in the same Family as the coffee plant. The Come up on Kratom is More Euphoric, Stimulating and very smooth at times better than Cocaine because its stimulating( but has a mild nonexistent crash and quality of coke is getting worse) it relieves fatigue Mentally and Physically you feel a feeling of "cleanerness" Mentally and you feel really good. But your quite functional It doesn't cause much nausea, none at all to me in proper dosages whilst Hydrocodone at 20mg I get a bit of Nausea. And hydrocodone is a drugged up feeling I can't stand on my feet and shit and I couldn't feel functional. But on Kratom initially your quite stimulated you feel a bit of Empathy its nice at the clubs cause your up to socialize and meet up with people and you feel the empathy a bit. It is stimulating and better than caffeine at that and a very clear stimulation, Euphoric but not mind blowing Euphoria. The stimulation starts to fade and later on you feel a slight Nod, I find Kratom puts me to sleep. The Body high can be quite nice on Kratom, your muscles and joints tingle. But when Compared to Vicodin, Hydrocodone it is milder because yea you feel good stimulated but your clear functional and like your not drugged up, On high doages of Kratom people probably cant even tell your on something but with Vicodin they can . It has nice anxiolytic and Antidepressant effects.

So less addictive than things like coke, mdpv, mephedrone or on par? If less thats great but if on par I just saw those things like treats like I just had half a cake I like it but I dont want it every day as I know its not good for me. I would prefer something less racey though and more easy going.

As per the stomach troubles I meant more on the lines of developing stomach ulcers as some ppl were talking about above or somewhere around here that it comes from h pylori bacteria. So the boiling part I meant to be to kill the bacteria before ingestion, plus for peace of mind as I have thoughts of 3rd world working class ppl wiping there asses with their fingers and carrying on merrily picking the leaf for my ingestion. Who knows what other infestations I would be opening myself up to- all manner of worms and who knows what else from a foreign country. tho you guys seem to have bioassayed thoroughly with little incident .

Im not after a super euphoria at all, I want nice gentle pedestrian enjoyment .

liftedgift said:

How addicting is it? I mean it's going to be different from person to person but imo it is less addicting than opiates. Although I chose to use it everyday to keep me off other stuff. It's more addicting than weed in the sense that it does have a withdrawal that does suck but is bearable with other non opiate medications.

But I've given some to multiple people and I'd say 90% of them didn't enjoy it as most won't feel anything and continue to take some until they get sick. If you are eating plain leaf, it's not a really powerful drug and won't blow your socks off by any means. I think people expect more from plain leaf than it has to offer which makes it seem shitty. I can take 3-5gs and feel euphoric.

The best part of plain leaf kratom is tolerance is very forgiving, my tolerance has been pretty much the same for a year now and I can eat a lot one day and not so much the next and still have good effects.

As for the nausea, I never get stomach troubles with it. Although many do for whatever reason. I would be willing to bet making tea would eliminate any factors that might contribute to stomach pains.

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When you say you take kratom one night do you mean one night then not again for several days/weeks or every night? If it's the latter how do you know you're not addicted?

As I mentioned your comparisons to other opiates are lost on me since I havent tried them.

Still appreciated as I got some usefull tidbits from your reply.

aguythatlikessmoke said:

I am very experienced with Ethnobotanicals. I find Kratom is less addictive than Marijuana and it is a lot better of a herbal high compared to weed.
I found it reduces your cravings to Alcohol. For example I take an Extract one night it helps me sleep, I use it for insomnia and I find I am consuming no Alcohol for the next 7-10 days.

