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NEWS: JJJ 28-02-03; Major Brian Watters recommends compulsory rehab for users

phase_dancer

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Major Brian Watters recommends compulsory rehab for users.
The prime minister’s chief drug advisor, Major Brian Watters from the Salvation Army, has said he believes all drug users should be forced into rehab, and that the diversionary court system should be compulsory
Interesting to note what perspective he is speaking from. I’m sure most of what he and the Salvo’s see are the worst examples of drug abuse. He mentioned a case of a girl who prostituted herself, is in and out of hospitals etc. While this is probably quite representative of the severe heroin and speed related problems they regularly face, his policy doesn’t seem to distinguish between recreational use and hard abusers.
What sort of policy would he suggest for the weekend or monthly ecstasy user? There seems to be no distinction between classes of drugs, let alone class of user. Imagine how many monthly users would be “reformed” after spending 3 weeks in rehab ;)
Still, it is surprising how many of the aired phone-in comments on JJJ seemed supportive of this idea
 
IMHO rehab is only going to help those that want to be helped or believe that they really do have a problem.
How many cases do you hear of where people are sent to rehab under duress and come out clean as a whistle only to repeat offence shortly after?
I have heard many opinions expressed by people over the years on drug use, and some of the harshest and most unrealistic are from people that have never tried any sort of illegal chem themselves, but feel they are an authority on them either way.
I can almost garuntee that most of the callers that rang in favour of compulsory rehab for users, were just like these people.
I cant imagine it ever going ahead, can you imagine the money it would cost to send every person caught on minor drug offences into rehab?
Rehab for weekly/monthly users would be quite similar to a bluelight meet up wouldnt it?
:)
 
ummm... how does he think he's going to find all these drug users? the only ones he's ever likely to see are the ones in the worst way, and for these kinds of heavy users compulsory rehab is probably not a bad idea. the problem, as pointed out, is that most people who use drugs only use them every so often.
some of my friends use drugs, but they don't need rehab...
 
Major Brian Watters is a big reason why the National Illicit Drug Campaign reads, "when you get into drugs, talk to your parents, and they'll tell you to stop" instead of "when you get into trouble with drugs, talk to your parents, and they'll help you". Obviously that ties directly into J Howards views, and his glorification of USA's policies on drugs, war and umm.. probably everything, but Major Watters was the chair of the advisory committee developed for the NIDC, and as such shut the gate on anything resembling harm reduction so that the only reports that Mr Howard received from the committee was the zero tolerance stuff. Mind you, I'm not sure that anything would have changed Howard's approach to the NIDC, but it IS interesting that the pro harm minimisation people on the committee were sacked, without warning, immediately before the launch of the campaign.
I guess that's a little off track, but Major Brian Watters comes from a background where any level of drug use is considered problem useage. From that point of view, his recommendation makes sense. Of course in the real world...
I also will hazard a guess that the phone calls which gave support to this idea were motivated by a perception that "drug users" equals heroin addicts and such that COULD benefit from rehab. In addition, they are really only talking about "all" drug users who are caught in possesion, or stealing etc. (the ones who have been intercepted by law enforcement)...
 
how do you rehabilitate an pill muncher anyway????? do you lock them in a room with nothing but a cassette player and a stack of bon jovi and spice girls tapes?? What about a good dose of councelling sessions, that might work ' Hello my name is john and im a pill muncher, it's been 3 weeks since my last rave' cue applause, 'lets all thank john for sharing.' nope no joy there. The only way i can think of that would really work for a pill muncher would be to delete all the phone numbers from their mobile phone, nah that wouldnt work either i know ive memorised the important ones.
any ideas????
JoKeR. :D
 
Major Brian Watters . What a joke. Its a shame and a bewilderment that he is in the position that he is in. I can still remember the total blindness and pigheadedness that was portrayed on the ABC program (which of course I forget the name of heh) which showed that he has little grasp of the real world beyond his obvious biases from his Salvation Army beliefs.
Why doesn't the PM wake up to the fact that this guy is still there doing this much harm? Answer: Politics.
 
Bah, this is so foolish I don't know where to start...I support rehab as an alternative to custodial sentencing, but not enforced rehab. This idea just proves how out of touch Major Watters is with the rest of the clinicians working in substance rehab, as everyone else knows you can't force a person to be rehabilitated. It doesn't surprise me though, given that this guy almost singlehandedly stopped the Heroin Injecting Rooms Trial.
I say Major Watters? Major Arsehole!
(Sorry, I couldn't resist!)
 
after having recently done the drink driving course for a very minor offence to keep my lisence I have learn't
ALCOHOL IS A DRUG!!
Does this mean everyone that drinks or smokes or has sex to release endorphines(spelling) should also be put in rehab.
how about adreniline junkies or chocoholics.
I give to the salvos as often as i can for my own reasons however i think the major needs to realise the world is changing everyday and generalising will only land you in deeper poop.
[ 28 February 2003: Message edited by: doodie ]
 
Read The Starvation Army- Twelve Reasons To Reject The Salvation Army. Its a booklet produced by Scam Publications and you will find it in anarchist bookshops.
You will never give to the Salvos again. I refuse to even go there for food parcels.
 
