Bupe A definitive quick bupe taper

Principle behind taper is 30% reduction every 3 days down to .2mg. The idea is to switch opiates (pods to bupe) and then ease myself into sobriety. The .2 mg jump off is supposed to result in minimal pain.

You can dissolve your dose in alcohol for precise dosing. I rounded up the figures here but dissolving 36.15 mg sub in x amount of alcohol and investing in a pipette you could get a 0.1mg per .5ml solution for example allowing you to step down in .1 increments if you wish. I keep seeing people flogging themselves with barb tipped whips over tapers. But to be honest if it hurts too much just reduce the amount you drop by. If you cant jump off just keep reducing it until your drinking straight gin with a hint of subutex to complement the juniper. I cant see how dropping by .1 could ever be painful or even noticeable particularly if its every week say.

6 / / 4.5 / / 1.5 / / 0.3 / / 0.2 / /

Along side the above i'll be using :
Clonidine
Adderall/Ritalin: Purely for exams/coursework
Weed
Tyrosine
DL Phenylalanine
5htp

The initial few days are the most painful particularly with long acting opiates. I'll be waiting 24 hours until I dose since at that mark im feeling the creeping sensations coming on. Hopefully this should minimise discomfort. From what ive seen its the safest most effective method for weaning oneself off opiates.
Loperamide is known to cause parkinsons so im loathe to use it for anything other than the shits in recommended doses i'll try buscopan too and if that does the trick i'll avoid it altogether.
I'll provide daily updates. Hopefully this will be the last time I have to bare my vertical grin and get shafted by my addiction. Opiates are the great deception they really do promise things to make your toes curl but when it comes down to it theyve done nothing but screw me repeatedly.

I might be advising the choir to pray on this one but perhaps there should be a bupe taper megathread. It really is universally the single best method for coming off opiates when done right. 2 weeks tops and youre home free. The downward slope need not even be an insomnia driven skidfest either. Plenty of anti-dye meds clonidine and weed will help a hella lot.

Other thing is I invested in a glass pipe and vapor genie. The vapor genie was 50 quid its just a vapor pipe but the advantage is that it allows you to get twice as much out of your herb. I'll take a few tokes from the genie and be pleasantly stoned. Then use that same weed in the glass pipe 15mins later when my high starts waning and be floored. Worth the 50 in my book. The amount of weed i'll be putting away these things are mandatory.

This looks pretty solid OP! Well done. I would generally advice staying at your dose for four days as opposed to three, but this isn't such a big deal, especially if you need to be done with the subs sooner than laters or only have a limited supply.

BTW, how much PPT were you using and for how long? I found the w/d from a moderate PPT addiction, where I was taking tea from about 6 pods a day for two-three months, to be really really harse. the first couple days were fine, but it got really bad around day three or four. the first weekend was absolutely HORRIBLE (I mean, I'd take w/d from a bad heroin habit over having to do that again, ANY day...), and it too up to three weeks for it to really go away.

given the long half life of the alkaloids in ppt, especially the fact you'll be detoxing from multiple substances when you start your bupe detox, well, given your schedule you'll only be on the bupe for 15 days. I'd HIGHLY recommend spending four days at each dose in order to allow your system to get rid of ALL the PPT alkaloids before you stop the suboxone.

in other words, actually, upon reflection I HIGHLY recommend a 20 day (at four days per reduction) fast bupe detox/taper than the 15 day one you've planned. then again, I think you'll be more or less fine with the detox you've laid out above, but just to be on the safe side I'd recommend the 20 days over 15.

BTW - have you ever detoxed from PPT before?

and if you can get it, phentabut, gaba/neurontin and lyrica - one of those at least - would be a really good addition to your detox kit.

Many and I mean many thanks. I meant to ask the question you answered for me lol. Im using around 7-8 heaped tablespoons of pod flour which at the moment holds me pretty much all day. Only been on the pods 4 months and ive already felt how bad a good pod w/d can be. Shivering yawning mental fog tearing up stomach cramps and thats the morning of each dose.
I'll see how im feeling on day 15. If im in a state i'll hold on at .2 or continue to go down by the same increments. I got the 3 day idea from a guy on another forum who in turn got it from an addiction specialist. The 30 percent/3 day method is supposed ot be optimum for whatever number of reasons.
Ive tried gabapentin and it didnt do anything for me if im honest. I was chucking them back in a feeding frenzy and I may as well have been eating sugar pills. Im looking at nigella sativa which looks VERY promising. Problem is there are aparently 2 varieties an inactive and an active and I cant find any way to spot the difference.
I was going to switch to Dihydrocodeine to avoid the long half life of pods and the implications for my taper. Codeine is an alternative but i'd have to spend 50 60 quid im guessing. My worry is finishing the taper only to discover that the pod withdrawal is in full swing. Usually that wouldnt be an issue since im withdrawing from opiates but there is the issue of other chemicals such as thebaine and papaverine which are arguably factors in a pod w/d.
I had a perfect source for recreational prescription drugs of every description. They seem to have turned coat though. There are loads of negative reports over at topix which is a surprisingly useful site for checking out online suppliers.

yea, gaba didn't do shit for me either, even a 4+ grams... for some reason the brand name nuerontin makes a big difference though, even though it's supposed to be gaba too, which it definitely was not in terms of effects... who knows. still, try to get your hands on some lyrica.

you know what you're doing and I think you've got a great plan in place. the bupe is also way better of an idea than the dihydrocodeine given bupe's exceptionally long half life. i mean, it's half life is longer than any of the alkaloids in PPT (I'm almost certain of this), so it is ideal for what you're doing.

