Opioids The Kratom Mega Thread v3

Oh ROXIanne! said:

Kratom and orange juice ftw. Tossing and washing always hurts my stomach, and the OJ completely masks the taste of kratom.

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I also use OJ. I use I little bit of hot water so the kratom can mix in then fill the rest of the glass with juice and chug it.

Hiltoniano said:

. So quick question, has anyone noticed any of the hormonal changes that occur with taking regular opiates ( decreased testosterone, increased prolactin, etc) from taking kratom semi-regularly? I am curious.

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Can anyone please answer this question...? or acknowlege it? Look we could go on for ages about the best way WE think to consume kratom, it comes down to preference. so can we have some real discussion here about kratom and not just the taste.... thanksss

Hiltoniano said:

Can anyone please answer this question...? or acknowlege it? Look we could go on for ages about the best way WE think to consume kratom, it comes down to preference. so can we have some real discussion here about kratom and not just the taste.... thanksss

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Come on guys, stop talking about kratom and help this guy with his lactation and vagina formation symptoms he thinks is from taking opiates...not like this is a kratom thread. At lwest i acknowledged. TBH u should prob see a doctor

Hiltoniano said:

Can anyone please answer this question...? or acknowlege it? Look we could go on for ages about the best way WE think to consume kratom, it comes down to preference. so can we have some real discussion here about kratom and not just the taste.... thanksss

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I noticed a decrease in testosterone/sex drive while consuming kratom on a daily basis just like I would on any other opiate. I only used sedating strains for my maintenence, I would suspect that the more stimulating strains would have less of an effect on testosterone.

Opiates are notorious for killing peoples sex drive and kratom is no exception. My sex drive has tumbled since becoming an addict. I can still get hard just fine, only the desire has been decreased. When im in withdrawal I can achieve orgasm like 6 times in an hour with no problem lol... talk about two pump chump. As far as increased prolactin I doubt it, if it were true I'd have enoigh breast milk to feed all the babies in my neighborhood.

Does kratom risk opening the gates of valhalla to opiate addiction?

Does kratom risk opening the gates of valhalla to opiate addiction?

The purported effects of Kratom seem like just what I was looking for- something mild and easy to de-stress but the addiciton potential worries me.

What worries me is that conditioning the mind to gain pleasure from an opiate like substance reinforces it to enjoy the opiate high, ie refining ones sensibilities towards rather than being in an ignorance is bliss kind of state. Would this not act like a true gateway drug in the sense of becoming more curious about other opiates once you got a 'taste for the high'? Of course you cant predict with certainty what will happen to a particular person but just interested to hear what some ppl who have experience with it think.

Im certainly not the type to go crazy with substances. I have tried my share of what ppl call addictive things in the past such as amps, mdpv, coke (i did get a bit of a binge period with this for 4 months or so but when I was about to fail university I knocked it off immediately), crack and each time thought they are more trouble than they are worth and not got carried away with them.

I also tried codeine a cpl times and didn't like it really the constipation it gave after. Also the risk of easy overdose shunned me from it.

I have just been looking for something mild to unwind from the vicissitudes of everyday life. Ive looked into the other common ones and non have suited me. Alcohol being the mainstream goto I find grotesque- hate the effect, weed same story and it destroy my mental acuity. Tried kanna- felt ok but really hate that feeling of just flat serotonin action makes me feel effeminate and not being able to come while being horny is infuriating. Always loved dopa highs id love to know of something that was mild like kanna and safe but hit dopamine instead of serotonin, but really i want a nice mellow downer now. Tried kava kava. Also junk imo. Feels ok but only lasts 10 mins for me while you have to chugs grams and grams of vile material (i know kratom is similar but seems better effects and duration). Not cost effective and poor duration.

Phenibut (never tried but read about it) seemed like a nice one except for the hideously fast physical dependance which makes it a nono in my books. Kratom seems a bit more lenient in that regard from other's reports.

So Id avoided kratom due to the talk of addiction but my search led me back to it. It ticks all the boxes in terms of effects tho im worried about addiction potential. Reading through these megathreads tho hasnt shed much more light because 90% of users seem to be either heroin or other heavy opiate users so it doesnt really hlep me get an idea of what an occasional non addict's user's experience might be or if indeed it is faesible to use it for extended periods only on occasion without slipping into addiction.

