Benzos Valium and Klonopin WD Questions (Higher doses)

For the last 10 days or so I went on benzo binge to quit a 17 yr cigarette old smoking habit because due to finances I am absolutely boned. The good news: I haven't smoked a cig in 10 days. The bad: I got a bit out of control with the benzos and need some guidance and I need it fast.

Essentially it went like this

Day 1: 30 mg Valium to get some in my system for the big quit. (30 total)

Day 2: 20 mg Valium morning and night. (40 total)

Day 3: 20 mg Valium morning and night. (40 total)

Day 4: 20 mg Valium morning and night. (40 total)

Day 5: 20 mg Valium morning and night. (40 total)

Day 6: 20 mg Valium morning and night. (40 total)

Day 7: 20 mg Valium morning and night. (40 total)

Day 8: 30 mg Valium morning. 3 mg Klonopin at night somehow? This is where my mind gets weird of course. No idea how the fuck this day happened. I was probably like yeaaa right on dude.

Day 9: 2 MG Klonopin morning and night (4 MG total)

Day 10: 3 MG Klonopin spaced about 4 hrs apart for 3 MG total. (This is today)

Now the problem.... I have 3 MG Klonopin left. No idea where to go.. connect is out... doc is out... ER is out. Don't you love the things you do on high doses of benzos and just grin about it? Til later? I have moderate benzo tolerance. I just need to know the best course of action and am I in seizure danger range etc.... I can handle a few bad days, but not much else right now. I might be able to get a couple days of herb, but that's about it. What is the best way to spread these final 3 MG?

Above all I need peace of mind as much as possible if any kind souls are out there with similar experiences. I had good intentions with cigs. I am a recovering addict. I wanted it to go about twice as well as this... If I can stay off cigs now I am happy, but I don't want to lose my sanity all week with irrational worries on top of it..

Any help appreciated. Thanks BL. Also any time frame on my brain recalibrating from the abuse?

I think you'll probably be alright. Valium has a long half life and you didn't take it for very long, under 2 weeks. Now, if you had been taking Xanax for 10 days instead of Valium and Klonopin, you'd be more likely to be in trouble. I took Xanax for a week last summer and I'm still suffering for it, over 4 months later. So I really don't think you'll get withdrawal from that amount. And if for some reason you do, you're definitely not in danger of a seizure. If you do end up in benzo withdrawal, you will find tobacco withdrawal pleasurable in comparison. I'd give fucking anything to be able to go back in time to last summer and not take Xanax. I consider it the worst decision I've ever made in my life. But anyway, you should be fine dude. Take care.

PS--The amount of Klonopin you have is not nearly enough for any sort of taper. The right kind of taper cuts 10% of your dose every week or 2 weeks, can't remember which as I've never tapered myself, only read about it. But I would just throw out that extra Klonopin. It's really not going to help you at all. Best case scenario, it doesn't help, worst case scenario it's the little nudge your brain needed to actually go into withdrawal, if that makes sense. Just toss the extra Klonopin--I can't express how bad the withdrawal sucks dude, it's the hardest thing I've ever gone through. Benzos are terrible. The worst of it for me was the first 3 days, and then I was ok for a couple months, and then out of fucking nowhere I got hit with more symptoms that haven't let up in over a month now.

10 days may be nothing or it may be hell. How do you feel? Are you shaky and getting tics? If not, you can probably stop. I would keep the 3mg Klonipin for when wd gets bad... if it does. It is very likely it wont, but if you get any nervous tics or uncontrollably anxious, see a doctor immediately, or better yet, go to the ER.

Trigeminal said:

I think you'll probably be alright. Valium has a long half life and you didn't take it for very long, under 2 weeks. Now, if you had been taking Xanax for 10 days instead of Valium and Klonopin, you'd be more likely to be in trouble. I took Xanax for a week last summer and I'm still suffering for it, over 4 months later. So I really don't think you'll get withdrawal from that amount. And if for some reason you do, you're definitely not in danger of a seizure. If you do end up in benzo withdrawal, you will find tobacco withdrawal pleasurable in comparison. I'd give fucking anything to be able to go back in time to last summer and not take Xanax. I consider it the worst decision I've ever made in my life. But anyway, you should be fine dude. Take care.