I can compare Kratom to Vicodin. I find Vicodin a lot more of a drugged up feeling and a stronger more opiod like high. Kratom has Opiod qualities that is true but its in the Rubiaceae Plant family meaning it Truly is in the same Family as the coffee plant. The Come up on Kratom is More Euphoric, Stimulating and very smooth at times better than Cocaine because its stimulating( but has a mild nonexistent crash and quality of coke is getting worse) it relieves fatigue Mentally and Physically you feel a feeling of "cleanerness" Mentally and you feel really good. But your quite functional It doesn't cause much nausea, none at all to me in proper dosages whilst Hydrocodone at 20mg I get a bit of Nausea. And hydrocodone is a drugged up feeling I can't stand on my feet and shit and I couldn't feel functional. But on Kratom initially your quite stimulated you feel a bit of Empathy its nice at the clubs cause your up to socialize and meet up with people and you feel the empathy a bit. It is stimulating and better than caffeine at that and a very clear stimulation, Euphoric but not mind blowing Euphoria. The stimulation starts to fade and later on you feel a slight Nod, I find Kratom puts me to sleep. The Body high can be quite nice on Kratom, your muscles and joints tingle. But when Compared to Vicodin, Hydrocodone it is milder because yea you feel good stimulated but your clear functional and like your not drugged up, On high doages of Kratom people probably cant even tell your on something but with Vicodin they can . It has nice anxiolytic and Antidepressant effects.

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odjowjdjia said:

When you say you take kratom one night do you mean one night then not again for several days/weeks or every night? If it's the latter how do you know you're not addicted?

As I mentioned your comparisons to other opiates are lost on me since I havent tried them.

Still appreciated as I got some usefull tidbits from your reply.

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I used Kratom last week one day and just one day this week. I find it is less addictive and less damaging to me than weed and I enjoy Kratom more. As the Marijuana high can bring Paranoia and anxiety to some Users and it impairs your memory more and your functionality. It is more of a cloudy high Weed compared to Kratom. As I stated Kratom is a clear high, with a bit of sedation and a dreamy state but it doesn't effect motor skills memory etc like Alcohol. I dont find Kratom particularly addictive. As I said many things depend on it, Especially self control you can use it 2-3 times a month the extract or you can use powdered Kratom a couple of times up 7 times a month you won't have problems with addiction just do it max 1 a week and you'll be fine leave a few days inbetween usage the Hangovers on Kratom are mild and at times if used occasionally you experience a pleasant Afterglow from Kratom . Self Control.

I know I am not addicted because I'm not craving it too much mentally nor physically it hits me once every 2-3 days maybe I Should use Kratom but its not a strong URGE like OMG I have to, its a feeling like If I want to I can use it but I dont have to. I used it in the evening occasionally to help with Sleep and relaxation.

Vicodin, Hydrocodone I have tried and Codeine. Vicodin in higher dosages like for me its a more drugged up feeling, Nausea, Sedation, Memory loss, yea Euphoria but also Stronger Intoxication than Kratom. Kratom depending on the dosages is a mild to moderate intoxicating agent that you can enjoy.

Some food For thought though here in Europe, In my Country I can buy Codeine Cough Syrup OTC no prescription Codeine is OTC>

Thanks for info. Your usage sounds similar to how I'd be interested in using it.

I also hate the effects of weed, the paranoia but even the high i feel mentally disabled for the duration. I love the sound of a clearheaded downer cos all the other downers i tried made me foggy and sluggish.

And also alcohol well we all know what shit that is.

aguythatlikessmoke said:

I used Kratom last week one day and just one day this week. I find it is less addictive and less damaging to me than weed and I enjoy Kratom more. As the Marijuana high can bring Paranoia and anxiety to some Users and it impairs your memory more and your functionality. It is more of a cloudy high Weed compared to Kratom. As I stated Kratom is a clear high, with a bit of sedation and a dreamy state but it doesn't effect motor skills memory etc like Alcohol. I dont find Kratom particularly addictive. As I said many things depend on it, Especially self control you can use it 2-3 times a month the extract or you can use powdered Kratom a couple of times up 7 times a month you won't have problems with addiction just do it max 1 a week and you'll be fine leave a few days inbetween usage the Hangovers on Kratom are mild and at times if used occasionally you experience a pleasant Afterglow from Kratom . Self Control.

I know I am not addicted because I'm not craving it too much mentally nor physically it hits me once every 2-3 days maybe I Should use Kratom but its not a strong URGE like OMG I have to, its a feeling like If I want to I can use it but I dont have to. I used it in the evening occasionally to help with Sleep and relaxation.

Vicodin, Hydrocodone I have tried and Codeine. Vicodin in higher dosages like for me its a more drugged up feeling, Nausea, Sedation, Memory loss, yea Euphoria but also Stronger Intoxication than Kratom. Kratom depending on the dosages is a mild to moderate intoxicating agent that you can enjoy.

