Doctors insult my intelligence and cause me to 2nd guess myself regarding placebo

This pisses me off and causes me to barely trust doctors at all except for the most rudimentary things.

They even give the same 'stock' replies like they are just reciting a script- which they probably are from medical school.

Two particular cases spring to mind.

One case where I took my 1st dose of citalopram anti depressant and felt definite serotonin action after one dose. I have taken E for enough years to be sure I could feel the action there- usual mild high effects, along with intense yawning so it couldn't have been a fucking placebo if yawning was also present. When I told the doctor this the moron just goes 'they only take effect after several weeks or even months (like they ALWAYS say straight form the book) and you were experiencing placebo'- I thought how fucking braindead would you have to be to not feel anything till after that long! I feel even the slightest thing when it enters my body. Might be subtle but I feel it. He then says what I was feeling was 'due to the anxiety of taking a drug which was relieved once I'd taken it'- what a stupid convoluted statement. Fucker, I feel so insulted when they give me this 'pat' bullshit talk. They are staring at you with glazed eyes like they've said it a million times.

Another time and what spurred me to write this cos it reminded me of what he said is taking magnesium and how it isn't proven that it helps sleep. I'm the first one who likes empirical evidence but at the same time just cos it hasn't been proven yet doesn't mean it isn't true (just like gods existence, lol j/k :D). I just awoke from an immense sleep- I'm a very anxious person usually and always keep waking and get very stilted REM. Last night nearly every second felt like REM as I remembered nearly every dream between my usual waking up to go to piss. I feel super refreshed compared to usual.

I told the doctor this once how magnesium helps me and he says 'the jury is still out on whether it relaxes you. You are a very sensitive person, it's just placebo, I could give you anything and tell you it will work and you'd say it was working' Thanks for condescending me you stupid piece of shit!

I find this really irritating because it makes me second guess myself. I have just decided not to trust them in general now. Guess I just wrote it for validation they are idiots :D.

Sounds like youve got a shit doctor.

IME both of those instances arent placebo.
my first dose of Citalopram (Celexa) had me yawning all day at school and just sorta out of it.
and Magnesium Oxide didnt help my sleep, but when i stepped up to Magnesium Citrate i was really relaxed and slept really well too

Ye some corroborative evidence like that is also useful to reassure me .

Vvv

I was on citalopram for like 2 months and it gave me horrible anxiety within an hour of the first time I took it.

The line on these things is that they start affecting your brain right away and so it's not surprising that you would feel them. What takes a month or more is for them to exhibit clinical efficacy as far as treating symptoms.

The first day I started taking sertraline I felt a headchange within the first few hours. Some doctors are just assholes. It takes a long time to find one you like. Get a new one!

euphoria said:

The first day I started taking sertraline I felt a headchange within the first few hours. Some doctors are just assholes. It takes a long time to find one you like. Get a new one!

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The thing is I've had like 2 or 3 at the same practice who have given me the exact same line slike they're just reciting their scripts from the medical book- which they prob are.

Anyhow I don't have to see a doc atm- touch wood, it's just I started taking magnesium and it brought back my old grievances about them form when they told me about that :D.

I think the main thing is it's taught me not to go to them for anything except the worst situations.

Samezies. I had a lot of problems with the same issue you're describing, all the doctors in one practice having that sort of attitude. It was like pulling teeth to actually get a real conversation. All I can say is try going to a different practice or something. The difference can be night and day.

When I tried an ssri I could feel it affecting me after the first dose. But good luck convincing your doctor of that, most of them think they are god and that they are superior to anyone with out a medical degree. If the experiences that you tell them about contradict what their 'god knowledge' tells them, then they'll say that what you experienced can't be real.

Yeah it can be more than just a new doctor you need, in most cases you need a new practice. Ive found that for some reason, if a practice has a shit doc.. they are generally all shit. They often will share the same attitudes and what not also. I had a similar issue a few years back at a local medical clinic which i had to go to a few times and each time was a dif doc and each time i was left speechless at the absolute shit they said and tried to do.

He's technically right -- the immediate efficacy of SSRIs and the ability of magnesium to enhance sleep are both theories that require further controlled testing before they can be considered robust findings that any doctor would feel comfortable affirming to a patient. That said, there's a lot of anecdotal evidence that supports both theories. I don't doubt that both phenomena happen, to some patients, and it's not placebo.

It sounds like you have a doctor who practices cover-your-ass medicine. That is, he's reluctant to answer any question in the affirmative until the scientific community has produced ample, methodologically sound controlled studies that support it. That's very prudent and much in keeping with the scientific principle of parsimony, and your doc will probably keep his ass far away from the scrutinizing eye of the medical licensing boards and the court system, doing as he does.

That said, he doesn't appear to have what separates a good doctor from a great doctor: the willingness to treat the patient, rather than the disease guidelines. A great doctor realizes that controlled studies are all funded by and for the benefit of Big Pharma, and represent trends and likelihoods, not hard and fast absolutes. Studies may show that the vast majority of people do not feel any effects from an SSRI for many weeks, and that most do not find magnesium an effective sleep aid (I take issue with this!). But that does not mean there aren't people who deviate from this response to either drug, and you may be one of them. A great doctor would have told you, in a non patronizing way, that indeed there was a strong possibility that your responses were placebo effects, or caused by something else in your life or your body, but that it was still possible you were an atypical responder. He would have followed up with a warning that if your response became unpleasant or debilitating in any way, you should contact him right away.

Some doctors only want patients who'll do just as they say, without many questions. It's also possible that you rubbed him as the kind of person who isn't very knowledgeable about drugs. He might have felt that you're the type who can't be trusted to have an active decision-making role in his own care, or one for whom deviating from the treatment guidelines represented a liability.

Either way, I think you could do better.