PS--The amount of Klonopin you have is not nearly enough for any sort of taper. The right kind of taper cuts 10% of your dose every week or 2 weeks, can't remember which as I've never tapered myself, only read about it. But I would just throw out that extra Klonopin. It's really not going to help you at all. Best case scenario, it doesn't help, worst case scenario it's the little nudge your brain needed to actually go into withdrawal, if that makes sense. Just toss the extra Klonopin--I can't express how bad the withdrawal sucks dude, it's the hardest thing I've ever gone through. Benzos are terrible. The worst of it for me was the first 3 days, and then I was ok for a couple months, and then out of fucking nowhere I got hit with more symptoms that haven't let up in over a month now.

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Wow, suffering months after a single week of Xanax use? I have to ask, had you had physical dependencies on benzos prior to that which would have accelerated your development of dependency (and thus withdrawal symptoms upon cessation) this past time? While I find I become physically dependent on opioids faster every time I build up a new habit after letting my tolerance reset, dependence upon GABA drugs like benzos or alcohol require more work for me to develop than I've ever put in. I took 10-20 mg diazepam and 2-4 mg alprazolam every day for 18 months and quit cold turkey without noticing a thing in the way of withdrawal symptoms--not even insomnia. Everyone's chemistry is different, but I think you'd agree ours is an extreme case of personal variance. Benzo withdrawal is worse than opioid withdrawal no doubt, but it takes a lot more use to become dependent on benzos, in my experience anyway. I don't mind dealing with the former to reset my tolerance every once in a while, but I hope to never encounter the latter.

As for the OP, I wouldn't expect any WDS at all following that binge. You say you have a moderate tolerance, though. How consistent was your use prior to the binge to develop that tolerance? If you've never noticed WDS in the past following two or three days of abstinence, I would seriously doubt you'd experience any after this binge.

^ yeah, months of WD for just a week of alprazolam sounds like bullshit to me, no offence. Not unless you had abused benzos previously.

To the OP - you know that these doses you're using are objectively very large doses, right? When I got some diazepam from an addiction specialist to help me get off buprenorphine he prescribed 4mg diazepam daily. You started on ten times as much. And why the fuck would you use benzos to get off cigarrettes? That's like using methamphetamine to get off coffee.

Either way I think you'll be ok. You should simply stop altogether. If you are finding that tough after a few days (when the stuff leaves your system - diazepam and klonazepam are both long acting) then start back up on a TINY daily dose. Say 2-4mg diazepam or the equivalent in klonopin. Benzos are totally inappropriate for nicotine withdrawal and you are using extravagantly high doses.

Wow, suffering months after a single week of Xanax use? I have to ask, had you had physical dependencies on benzos prior to that which would have accelerated your development of dependency (and thus withdrawal symptoms upon cessation) this past time? While I find I become physically dependent on opioids faster every time I build up a new habit after letting my tolerance reset, dependence upon GABA drugs like benzos or alcohol require more work for me to develop than I've ever put in. I took 10-20 mg diazepam and 2-4 mg alprazolam every day for 18 months and quit cold turkey without noticing a thing in the way of withdrawal symptoms--not even insomnia. Everyone's chemistry is different, but I think you'd agree ours is an extreme case of personal variance. Benzo withdrawal is worse than opioid withdrawal no doubt, but it takes a lot more use to become dependent on benzos, in my experience anyway. I don't mind dealing with the former to reset my tolerance every once in a while, but I hope to never encounter the latter.

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Yea dude, it really sucks, I can't explain how it happened. For whatever reason I was just highly susceptible to it. I had never been addicted to benzodiazepines previously (although I have abused them plenty of times before last summer).

^ yeah, months of WD for just a week of alprazolam sounds like bullshit to me, no offence. Not unless you had abused benzos previously

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Yea, because I'm making up depersonalization, insomnia, rapid heartbeat, biting my lips until they bleed, and panic attacks, that all magically started right after I stopped taking benzos. Fuck you, no offense.

Oh and I forgot to add - you should look into Wellbutrin/Zyban (bupropion). I had a MASSIVE nicotine habit until about a month ago. And I used snues tobacco, not cigarrettes. Snues is much, much stronger and more addictive, and you use alot more of it daily because it's smokeless. I found that after starting bupropion I actually desired it less. And this is one of the indications of bupropion.