Some food For thought though here in Europe, In my Country I can buy Codeine Cough Syrup OTC no prescription Codeine is OTC>

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No I use it everyday, I'm addicted. Been almost 2 years and no stomach/liver issues. It's not bad financially either, I order from a few sources. One being an Indonesian supplier which is the cheapest I can find. I use on average 15-20g a day sometimes a lot less. Not trying to downplay it though, there is a withdrawal but I just feel more comfortable using it everyday than worrying about what day it is and if I can use again.

I've noticed when I'm using phenibut I forget about kratom withdrawals, the only symptom I get is tired legs and runny nose. It is that mild when I take a GABAergic.

I mean tolerance doesn't increase like some drugs, If you are using certain substances every day and you take 2x the amount one night, the next night your maintenance dose or the amount you need to take to fend off withdrawals will increase. With kratom plain leaf this doesn't happen. I can take 30gs one night and be contempt with 10gs the next with no problems.

Now if your talking kratom extracts, like golden reserve/FST/UEI then you might as well be talking about a totally different drug. I would not use extracts more than once a week. Tolerance sky rockets and they are pricey. But they feel way more like an actual opiate than plain leaf.

I really wouldn't worry about kratom addiction too much, if you use 1 or 2 or even 3 times a week I'd say you won't get any physical withdrawal.

liftedgift said:

How addicting is it? I mean it's going to be different from person to person but imo it is less addicting than opiates. Although I chose to use it everyday to keep me off other stuff. It's more addicting than weed in the sense that it does have a withdrawal that does suck but is bearable with other non opiate medications.

But I've given some to multiple people and I'd say 90% of them didn't enjoy it as most won't feel anything and continue to take some until they get sick. If you are eating plain leaf, it's not a really powerful drug and won't blow your socks off by any means. I think people expect more from plain leaf than it has to offer which makes it seem shitty. I can take 3-5gs and feel euphoric.

The best part of plain leaf kratom is tolerance is very forgiving, my tolerance has been pretty much the same for a year now and I can eat a lot one day and not so much the next and still have good effects.

As for the nausea, I never get stomach troubles with it. Although many do for whatever reason. I would be willing to bet making tea would eliminate any factors that might contribute to stomach pains.

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My experience has been the exact opposite. Every person other than one who threw up from the texture has enjoyed it. All of them has previous opiate experience ranging from rare recreation use to former addict. The addict was the only one that had a true taste for it. Before he got locked back up he was going though about 100 grams a week.

I'm a lot like you in that I am relatively opiate-naive and don't enjoy marijuana. I've tried kratom perhaps 10 times, didn't feel anything the first attempts (used a liquid form) but later bought some powdered leaf from a place in California. I take around 8 grams (measured on a digital scale) on an empty stomach and feel effects about 30 minutes later, peaking in an hour or 2 and gradually fading to baseline by hour 4. I think I am finished using it because I become irritable and restless after the initial buzz, which while definitely noticeable isn't as powerful as, say Benzedrex (which is bad for other reasons), or alcohol. The thing that makes me know it's working is a slight ringing in my ears as if I took Vicodin, and I lose focus in the eyes (called the wobbles I've seen). I can't read a book or watch a movie on it as I can't sit still and become too bored. It only works for me on an empty stomach, eating an hour later seems to enhance it, but if you attempt to redose it won't work and will only increase the restlessness. I almost experience nausea at higher doses but not like kava, which was just awful with that. I think that it's better not to do it as I could see that buzz is definelty subtle like an opiate which could be seditious if you aren't aware of it. Also, it's drawing more attention than it should, a kava bar in Florida is being sued for a woman's addiction to a kratom drink served there:
http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/threads/700879-New-Drug-That’s-As-Addictive-As-Heroin-And-Perfectly-Legal

I'd really like to try this but I am shitting myself at the thought of 'physical addiction'. All my drugs of choice in the past have just been psychologically addictive...dopamine stims being my particular groove.

I definitely don't have a track record for being addicted to stuff but this sounds like it could be easy to make a habit of. ie at least with coke it was prohibitively expensive and illegal etc. I don't need outside forces rather than exercising willpower but I am very pessimistic and always thinking of worst case scenarios, but likewise the life of sobriety is also driving me insane; feels like a double bind, fucked either way.