More on this from http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2003/02/28/1046407750845.html:
March 1 2003
By Sharon Mathieson
Canberra
The Prime Minister's senior drug adviser has proposed new laws that would allow drug addicts to be detained against their will and forced to dry out.
Major Brian Watters, chairman of the Australian National Council on Drugs, yesterday said families should be able to seek help for children and relatives whose drug addictions were out of control.
"I would expect it should be a similar process (to) that (which) is being used in the mental hospital where a person can be put into protective custody and able to undergo treatment in a facility that they can't walk out of," he said. "There's a popular belief that you can't help somebody unless they really want to be helped. But the truth is almost every serious drug addict I've ever spoken to has said they'd like to stop."
Major Watters said the idea to force drug addicts to be locked up to undergo treatment was sparked when he had a phone call from a distraught mother whose drug-addicted daughter was constantly in and out of hospital with disease and overdoses. "The mother pleaded with me, 'Isn't there some way we can make her go to treatment?'," he said. "And I believe there should be."
Major Watters said addicts were incapable of making the decision to dry out but if it was forced on them lives would be saved. "This is not an uncompassionate suggestion," he said. "It's trying to help people and save people's lives."
Victorian drug user support group Vivaids yesterday opposed the scheme, which Major Watters has already proposed to Justice Minister Chris Ellison.
Vivaids manager Jill Meade said there was no evidence that forcing people to have treatment was any more effective than not forcing them, and that people often reacted negatively when forced to do something.
"This is about forcing people to have treatment and people have treatment choices and people have rights," she said.
Senator Ellison said last night that he believed diversionary programs, which oblige defendants in drug-related criminal cases to choose treatment or punishment, already offered a measure of compulsion.
But the Commonwealth did not have the jurisdiction to enact laws for the compulsory detention and treatment of drug users generally, he said.
Major Watters said he would be happy to discuss the idea with Mr Howard and hoped Senator Ellison would raise it with the Government. "I would hope that somewhere along the line we might be able to overcome this idea that you're imposing on people's civil rights, you're uncompassionate and you're trying to take a hard line, because no one would say that if you're dealing with a seriously mentally ill person," he said.
Labor justice spokesman Daryl Melham slammed Major Watters' idea, saying it was counterproductive and would threaten the hard-won gains in Australian public health. "This simplistic approach just won't work . . . Major Watters is trapped in a policy time warp," he said.
Mr Melham said the United Nations' HIV/AIDS program had condemned countries such as China for locking up drug users.
"Not only does Major Watters' idea make a mockery of our international obligations to respect human rights, it also does not make any sense," he said.
- with Annabel Crabb and Andra Jackson
Now I feel the need to explain the rationale behind involuntary detention of the mentally ill, as Mjr. Watter's uses this example to support his argument. Involuntary detention of persons with a mental illness is carefull controlled, and only used in more extreme circumstances. Having said that, it is commonly used, but that says more about the nature of certain mental illnesses than it does about our system.
Basically, in Victoria, 5 criteria must be met before a person with MI is involuntarily detained. One of these (I won't go into all of them) is that because of the persons MI they are a risk to themselves or others. If you applied that criteria to a drug user, well you would have to lock up every drug user and every alcohol drinker, because potentially each time you use either could put you at risk. Basically, the risk here is chronic, not acute, so how would you know who to lock up and who to leave on the street?
In addition, the nature of certain MI's often means the person does not realise they are unwell. This can be true for both mood disorders and psychotic disorders. Often, it is actually more humane to be able to treat such a person without their consent, than it is to leave them suffering. Also, the illness may effect the individuals judgement to the point where they can not make rational decisions about their behaviour or need for treatment.
Clearly, the two instances (detention of persons with MI vs. those with substance abuse) are poles apart, and for Mjr. Watter's to compare the two just displays his ignorance on the issue. *sighs*
 
I’m pleased this issue has stimulated such emotional responses. For the reasons outlined in the above posts, I feel this proposal is unlikely to get much approval. But I’m continually amazed as to how Major Watters is still in this position of advising the PM.
His comments are usually at odds with academic opinion, and for want of a better description, often resemble the ramblings of Pauline Hanson. To have some credibility with such recommendations you must have had something of a broad real life experience, or at least be coming from a well educated perspective.
babydoc_vic said:
One of these ...is that because of the persons MI they are a risk to themselves or others.
I’ve heard this why some psychologists choose to work outside of the system. As I understand it, if a patient tells a registered therapist they have had any suicidal thoughts, this instantly meets the criterion, and is required to be reported.
In the past I’ve known of people who were forced into psychiatric care for 2-3 weeks because of statements made by relatives/friends, but I have no idea how this works today. Is evaluation/assessment for involuntary detention uniform throughout Australia?
 