It is pleasing to read that it does have a hangover which wards off daily use for me plus that its alot of plant material to take down is a good safeguard for reasonable dosing vs powerful chemicals which are effective in the mg range.

Could you guys tell me how addictive it is compared to the other things ive tried cos I have no point of reference since in the megathreads ppl compare it to other opiates which im unfamiliar with.

Ive been a t-totaller for 8 month or so and life is easier but its so bland with nothing to look forward to in life. Pussy is almost impossible to get on a consistent basis and guarded by tyrants and despots who hold the monopoly on it so it just leads to misery and frustration ever hoping to have that as a succour. I just want something really easy and mild that I can enjoy now and then without having to worry about the consequences of taking it. The equiv of how most ppl use weed. i really hate hate hate weed tho so its out of the question for me.

Life is so fucking boring not having any substance to lean on but its also simpler. Ive tried doing everyday things like taking up new hobbies but I am not really a joiner and hate most ppl in mainstream society so nothing really interests me to occupy my time in that regard except for trying to get laid but as I said that is just an exercise in misery with pathetic results. Computer games are a welcome distraction but don't quite scratch the itch.

Its not near as addictive as traditonal opiates.. but if you use it on a daily basis you WILL get hooked.. no doubt, and double dosing is the quickest way to get hooked.

Kratom can be used by a SELECT few who have some sort of control.. to get off stronger opiates.. but it definitely did not work for me in the long run, and I ended up on methadone.. (trying to get off other opiates)..

Honestly.. if your trying to escape boredom.. and your bored all the time.. I see you using kratom whenever your bored (all the time)... I don't recommend you start personally..

fhturikoe- If you didn't like codeine you probably won't like kratom. I don't even think I would take Kratom if I wasn't in pain, I don't really like taking it, it's super hard on the stomach, nauseating, and probably isn't very good for mental health, though I must admit 30 minutes after taking it I feel sooo much better, as I am somewhat dependent on it. Don't get me wrong though I have taken all kinds of opiates for pain and pleasure, all that shit in the past (including H and dilaudid, oxy ect.. but only oral and nasal) Why not just exercise, I really miss running, you want a natural buzz, go for a run IMO, but everyone's different, my advice is probably avoid kratom though if you don't need it.. not a great recreational drug IMO.

My opinion is simple, don't do it. To answer your question yes and no. No you most likely won't move on to heroin or stronger opioids but yes it is still an opiate like addiction and does have consequences. Since becoming a kratom addict my self control has gone down. Opiates tend to numb you and provide an easy escape, A state that one wants to be in all the time.

Kratom and opiates tend to make me think in the moment only and my brain will find it's way of convincing me that one more dose would be fine and I will worry about it later. This kind of thinking led to me to where I am now, A 3 year addict that doses about an ounce a day and is constantly in withdrawal(every 4-6 hours). If you do get addicted your whole schedule and goals change. You must always find a way to have your kratom and your number one goal is to not suffer withdrawals. This of course leads to an on-going never ending cycle of feeding your habit till the snowball grows bigger than you can handle. don't let people fool you by saying the withdrawals are like that of a cup of coffee... that's pure bullshit and the people saying that know it or haven't been addicted. For one that has never had any sort of physical addiction the withdrawals can be quite a shocker, I know I was shocked. Here I've been reading how kratom withdrawals were so mild (which compared to oxy or heroin may be true) which built a false sense of security which turned on me after it was too late

Having said that do I really regret becoming a kratom addict? No, this is A wonderful plant and has benefits far greater than the negatives in my eyes. To some it may not be the same. I know that whatever happy mess that I'm in now is 100% the result of MY neglegance and not the plant. It would crush me if it were to be banned, it would be absolute truth of a sad corrupt government. If you do decide to get into kratom know the risks. Know that you may end up with an addiction and be prepared to step into action once you realize you have a problem. You won't be sucking dick for kratom but it's a habit none the less.