Nowadays I find any sort of comedown intolerable so have had to put stims on the shelf.

It seems that physical addiction is characteristic of downers...nearly all/all of them have it don't they. ghb, phenibut, benzoes, opiates, alcohol. Why is it that downers are physically addictive but uppers arent even the strongest ones? Or is it more a case that all drugs are but you just can't take uppers long enough in a run for them to cause the same levels of physical addiction which downers do?

I seem to have a very paranoid disposition and so even if a downer chills me out for the duration Im on it I worry that each time I take it Id be creeping closer and closer to physical addiction. Is it like having a stim comedown but lasting much much longer? If that is the case then it defeats the object of me wanting to take downers. Ive had benzoes before but I didnt enjoy the feeling, only used them for sleep once or twice after stims so no worry of getting addicted to them. I am scared that if I like kratom each time I take it Ill just be further reinforcing a bad habit and pushing myself closer to dreaded physical addiction. Is this a realistic fear?

It sucks cos Im really gagging for a new drug of choice and the non addictive alternatives I know of really suck shit- kanna- yaaaawn booooring serotonin dump, weed- nono for my already highly strung personality, kava kava- only lasts like 15 minutes and don't really like the 'stoning' effect prefer clear headed highs. Ppl give me the stupid empty phrase that I should get a hobby or go running. I tried that junk it doesnt cut it! don't give me that shit! and dont you dare give me the 'get therapy' line! I'm not paying 100 dollars an hour just to have my ego stroked! thats what a good stimulant is for and does it way better!

odjowjdjia said:

I'd really like to try this but I am shitting myself at the thought of 'physical addiction'. All my drugs of choice in the past have just been psychologically addictive...dopamine stims being my particular groove.

I definitely don't have a track record for being addicted to stuff but this sounds like it could be easy to make a habit of. ie at least with coke it was prohibitively expensive and illegal etc. I don't need outside forces rather than exercising willpower but I am very pessimistic and always thinking of worst case scenarios, but likewise the life of sobriety is also driving me insane; feels like a double bind, fucked either way.

Nowadays I find any sort of comedown intolerable so have had to put stims on the shelf.

It seems that physical addiction is characteristic of downers...nearly all/all of them have it don't they. ghb, phenibut, benzoes, opiates, alcohol. Why is it that downers are physically addictive but uppers arent even the strongest ones? Or is it more a case that all drugs are but you just can't take uppers long enough in a run for them to cause the same levels of physical addiction which downers do?

I seem to have a very paranoid disposition and so even if a downer chills me out for the duration Im on it I worry that each time I take it Id be creeping closer and closer to physical addiction. Is it like having a stim comedown but lasting much much longer? If that is the case then it defeats the object of me wanting to take downers. Ive had benzoes before but I didnt enjoy the feeling, only used them for sleep once or twice after stims so no worry of getting addicted to them. I am scared that if I like kratom each time I take it Ill just be further reinforcing a bad habit and pushing myself closer to dreaded physical addiction. Is this a realistic fear?

It sucks cos Im really gagging for a new drug of choice and the non addictive alternatives I know of really suck shit- kanna- yaaaawn booooring serotonin dump, weed- nono for my already highly strung personality, kava kava- only lasts like 15 minutes and don't really like the 'stoning' effect prefer clear headed highs. Ppl give me the stupid empty phrase that I should get a hobby or go running. I tried that junk it doesnt cut it! don't give me that shit! and dont you dare give me the 'get therapy' line! I'm not paying 100 dollars an hour just to have my ego stroked! thats what a good stimulant is for and does it way better!

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First of all, kava does NOT "suck shit" if you're doing it right which it doesn't sound like you are. Order real root from a good vendor and work through the reverse tolerance and I can guarantee you that you will find the best non-addictive substance (even less psychological dependence than MJ, and literally zero withdrawal of ANY kind).

