Bupe can anyone tell me if switching to a ful agonist would help someone addicted to subs?

k so i have read so many horror stories about people who went on sub maintanence and then could not get off it, they fgound that the wd lasted much longer than wd from heroin or whatever their opiate of choice was.

now we all know that using sub to come off heroin can make the process a lot easier provided youre not on sub long enough to get heavily dependent on it. my question is, can it work in reverse? in other words, lets say youve been on sub maintenance a couple of years and cant deal with the long drawn out withdrawal. could you switch to morphine for 6 - 8 months, then taper off morphine with codeine and kratom (or some other way) and then come off and be over the withdrawal faster as if you had been just coming off morphine and never had a suboxone addiction? could you even use suboxone again to comne off the morph?

personally, i am not depende3nt on suboxone. i jsut fear that it is going to happen because i cant maintan my heroin addiction anymore financially and its very hard for me to be without some kind of opioid so i fear i may become dependent on suboxone and i am wondering if this method i outlined could help one to avoid the lengthy withdrawal.

I dont know if this helps you anyway.. But I used subuxone recreationally for like 1-3 months and now i've been 6 days without it.
The first three days I was without opiates at all, and then I got my hands on some roxie's and have been tapering with them, basically taking low amounts of OC every second day and it have been helping me alot.
I plan to taper slowly and maby leave opiates for a while because I felt like shit abusing such a strong opioid like subuxone and I knew I have to stop it..
I guess you could switch to morphine if you use it wisely and not for a long period, and then switch to tramadol (If you have acces to it) and taper with it, and then switch to codeine from the tramadol. If the codeine tapering feels like it's going nowhere, I would suggest using pregabalin or somekind of a benzou.

Moe

It's not going to take you months to ''switch'' to another opioid - merely the length of the suboxone withdrawal. Take your morphine or what not for ~3 weeks, then discontinue, should you wish to ''withdraw from morphine and not suboxone.''

Best of luck.

C

Switching from buprenorphine to another opioid works better than the other way around, that's for sure, but it's still got it's problems.

Buprenorphine has extremely high binding affinity to the mu-opioid receptor, so its presence will prevent other opioids like morphine from binding and thus exerting effects. It's got a pretty long half-life, so for that duration as you wean off the bupe, other opioids you take will not work. If you then switch back to bupe, you will go into withdrawal, as the bupe will immediately oust your morphine, but have insufficient opioid activity (being a partial agonist) compared to your tolerance to a full agonist.

At the end of the day, withdrawal for both is a bitch - long and strenuous with bupe, short and intense for most of the rest. I'm not sure what's harder to kick, but on the face of it, it would seem counter-intuitive to switch from bupe to a full agonist - unless you're set on going cold turkey and getting it over with quick?

Honestly I've noticed that I ''get used'' to the withdrawal after about 48 - 72 hours. I'd rather it be over after 7 days than a month. (IE suboxone) I've made it over 100 days clean from ANY opiod/ate and have still had intestinal / sleeping problems. But, however hard to explain, you get used to them. Eventually being in ''perpetual'' withdrawal becomes part of your lifestyle, and you learn to adjust. In the end, I still think the ''three day (lulz)'' withdrawal from a short acting agonist is better than the months of misery from Subbies.

Either are doable, though. It's honestly a matter of willpower, and how much Immodium/Recreational solvents you have on hand.

Again, good luck.

C

In theory this could work, although the reason you don't hear more people using this method, is because the reason they got on suboxone to begin with was because they couldn't control their addiction to full agonists. If you can taper using morphine or heroin, then that is awsome, but not many people have that willpower. Honestly doing a slow taper with the suboxone and jumping off at .125 mg would probably serve you best.

I have tapered all the way with heroin before, so I know I can do it. However, it is very hard. I tried to do it again this week and was doing well until today when ive gotten high twice already. DANG. Anyway, where was i? oh yes, so i mean the reason I ask is because i see so many posts like "man i regret ever going on suboxone. Its way harder to get off than heroin! its been 2 months and i am still in WD"" those posts scare me.


Therefore, it seems logical to me, to just go back on heroin for 5-7 months or so to get the sub dependence over with, than get off the heroin again. In theory you could even use suboxone AGAIN to get off heroin just as long as you only took it a week, right? Plus,. who wouldnt want to go on a heroin run? It sounds like a fun cure. anyway, i wish someone would test this out. it seems like it would solve the suboxone horror stories problem.