That would be way better than a benzo.

Trigeminal said:

Yea dude, it really sucks, I can't explain how it happened. For whatever reason I was just highly susceptible to it. I had never been addicted to benzodiazepines previously (although I have abused them plenty of times before last summer).

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I believe you, but to me it almost seems like some sort of bad reaction, or the cessation of primary effects left you vulnerable at a time that opened the door for an otherwise uncharacteristic extreme depressive slump? No offense, I buy that alprazolam was the culprit, and while your symptoms sound like GABA WDS, is it possible the after-effects were indirectly related? It's rather remarkable.

Thanls

Thanks a lot for the replies.

Long reply for those wondering:

Now that I've made it a week I'm confident I can make it 18 months again and beyond quit free just like before my life fell to pieces this March.... now to those saying it's a terrible idea etc etc I need to defend myself. I just don't believe newer shit like Chantix is any safer. I know cold turkey is the way to go for smoking and in my mind (since anxiety is my biggest smoking trigger) it greatly helps me feel like if I don't have a cigarette I will not lose my mind. Anything is worth trying. I can't see the comparison to meth having any validity whatsoever. Additionally I just do not feel less than 10 MG of valium for shit and that's under normal circumstances. I bet i could have gotten away with 15 MG x 2 instead of 20 x 2 but that's wanting to get all fucked up because it's who I am and why I try to avoid drugs.

Let's face it I'm an addict... 15 yrs of smoking, insomnia, dependency issues, opiates, benzos, somas, sleeping aids......anxiety you name it. I had quit everything finally but towards the end I started smoking cigs again and it's been killing me for months and months that I ever did and been nearly impossible to quit due to nerves and isolation and boredom. *Psychologically* I've been as addicted to cigs as it can get. It's still hard and rivaled how I felt about railing Oxycontin - HONESTLY bad. Maybe it was starting at 12 yrs old.. all I know is it's BAD and won't be easier soon in all likelihood, but I have a week under my belt thankfully. I know that quitting is rough for anyone (primarily psychologically, physical is pussy shit relative to most drugs), but I believe in degrees psychologically. My mom can smoke 5 cigs a day and be ok. I have to smoke 30-40 or 0. Nothing in between works, period. It's just torture beyond reason. So that's part of why Valium to quit....

Add to that that in the last 7 months I lost my fiancee of 5 years who I to this day love deeply and will never get back for my actions on drugs, dropped out of college as a functioning addict with a 3.83 about 45 % through college, living back home in a 650 sq ft house with no ability to drive, no running water, visual impaired hence I can't drive out in the mountains five miles away being the closest town with no buses available and 16 bucks per way in a cab. My mom is a neurotic mess who can't maintain decency or compose herself with myself or my grandma (and is under a shit load of stress obviously because who wouldn't love caring for their parent in that state, but I still can't handle it) won't help herself let alone me and my grandma has Alzheimer and asks the same question every 10 seconds, which is enough to wanna put a gun inside my mouth. My mom can't get IHSS because of legal mistakes from 20 years ago she had nothing to do with.

I also have chronic anxiety and on good weeks I'm sometimes up for 2-4 days with 1 night of sleep and 0 naps and when I say no naps I MEAN it. I have been doing all of this med free 90 % of the time. This has gone on for years and I have never had a doc who gives a shit enough to give me proper meds + I am an addict so it's not all their fault.

To make matters worse his week our car broke - the engine. We have no savings to replace it and after this (all this week mind you) I have just been told I am to stop receiving my checks which was the only way I was eating or buying essentials like a belt so my pants don't fall down. Finally, I am stuck in this room 99 % of the time circumstantially. Elaborating is probably not necessary here, but the only time I ever get out is for a 20 minute walk on our road far away from civilization. No human contact is rough.

Short answer:

Desperate times + addiction = this situation. Simply put, I could not fail and a part of me wanted to get high, but honestly 40 mg valium hardly floors me and it was 20 mg 8 hours apart, not all at once. It just makes me wobbly and not wanna move much and kinda feel like aw what the fuck who needs a cigarette that bad - a good thing for quit anxiety. I actually think his is better than all the anti smoke aids on the market and don't get me started on the sham of NRTs.