That being said, Kratom withdrawal is very mild compared to real opioids if used reasonably. I would recommend kava over kratom if you are concerned with withdrawal, and hell, there are even somewhat "upper"-like kava strains (Hawaiian strains, Solomon's Island, CO2 extract, Fijian Waka from certain vendors, among others). If you don't want as much of a sedative effect (if those give you too much "stony" feeling), then try kratom because that will definitely have more of the effect you're after (again, depending on the strain).

cheers. Not to hijack the thread but i cant send pms... how long does kava last for you? cos for the 15 minutes it lasted for me the times i tried it wasnt worth chugging all that junk and even increasing dose/redosing wasnt realistic cos it would make me more and more nauseous.

Ye so worst case scenarios regarding kratom in terms of withdrawal how could you explain them to me if i have no experience of other opiates so i could get a reference point? aches and pains are alright but its the depression i am afraid of cos i already have constant pervasive depression and wanted to use it on and off as an acute anti depressant as an alternative to becoming a 'carreer' pharmaceutical user if i went to the doctors. i have just bad bouts of depression so i dont wanna be taking some chemical shit 24/7 doing who knows what for my long term brain chemistry. i thought kratom could be a natural alternative that would work right away and i could use just when in a deep bout or now and then to keep me upbeat and productive to prevent future bouts- its just a break, some kind of sancrtuary that im after that would alleviate my mental anguish. but if the rebound after cessasion causes bad depression like post mdma mental blitzkrieg that was just so aweful i never want to feel like that again.

Also in terms of avoiding the physical dependency is a good rule of thumb just not to do it while the previous dose is in your system? that would mean a cpl of days for near complete removal right?

I like to play it better safe than sorry so maybe ill try and get something out of kava kava before trying kratom. Also ive figured if i can make something of a non dependence inducing substance i will also have something as a safety net if i decide to try a more addictive substance.

gingerbaker said:

First of all, kava does NOT "suck shit" if you're doing it right which it doesn't sound like you are. Order real root from a good vendor and work through the reverse tolerance and I can guarantee you that you will find the best non-addictive substance (even less psychological dependence than MJ, and literally zero withdrawal of ANY kind).

That being said, Kratom withdrawal is very mild compared to real opioids if used reasonably. I would recommend kava over kratom if you are concerned with withdrawal, and hell, there are even somewhat "upper"-like kava strains (Hawaiian strains, Solomon's Island, CO2 extract, Fijian Waka from certain vendors, among others). If you don't want as much of a sedative effect (if those give you too much "stony" feeling), then try kratom because that will definitely have more of the effect you're after (again, depending on the strain).

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Its good that you are worried about addiction. However if you can use kratom maybe 2 or 3 times a week never consecutive days. I really doubt you would develop a strong physical addiction. It took me about 2 weeks of daily use to feel the physical withdrawal. But for me, dealing with it is better than worrying about what day it is and when I can take some next.

The withdrawal is aches/pains/runny nose/extreme extreme fatigue for me. Absolutely zero motivation to do anything. Any GABAergic takes a lot of it away. So if you did get to the point where you were physically dependent. You could use benzos for 2 days/ then maybe phenibut for 2 days. Or you could just taper.

As I said its good that you are afraid as it does have a withdrawal that is no picnic. But I really think you are overestimating the time and the severity of the withdrawal.

Oh and Kava can help with withdrawals too, there is a thread discussing the best way to take kava. I'm still new to kava as well and find that the best results are with the regular ground root. Extracts seem to only last for 20-30 mins for me. I have done kava multiple times and only one time did I get this overwhelming drunk feeling that I had never gotten before. That was when I would just put the ground root powder in my lip and let it sit there like a pinch of tobacco. There are better ways with making it into drinks and such I just haven't tried yet.

liftedgift said:

Its good that you are worried about addiction. However if you can use kratom maybe 2 or 3 times a week never consecutive days. I really doubt you would develop a strong physical addiction. It took me about 2 weeks of daily use to feel the physical withdrawal. But for me, dealing with it is better than worrying about what day it is and when I can take some next.

The withdrawal is aches/pains/runny nose/extreme extreme fatigue for me. Absolutely zero motivation to do anything. Any GABAergic takes a lot of it away. So if you did get to the point where you were physically dependent. You could use benzos for 2 days/ then maybe phenibut for 2 days. Or you could just taper.

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Have you ever had success with using stems and veins to help taper/combat withdrawal? Also, how much were you using when you had those symptoms and was it extract of leaf?