I've been using kratom almost 2 years now. I'm straight addicted to it. Although my tolerance doesn't go up because I just use plain leaf. I consume about 20gs of plain leaf a day. Sometimes a lot less.I actually never measure how much I take out but I go through a kilo in about 2 months. I used to use extracts a bunch and that's when you get in trouble.

As for testosterone levels, when I first was using it daily I would barely get any desire. My libido is just as good as it was off of it now though. It might be because I lift 4-5 times a week or my body jus got used to it. I have made significant strength gains since taking it, who know though I probably would have made better gains off of it but we won't ever know.

Same with taking a shit, it used to be a struggle now its normal turds flowing through me every day lol.

I will say this, I have never been sick (as in bacteria sickness) since I've been using kratom, take that for what its worth but I believe this stuff improves my immune system.

I lift weights all the time while on a few grams and never have problems. There is a fine line with kratom, taking more than a certain amount will just make you groggy and dizzy and no euphoria.

I still get euphoria sometimes, but with kratom every time you take it something feels different as in one day 5gs will feel overwhelming and the next it will be just right.

Withdrawal is no picnic, no nausea for me just soreness everywhere and yawning/runny nose. Phenibut and kava take pretty much all withdrawal syptoms away for me.

I started to get withdrawals probably after 2 weeks of every day use of plain leaf and some extracts.

I've just been rambling random facts to try to help anyone understand this magical but mysterious plant and advise you to use caution if you get involved. I've been opiate/benzo/alcohol/marijuana free since december 2011 and hope to obstain from everything except weed after I get off probation. It REALLY REALLY helped me stay off of anything that would show up in a drug test. I would have smoked weed or something by now if I didn't find kratom and probably be in jail but I don't shy away from the fact that I am addicted.

PS: All my friends that I've tried to give kratom to have hated it, not one had the same enjoyment out of it that I did. Couldbe many reasons for that, it is not some strong opiate feeling unless you are taking extracts. Also, many of them didn't feel anything so they kept taking more until they got sick.

It's not for everybody, use it to get off harder stuff or to keep you from going to jail and I find it a godsend.

Oh and don't buy your stuff from smoke shops.

Same with taking a shit, it used to be a struggle now its normal turds flowing through me every day lol.

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I've actually found that kratom keeps me nice and regular. Maybe due to the fiber?

I will say this, I have never been sick (as in bacteria sickness) since I've been using kratom, take that for what its worth but I believe this stuff improves my immune system.

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I too have noticed this. Although I rarely got sick before getting on kratom I still find this fascinating.

I still get euphoria sometimes, but with kratom every time you take it something feels different as in one day 5gs will feel overwhelming and the next it will be just right.

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BUY A SCALE! everyone who has claimed to have inconsistency problems don't use a scale. All my doses are very consistent effects wise when weighed. Its impossible to eyeball the same amount consistently, especially when you don't even have a referance as to what 5 grams looks like. Also different strains have different weights. I can't reccomend enough that kratom users buy at least a 10$ scale from amazon. Not only for dose consistency but so you actually know where your habit is and when you want to to taper you can effectively do so.

Withdrawal is no picnic, no nausea for me just soreness everywhere and yawning/runny nose.

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Tell me about it. I get NO GI distress (ie.nausea, vomiting diahrea) but the RLS, runny aches, bone pain, and runny nose and eyes SUCK!!! Complete restlessness, pain, and and anxiety. Since when does coffee produce such withdrawals lol. That's a mere cover-up to keep kratom legal IMO.

On a side note, have any of you kratom users noticed green tinted urine? I have ever sinced I started taking kratom and when I brought it up to my Dr she said it was most likely from food and vitamins (didn't mention the kratom to her) and that it's fine. I'm guessing it's excess chlorophyll or something.