15 days should be enough time, but don't feel bad if you have to extend the taper. you gots this cat in the bag friend, just remember to post back and let us know how it is going!

Cheers mate. Everything so far is following the scheme. Urine test came out positive, got a reliable connect for some dank weed, got the carrot at the end of the tunnel (pure MDMA - salivates) and im going to order the meds tomorrow.
Final regime is:
Nigella sativa: Apparently its a lifesaver
clonidine: The only chilling I want to be doing is the red eyed variety
buscopan :Noone likes cramps
weed: Boredom sucks
ULD Naltrexone: Should help lower my tolerance as I taper making the whole process easier
Phenylalaninerolongs lifespan of enkaphalins
DXM: For the days when weed just isnt enough

Wish I could get my hands on some proglumide. My thinking is that lowering tolerance as you taper makes the entire thing natural. The taper will hurt a whole lot less if your body needs less and less of the drug as it progresses.

Yup, your strategy to lower tolerance to make the detox go better is imho the BEST way to get off opioids. That's how I detoxed on heroin, by focusing on lowering my w/d. Even cold turkey, I was able to lower my tolerance so drastically over such a short period of time I didn't suffer whatsoever and w/ds were over in 5 days. No lingering effects... Of course, two weeks after that I got on suboxone maintenance, so there might have been rebound PAWS like effects or something, but at least this go around I'll never know... Until the next time at least...

DXM is a very potent NMDA receptor antagonist, and at doses of 230-690mg works amazingly well at addressing you tolerance when detoxing. A must have, just as long as you don't mind the effects. Literally the stuff saved my life.

I successfully went on bupe in rehab to get off heroin and got off the bupe by the end of rehab doing a similar plan except swap the weed for benzos :D.

Well after starving myself of opiates for a full day + went to the clinic and was told I start next tuesday. Total crap - apparently they "dont prescribe over the weekend". I was under the impression that doctors took something called the hippocratic oath. I told them that I wouldnt even be able to get pods until tuesday and their all powerful red tape is apparently more important. They could have prescribed over the weekend but didnt. Ah well it could be worse - this could be Russia in which case i'd get bread water and a pair of prison issue cuff links
I literally had to crawl back to the house. Ive only ever experienced codeine withdrawals but these were nearly on the same level as precipitated codeine withdrawals after just over 24 hours. I couldnt even get the pod flour down I was so nauseous . Thank goodness I live in a country where I can access tapering programmes free.
I learnt 2 lifelong lessons today. 1 im a wuss and 2 I have the highest admiration for anyone who can lick a pod addiction cold turkey and even more so for the folks who can do it once and for all supermen one and all

Anyone have any intel on adaptogens? Ginseng and Rhodolia Rosea apparently can help restore the homeostatic balance which is exactly what we need when withdrawing. Do they actually make a discernible difference during acute phase/paws

Im also considering using kanna which looks very very promising. It contains mesembrine an sri and is supposed to be a subtle empathogen and anti anxiety. I might combine this with blue lotus and cannabis to produce a nice pervasive mood lift.

kanna can be nice, but it's still very mild. i imagine it would be useful during PAWS, as would (I know from my own experience) are the herbs mentioned in your first paragraph. even though i believe they do make a difference during PAWS, i find that nootropics, especially racetams such as piracetam, make way more of a positive difference during w/d and PAWS.

even then, you'll get more from exercising rigorously, eating right, having a proper sleep schedule and pursuing your passions will help a lot more than anything mentioned here.

Im probably just going overkill with all these supplements but I have to attend lectures do performances exams complete coursework and go to a funeral over the next month or so and even if I were on form i'd be stressed out.

Im looking for something that will reduce weed anxiety too. I find that when I smoke daily for a few weeks my negative emotions are amplified. The vapor genie actually provides a rarefied kind of high. Great thing is there's zero anxiety for me so I might just stick to vaporising my bud.
The hardest part of withdrawal is that feeling that the colour has been drained from the world. It feels as if im walking around in a Goya painting. Everything's muted and sombre looking. Thats what eventually gets me everytime. I was thinking of creating a sort of herbal blend:
Mugwort
Kanna
Damiana
Chamomile

Those three together and alongside the 5htp and tyrosine could make a subtle shift which is all I need and all I can reasonably expect. The main thing is that its sustainable. I can use them for as long as I need to. If I dont see any worthwhile change I might look at an ssri or an snri.