Now that I've made it a week I'm confident I can make it 18 months again and beyond quit free just like before my life fell to pieces and stop wasting 240 a month and figure out how to eat.... now to those saying it's a terrible idea etc etc I need to defend myself. I just don't believe newer shit like Chantix is any safer. If anything I'd choose nothing besides this newer shit. I know cold turkey is the way to go for smoking and in my mind (since anxiety is my biggest smoking trigger) it greatly helps me feel like if I don't have a cigarette I will not lose my mind. The difference for me has been night and day, Additionally I just do not feel less than 10 MG of valium for shit and that's under normal circumstances. I bet i could have gotten away with 15 MG x 2 instead of 20 x 2 but that's the part of me that wants to get fucked up. All in all I'd say it was brilliant for quitting (if you're an anxious smoker). It made it AT LEAST twice as easy as prior attempts - maybe more - and that's smoking from age 12 to 27 and 28-29 1-2 packs/day. Any cancer is also a tad worse than a couple weeks of benzos..whereas meth is seriously fucked in that one poster's comparison.

Anyway I am almost 29 and I would love to get my life back and this is step one ($240 USD a month ouch - I can eat on that and hopefully get food stamps in January to help while I get job/school). Step two is figuring out how to make money in an isolated area with no public transportation or any friends and a visual impairment that prevents me from driving. I thank everyone so much for the help because my mind is very much at ease in regards to the benzos even if it end up makes me depressed a bit (I was already bottomed out here). I came here to sober up in July and get my life together and so far so bad. Any advice would greatly be appreciated. I wasn't gonna respond, but people asked and well I really need ideas for making money under these circumstances so what the f. Also no family to speak of besides mom/grandma. Literally zero. I know a lot of the world can't even afford to eat and I respect that, but as for America, like so many, I am fucked and I have no where to turn even though I am intelligent and have what it takes to be great aside from some initial shyness.

I am not planning on using drugs ever again. Been clean 80 % since March. Bout the only good thing I can say even if not perfect. I could hate myself for the past five years, but it is completely and utterly futile to think about the thousands I could have saved right now. Anyway BLers kick ass. Thanks for the advice guys. I love how it is here. Any advice would be welcome lol.

Forgot to add - smoking cigarettes to me is as bad and worse as any drug out there. It's costly, an emotional crutch. Does nothing good for anybody, makes anxiety worse, disastrous health effects later and sometimes earlier. I have to quit to feel truly confident and clean and a whole human being again - it's always been my pacifier and I'm doomed for life or I get rid of it (this is just my internalization and I respect any other thoughts on it). Wish me luck. It's still a challenge for awhile even after that first week, but I did it before and I can do it again.

Thanks a lot again guys. I'm gonna get some rest and continue recovery. My one upside is I have a few more weeks off before shit gets real and I intend to use it. Just don't know how HOW when I may not even be feeling remotely well for some time still with all the aforementioned problems. The depression and insomnia crippling. I've slept on avg 3-4 hr/ night every sober night like 150 nights sober in the last 6 months and 1 month like a log on Valium a bit back. It makes me feel like I'm 4 again in regards to sleep. I wish there was no tolerance or long term damage. Life sucks =/

Oh and my doc is very anti SSRI. I don't believe in their effectiveness either. I had to argue with him to get Valium upped once at night from 5-10 mg. I can understand that. Just mentioning it because this IS my only doctor for maybe 5 months once every 4-6 weeks if lucky uninsured so it has to count and it's obvious he is not a pill pusher. He's also written me a scrip for some tricyclic antidepressant I can still fill- it's called Silenor (Doepin) for sleep (he said it's related to Valium) or something of that nature.... sorry tired. Night maybe.. the med does sound promising... it's just new.

Any thoughts on Doxepin for my insomnia and my current issue. Safe? Dependency?

It's always fun walking the tight rope with drug addiction and needing genuine help and of course never telling doctors you have issues... I'd love to just be honest, but that's a joke. Of course there can never be middle ground... My problem was originally pain and painkillers, but I have a seriously impulsive addictive personality. Gotta deal w/ it. It obviously seeps into anything with abuse potential so I am very interested in Doxepin 2-3 nights a week for sleep if anyone has had success.