Also has anyone run into any GI problems when taking kratom? I recently developed duodenal ulcers and I feel kratom is to blame. I don't think it has to do with the TnW method either as I havent done so in about a year and a half. I don't know if I'm allowed to post links to other forums but reading through this http://www.drugs-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=152523 makes me realize I'm not alone. Especially this post " Once i stayed a very long Time on a tiny Island in the south of Thailand close to Myanmar, mostly all the (male) native People chewed Kratom every Day since Childhood. When i asked them about Side-effects all reported Stomach Problems and gastric Ulcers! Maybe it is common when Kratom is used daily?" For those who don't know ulcers are generally caused by a bacteria called Helicobactor Pylori or H.pylori for short. Mine was proven to be caused by the bacteria and not due to eating excess powder, though I doubt that helped. Anyways I was told this bacteria runs rampant in third world countries so perhaps the workers who farm kratom are not taking sanitary precautions such as coughing on plants or even on their hands before working with the plant thus sending kratom with the bacteria infestation. Perhaps its just something about the plant that's hard on the stomach...IDK. What I do know is I'm not the only one who experienced this.

The thing is, sometimes I will take significantly less one day but feel what I call the negative effects of kratom more than when I take a large dose. Good idea with the scale but I know that so many things factor in with kratom's effects than just the amount.

The stomach problems sound like you might need to change your source. I have used the same source for almost 2 years now and never had green urine or any stomach problems. Do you buy crushed leaf and grind yourself? The stems might be to blame. I usually buy already powdered/sifted kratom and never had digestive issues.

I also used to take accutane and would get my blood taken every month and all my liver functions/enzymes were fine after heavy kratom and kava use.

Trust me, my sources are top-notch . I have noticed this throughout my whole time using kratom and have been through a few sources, ALL legit. In fact my main vendor is extremely top notch, a lil pricey but worth it as quality and service are as high as can be for a vendor. The people at opiophile may know who I'm reffering to.

I also should have said that when I first got the ulcers I checked into a hospital because I didn't know what was wrong with me and they ran all tests and even a CT scan and all was normal. I'm not saying the green tinted urine is indicative of any internal damage or even that its for sure the kratom causing it but since starting my journey I have noticed a *slight* green tinge and a friend has mentioned the same (We use different sources). The doctors said its extremely common for food and vitamins to add a green tint to urine. Asparagus is notorious for this so why can't kratom be as well? Who knows, maybe you and I don't digest the excess chlorophyll the same. Idk I'm no doctor.

Regarding my ulcer it could very well be completely un related, I was merely speculating. I too was 100% fine until a couple months ago when the ulcers started so its not like as soon as I started I was pissing moss green and suffering of ulcers... it took time. I know for a fact that others have also had some sort of GI distress regarding kratom and to put it down to something on sources or the users fault is, while a reasonable question, a bit ignorant. Especially when others claim this and a person who stayed in thailand mentioned that ulcers were a widespread problem amongst the kratom users. Although I will say this, if the h.pylori is already rampant in thailand who's to say the kratom is to blame? This is a place for sharing harm reduction info so I'm going to share whatever info I've got, good or bad, coincidence or not. If kratom causes me to lose an eye than I'm going to say that. I'm a no-nonsense guy, when someone claims to experience problems with a drug, even if its my DOC I'm not gonna deny it and look for any excuse to deny the drug as the cause like many addicts do. Look at some of the MXE heads refuse to believe that their sacred drug caused someone to go through what looks like irreversable kidney damage. Yes there were other drugs involved and MXE very well mag NOT be the culprit but to see the flat out denial is sad, even from an addicts eyes. I must say this, I'm NOT saying your in denial lol, just stating what I've seen from others on this forum so don't be offended by my somber tone.

I buy top notch powdered leaf with very little if any stem and vein, nicely micro grinded fluffy light green/gold powder. For the first year to year and a half I tossed and washed but realized that eating all that powder can't be good (just my opinion, not making claims here) so I switched to making tea and haven't looked back. Trust me though, that scale will be so worth the 10$, I promise you will notice consistency. Even when switching strains the variance isn't by much. There's not as many factors as you would think.

Yes it very well could be the kratom, who knows as there isn't any studies on long term use. All I know is I've had zero stomach issues after heavy use but I know that isn't saying much since some people can drink liquor every day and not have liver problems and we all know how bad alcohol is for the liver.

If it was caused by bacteria doesn't that pretty much tell you how you got it, so it is not directly because of kratom but because it was on the kratom.