^Ive heard a few people do it successfully, but never using heroin. Usually they're using some weaker opioid like hydrocodone for a few weeks. I think people that complain in such a fashion have clearly forgotten how shitty being completely strung out on heroin is.

I'm sure it can be done this way but it poses some serious problems for me. If your concern is minimizing withdrawal length then I'm sure this could help but I don't think its the most conducive to sobriety (i hate that word). After being on suboxone for a long time (5.5 years) without really getting high, I had forgotten for the most part what it felt like. For this reason, I think having the most recent memory of opiate use being your DOC could pose a serious problem in abstaining.

Well... having the necessary funds is really what's going to make or break that plan. Depending on your tolerence, even if you only did enough dope to stay well while weening off the entire time, it's still quite an expensive habit... and that's if you never do a few extra shots here and there..which unfortunately is likely. So if you start running out of money and shit, messing up your taper, etc, you'll just be back to being fully wound out on the H which totally sucks... Unlike being on the bupe, you get sick much faster and have to dose much more frequently.

I kind of did what you're talking about.. though not really for your reasons. I was on suboxone for years and couldn't get off. I tried to jump off at .125, still had the sweats and insomnia, and said fuck it.. If I'm still sick from this crap, I'm just getting back on H.. so I did, and now I'm totally strung to the gills and I very rarely can say, "I'll just use enough today to stay well and start weening down." So now my funds are severely lacking, and I have a full blown H addiction... in retrospect, I should have just toughed it out coming off of the suboxone, because being strung out on H sucks, don't forget that.

one of my good friends posed that scenario to me and said he's going to do that... im slowly tapering sub dosage and hes a full blown dopehead still... just saying. it doesnt really work, practically.

I recommend switching to a full agonist before kicking subs. Sub withdrawal sucks especially because it lasts over a week physically, while full agonists only last ~3 days. Plus, sub PAWs (esp. anxiety) draw out for months and months in my experience. I wish I switched to something like oxy before I kicked subs.

HHazard20 said:

one of my good friends posed that scenario to me and said he's going to do that... im slowly tapering sub dosage and hes a full blown dopehead still... just saying. it doesnt really work, practically.

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Yup.

Anyone notice how people who try doin their own taper and shit with full agonists have done it DOZENS AND DOZENS OF TIMES BEFORE? Whereas I haven't had to get "clean" since I started using subs and the memory of getting high is starting to fade? Maybe its possible that relapsing hundreds of times versus 1-2 is not a positive, and actually PROVES THE IDEA IS FLAWED?

Anyone also ever notice how people who stick with the subs and DONT fuck around and worry about the W/D after stay clean longer? I"ve been on the subs over 6 months and I couldnt' give a FUCK LESS about "how bad the w/d" are gonna be, I am trying to quit doing illicit opiates. Your whole mentality seems to still revolve around thinking of opiates and getting high.

Dont chance it man you were a dope addict for a reason (that reason being you cant control your usage of opiates).

I mean youre reading SUB HORROR STORIES as an excuse to not get clean/not stick it out/etc, what about all the DOPE HORROR STORIES? Never read any of those I guess?

DooMMooD said:

what about all the DOPE HORROR STORIES? Never read any of those I guess?

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Thats cause theyre all dead.

No, and if you get down to a low sub dose the worst of it is over by day 4.

I have tapered myself off of full agonists using full agonists god knows how many times.. . but that was only when I was using 2-4 weeks per "run" at that most. Didn't really stay off until I did it with Sub.

Why did you go on sub the 1st place? What makes you think you'll be able to taper and quit using a full agonist when for whatever reason you ended up dependent on bupe? Bupe you can taper without compulsion to take more, as it's a partial agonist. You should just taper down to .25mg every other day and withdrawal will be cake compared to coming off at a high dose or a full agonist.

This is your addict part of your brain trying to rationalize switching to a drug you can get high off of again. It's the truth sorry man. The only people who have tons of trouble getting off bupe are people who still use and jump back and forth, and try to jump atl ike 2mg+. Taper dwon to .25mg like I said and you can literally nto even miss a day of work goign through your withdrawals.