the research into the "failure" (if your goal is to get everyone off drugs, which mine certainly isn't) of enforced detox is very well doumented, regardless of what drug we're talking about. "treatment" research inevitabvly lists a commitment on the part of the individual to their regime as the number one factor in outcomes. so its not just your humble opinion, Dvah, it is well supported by the evidence.
OK, a few issues.
(i)The NSW drug Court generally offer users the option of an "Intensive Corrections Order" or a custodial sentence. You are only eligible to participate in the drug court for non-violent crimes that stem directly from your drug use. These are often the crimes that people were not getting custodial sentences for in the past, so more users are actually doing time now, as a result of (ii)
(ii) With many terms of the ICO, a custodial sentence remains hanging over your head until you have fully completed it. "breaking" the ICO includes passing a Positive urine screen. What this means is that if a user uses 6 months into a 12 month ICO, they can then be forced to do the 12 months inside, so their total involvement with Corrections is now 18 months.
Given that the Drug Court only reports a 2% "success rate" (success being defined as no evidence of drug use over a 12 month period) - which they call "graduating" - their is little motivation for taking up an ICO. So more users do more time.
(iii) the presence in a detox of users who do not want to get off, and who are often able to get drugs inside, makes it very difficult for users in the centre who are committed to their withdrawal. In Victoria, Odyssey House, which takes a lot of ICOs, is regarded by many as a great place to make contacts, and not the hardest place in the world to get on.
(iv) at root, what we are really talking about here, is imprisonment, do not be fooled. it is the enforced removal of liberty, and no different in spirit to the live-fire drug war currently taking place in Thailand, where users have the effective choice of "detox" or being murdered. 60000!! heroin and methamphetamine users have been forced to turn themselves in. we can be sure that the "treatment" will be brutal and torurous - they simply do not have the resources to provide an effective medical withdrawal for this number of users.
While this is probably just Watters banging his drum (or tambourine, as the case many be), and is unlikely to get through the bureaucracy, it would be a mistake to underestimate his influence with the PM.
And while he is a retired Major in the Salvos, it would be a mistake to think that his views are not widely held in that organisation.
Don't give to the Salvos!
[ 04 March 2003: Message edited by: mibrane ]
 
phase_dancer asked:
Is evaluation/assessment for involuntary detention uniform throughout Australia? No, it isn't. For example, it is more diificult to treat someone as an involuntary patient in NSW thn in other states. In NSW, a person must be taken before a magistrate, after being reviewed first by a Dr, then a psychiatrist. See here for more. In Vic, no magistrate is required, only 1 Dr (who can be a junior Dr) to recommend the patient and a psychiatrist to uphold the recommendation.
The QLD Mental Health Act requirements for involuntary detention are much the same as Victoria. SA also requires medical staff to order the detention, see here. but has more limits on time spent in hospital than Victoria.
Re:
As I understand it, if a patient tells a registered therapist they have had any suicidal thoughts, this instantly meets the criterion, and is required to be reported. There is no requirment for mandatory reporting of suicidal ideation to a mental health service in Victoria - I am not sure about other states but to be honest I doubt it. Also, suicidal ideation alone is not adequate criteria for involuntary detention (this is where it gets a bit clinical). Basically, the person would have to be meet all the criteria for detnetion prior to being detained. This would require an assessment of actual risk of a person making a suicide attempt, preferably performed by a clinician trained in this process.
[ 04 March 2003: Message edited by: babydoc_vic ]
 
Yes...well done Brian. Lock 'em all up and throw away the key.
It's funny how the un-evolved resort to blind ignorance to deal with issues.
Too much Army for the Major.......Yes Sir !
 
may be we should all tell the senile old c*#t to fuck-off. what the fuck is he trying to preach.
every friday evening across sydney the 'salvos' come into pubs and clubs and solicite for a donation. no problemo.
they can take money off drug users (beer drinkers)with a smile and without conscience. yet according to their chief we need rehab. fuck-off.
sounds like watters needs a tad of rehab himself....to try and rid himself of his abject ignorance and double standards.
anyway....god bless the salvos.. :)
 
Thanks for the info and links babydoc_vic.
In relation to Victoria, I must admit the idea of having a Junior Dr making an initial assessment doesn't sit all that well. The inabilities of a couple of hospital interns have left marks on this family. These were not MI related incidents, but rather the results of decisions and actions made in emergency and during general hospitalisation.
All I can say is one would hope any confirming psychiatrist was a completely independent body.
I don't wish to sound critical of hospital and ER staff in general. The range of problems faced is immense and I'm sure it would be impossible to be an expert in every area. Our eldest was born with severe gastroskesis. If it wasn't for hospital staff and the fact the amazing liver transplant specialist Dr Ong was filling in that night, he surely would never have survived.
Still it is rather surprising criteria for involuntary detention differs so much across Australia. I wonder what statistical variations could be drawn between the states.
 
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