Do you still use kratom now that you found out you have ulcers?

Everyone I have talked to about kratom over the internet agrees that it is really mysterious when it comes to effects. It is extremely variable, more so than any other drug I have taken. Like when you get a new strain, you always feel the same effects? Sometimes I won't feel anything from a new strain, then a couple days later it feels even better than my old strain.

Ever heard of stale strain syndrome? You keep eating the same strain and it does nothing after awhile. And it's not tolerance because you can all of a sudden get high again some days.

Time of day also has a huuuuuge impact. I've also noticed if I sleep for a few hours and then eat it is stronger than if I stayed up for the same amount of time and then ate some. Obviously having an empty or full stomach is a big factor too. If I'm at work, I can take way more and have energy than if I was at home sitting down watching tv or something. The same amount would give me the wobbles. It's just a weird fucking drug.

If your doing extracts though it is more consistent and more like an actual opiate as in tolerance will go way up. There is a line with plain leaf for me, and when I cross it I get no more euphoria just what I consider the bad effects of kratom, the dizziness and fucked up vision aka the wobbles. But again because its so fucking weird, this line changes every day. And you say how would you know you don't have a scale, well I use this wooden spoon usually to toss n wash(sometimes I use just a card if I'm at work) so the amount isn't off and even with a card I can tell if I'm taking my usual amount or not.

IDK man I don't think anyone truly understands this plant and all its dangers/benefits.

Yeah, kratom is an interesting one. even though ive been using it for a few years I still can catch a buzz and overall, is a much better alternative then a lot of other things imo. its a much more controllable/manageable habit. oxy used to be my thing but kratom has worked so well as a "maintenance drug" i dont have a reason to do anything harder, including alcohol.... its kept me on track.
Anyways... food and stomach conditions are the biggest factor (imo) when it comes down to how variable the effects can be. make sure not to eat/drink dairy anytime around a dose, it kills any effect for me. i always eat a little bit of something right after i take it, not much. im not sure why but ive always gotten more consistent effects. fatty foods dont mix well with kratom, ive always had decent luck with 1/2 pbj sandwich (12 grain wheat bread, not a tiny piece of white bread) and bagels, plain or with a little butter. it can be frustrating when you know you're only getting partial effects off a dose.
As for eye wobbles, i have only noticed them with white veins, in bigger doses. rarely will i get them from a green/indo/bali. a good solid red vein normally yeilds the most consistent effects, (and extracts as liftedgift said above) ive never gotten eye wobbles off of a red, no matter the dose.
hope this helps!

I just started with kratom - I've dosed 3 times and have another batch on the way of bali powder (my first go-round was with thai). I'm coming off of subutex, it's been 3 days off the sub and I dosed the last 2 days with the kratom. So far it seems to be keeping the w/ds at bay; am hoping to keep it going but I only have one smaller-than-usual dose left and the other won't arrive for 3-5 days. So.. probably Monday. Thinking of using loperamide (sp) or gabapentin if I get in a pinch. Anyway, I noticed eye-wobbles the first time I dosed at ~ 7.5 grams (found out that there's somewhere between 2.5-2.6g in a teaspoon so I've just been dosing with 3 teaspoons at a time until I acquire a scale). The wobbles weren't really unpleasant, just notable, since that's only ever happened with me on either high doses of opiates or MDMA. Glad when I came here tonight and saw it's common among other uses.

So far I think kratom might be a pretty good option for getting of the suboxone/subutex coaster. Have been thinking of switching after the first month (when acute sub wd/s would normally be over) to lope, then asking my dr. to put me on Neurontin indefinitely. That's the plan. Thanks for this thread. Thoughts welcome.

^Sounds like a good plan. Kratom is an absolute godsend when coming off of suboxone.

I switch between 4 strains and they're all active around the same dose give or take .5 grams. Some strains like indo, thai, and maeng da don't do shit for me so I just stick with the strains that work, ironicaly the cheaper strains. I never use extracts as they will ruin the effects of plain leaf and well.. I'm not the richest guy so I stick to what's more cost effective. I've heard of people saying that switching strains keeps tolerance at bay and how one strain loses its effects after a while but that is not the case with me at all. I can stick to bali for months at a time and get the same effects then if I were to constantly rotate strains. As far as time of day goes I thought that was true for the first year as my wake-up dose was more euphoric than my evening dose but realized it was due to the fact my stomach was empty in the mornings and not so much in the evening. I tested this by making sure my stomach was completely empty for the evening dose and low and behold the doses felt the same.