I favoured piracetam over the amp family but I did a bit of reading around and it turns out that there are quite a few people who experience a sort of withdrawal from the -acetams. Its not w/d at full tilt more just sluggish thought and anxiety, but the last thing I need is to run out of the stuff and find myself up the creek.

I'll vouch for the nigella sativa, ginsing, valerian root & all hot herbal teas...

So far we've got:
Nigella sativa
Mugwort
Kanna
Blue lotus
Damiana
Passionflower
Chamomile

I reckon that list could be cut down to 2 or 3 that would have any discernible effect though.

Bucklecroft Rudy said:

I favoured piracetam over the amp family but I did a bit of reading around and it turns out that there are quite a few people who experience a sort of withdrawal from the -acetams. Its not w/d at full tilt more just sluggish thought and anxiety, but the last thing I need is to run out of the stuff and find myself up the creek.

Click to expand...

Although I've only taken it for 6 months stretches before, I've never found there to be any w/d. But I trust your research. I think you got a good plan going with the herbs.

Honestly, I'd just go with these:

Nigella sativa
Mugwort
Kanna
Blue lotus /or/ Passionflower

Still, couldn't hurt to add more. Have you ever done anything with mint? There is one species or genus or something that is supposed to be great for one's nerve. Forget the name off the top of my head, but of course they got it over there on erowid

Ah I think you might mean intoxicating mint. Its from uzbhekistan and is supposed to be a hypnotic/tranq/mild hallucinogen. I'll take a look. It looks interesting although the hallucinogenic stuff sounds a little off putting
Im going to narrow it right down to 2-3 herbs, any more and i'll be breaking the bank and i'll probably end up with some sort of life threatening interaction.

Final final list is as follows:
Hemp protein powder: All 20 amino acids including tryptophan and tyrosine. Should help restore homeostasis particularly with reduced apetite
passionflower: MAOI properties and a proven anti anxiety agent - as effective as benzos if you believe the studies
st johns wort: Same as above
XXX chilli:Capsaican is a nerve irritant and fools the brain into producing endorphins
Multi spectrum mineral/vitamin:Same principle as the protein powder
Head massager: Everyone has heard of the famed orgasmatron device. It applies pressure to the points on the head and relieves tension - great for headaches which im incredibly susceptible to during w/d. If the ancient chinese practitioners are to be believed the meridian points on the head when stimulated can induce endorphin production
weed:Kills time and restores some colour to an otherwise joyless world
ULD Naltrexone:Lowers tolerance and kickstarts endorphin production

Overall this all came to £70.00 not including weed and naltrexone. I reckon i'll get through a heady bag a week using my vape and pipe. The herbs I was dancing around all had great selling points but there were snags such as reported addictive properties and rapid tolerance buildup. My only concern is whether the protein powder will be effective since tyrosine/tryptophan arent easily absorbed with competition

Head massager arrived today and thought i'd provide a little review. Its right before my penultimate opiate dose and im slightly uncomfortable - stomach fizzing and a general malaise. I started using the head massager and within less than 10-20 seconds I feel noticeably chilled relaxed and dare I say comfortable. It definitely releases endorphins and feels equivalent to a moderate runners high - mind this is only after 10-20 seconds. Only problem is it feels like an effeminate thing to do falling on the side of the touchy feely - ah well its so moreish so who gives a.
Anyways its less than a fiver and when compared with the results its a petty price to pay. Reckon it'll be invaluable on the days when im mega stressed which are coming up thick and fast.

Started treatment today. I swear the drug clinic are working against me at every turn. For whatever asinine reason I have to start on a dose which isnt even holding me and wait 2 weeks for them to titrate the dose up. This completely fucks my taper up since i'll have to be on the bupe for 2 weeks before I can even get on a comfortable dose. The clinic seems to operate to justify its own rules rather than to actually get people off drugs.
I may just taper down from the dose im on and endure the pain. Does anyone know why they start patients on an inadequate dose? Surely it makes more sense to give us some level of control over our treatment. They wont hand out scripts until you test negative for opiates because of concern that patients will in a fit of self loathing take bupe on top of their DOC. They wont even do the calculations and prescribe a holding dose instead we have to spend 2 weeks in w/d's for them to push the dose up.

Different clinics works by different rules. My fav hospital here in the states started me @ 8mg per my request/clearly I knew what I was doing. A friend of mine was started at 16mg, but his habit was pretty ridiculous.

Regardless, I'd take this as an opportunity. Being on sub an extra week or two isn't going to make coming off it much more if at all more difficult. This could be a great exercise in self control.

At the same time... yea, this does fucking suck OP... How some clinics act baffles me. Generally speaking I loath the industry...

Cheers that was my main worry that 4 weeks was just too long on the bupe. I have to piss clear daily for the next few weeks and my family are really piling on the shit in great spadefuls for whatever reason. Its going to be a trying 2 weeks - youre right im going to need a lot of self control to keep it together.
Im the same. Things like not being able to convert bupe to say morphine or hydrocodone and expecting dopesick junkies to get to the clinic every single day without fail rather than just springing random tests.