When I first starting feeling the pain of my ulcers I rapidly tapered my kratom to near nothing as I thought I was experiencing liver problems but once I was diagnosed with an ulcer (about 3 weeks after staring taper) and realizing my liver tests were fine and that my pain had not changed one bit since kicking I hopped back on the kratom train lol. It was great because my tolerance was so low I was able ti get the itchy fuzzies from like 5 grams which was a nice reminder of the old days. Kratom is truely a strange plant, the alkaloid profiles varies from antagonists, agonists, diuretics, skeletal muscle relaxants and lots more. What's even cooler is we don't even know ALL the alkaloids in this plant which means there can be a wonderful medicine in this plant that we just haven't discovered.

As far as the far-fetched h.pylori theory goes... yes, ulcers are caused by a bacteria (generally, NSAID's are the only other real culprits) so if kratom causes ulcers its most likely not due to the plant itself but from contamination from workers which let's face it, their in a third-world country harvesting for many many hours and probably aren't using hand sanitizer after coughing on their hands only to get dirty harvesting again. Vendors play no part in what the workers in indonesia do so even the top vendors can get an infected batch. But like I said, PURE SPECULATION. Although not far fetched if you think about how widespread the bacteria is in those places along with the ease of spreading (saliva and mucous).

One last thing I wanna mention is kratoms tolerance. For me both kratom and cannabis build tolerance similarly. The dose tends to stay around the same but quality of effects decline. For example, I've been smoking for 9 years, about 8 of those everyday lol and 1 fat bong hit still gets me pretty faded but I no longer get the giggles, extreme munchies, childlike wonder, or dissociation (yeah weed used to make me dissociated in my virgin toking years) and trying to chase these effects is pontless and will lead to mothing but more anxiety. Same goes for kratom, while my dose has risen, not as much as you'd expect for a three year 2-3x daily kratom habit. The only thing that happens is the quality of effects (euphoria, itches, mood boost, stimulation)diminish and don't come back at higher doses, usually the effects get worst. One thing that sucks about my long term abuse is no matter which strain I use or what dose I take I no longer get the stimulating motivational effects... like at all :/. This means that stimulating strains tend to not do shit in the euphoria/opiate department OR the stimulating/focused department so I only take sedating red veins. All kratom makes me kinda lazy after the first hour. Besides that this plant is still one of the best medicines out and I have no real complaints.

Edit: Aha!! I think I figured the greenish urine explanation. So here me out, vitamins (primarily B vitamins) are expelled from the body through urine with a greenish tint. Well... kratom has diuretic alkaloids which in case you don't know what a diuretic does it induces urination and expellment (even a word?) of excess vitamins and waste which could mean that my body expells vitamins through my urine at greater concentrations then normal thus the green tinted urine :D This could also explain why I pee alot more than before getting on kratom. Once again though when I say green urine its yellow/green tinted urine....NOT dark green urine which is indicative of oxidized bilirubin related to liver problems so if your pissin dark green get that checked out lol.

Yeah, first dose of the day is definitely the best... the tolerance thing is different for sure(plain leaf that is), my doses haven't risen nearly what you'd think. the effects arnt like they were, but still pretty good... on a normal day i normally do 4/day at 6g. RVT, green borneo, bali, red borneo. sometimes you can time it right and for some reason my last dose of the day can be very comparable to the first. i like the different effects you can get from new or different strains. kratom is an interesting one, its kinda like all the different strains of weed(also a daily smoker) but the difference in effects are more pronounced. like CaptainKratom said, I used to like green and white veins at first but now im leaning toward red a little more. greens and whites are normally motivating for me, i still like them, but reds have a better feel to them for sure.

Maybe it would be a good idea to put your kratom in the freezer for a couple days, to try to kill any bacteria that might be on it.