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anti-d's

Doody

Doody

Bluelighter
Joined
Oct 19, 2002
Messages
43
i read in a thread somewhere that taking certain anit-d's can minulmise the effect of mdma..a friend is taking these and on some occasions has told me they didnt really feel the pill at all..is there any way possible to actually feel the pill while on these...besides stop taking the anti-d's...any info or any actually first hand knoweldge would be greatly appreciated..
 
I hope your friends aren't taking anti-depressants with MAO inhibitors (eg. fluoxetine).
MDMA stimulates the release of serotonin, blocks its reuptake and inhibits monoamine oxidase (MAO) which is the substance that break down serotonin normally. ie. MDMA is a very powerful MAO inhibitor, much more powerful then anti-d medicine out there which also work by inhibiting MAO. If you combine them, you are in danger of a severe case of serotonin syndrome, which means you have too much serotonin in your brain and nothing to break it down with. I've had it and it's quite scarry especially if you know you are having it and panic. If I was not at home and had no access to a cold shower, my temp at 40C wouldn't have stopped.
 
This is a commonly asked question here on Bluelight and depending on what antidepressants your friend is taking can be a quite dangerous to mix with MDMA.
Check the Health Q&A forum and some of the FAQ's such as:
FAQ: Antidepressants and Recreational Drugs (long!)
SSRI's and Ecstasy: The Final Word (Hopefully)
Some antidepressants (ssri's) will make the effects of MDMA barely noticeable and even stopping taking your medication, strongly advised against, a week before will not make any noticeable difference. If someone is in need of medication for a depression problem taking MDMA is not recommended as both their medication and MDMA works on the same part of the brains chemistry. It can be a potentially dangerous combination and can leave you in a worse state of depression than when you started.
There is plenty of information to be found on Bluelight about this if you look for it and plenty of knowledgeable bluelighters with better responses than me.
 
I don't think it's advisable to use any form of recreational drug when one is on medication.
This FAQ is on MAOI's (Aurorix, a commonly used anti-d for ADHD in Australia)
I actually quit my Aurorix as it was a chocie of either them or eccies. (I have ADHD)
http://www.paihdelinkki.fi/english/faq/faq_aineet_11e.htm
What are the risks of combined use of ecstasy and antidepressants?
In drug user circles there are different views on how the effects of drugs could be enhanced. According to one of these views, boosters i.e. antidepressant medicines (especially the MAO (monoamine oxidase) enzyme inhibitor Aurorix) would strengthen the effect of ecstasy. However, the combination of the two has proven fatal, as it easily induces a state of poisoning known as serotonin syndrome which can lead to death.
In Finland, the deaths related to the use of ecstasy have been caused precisely by the combined use of ecstasy and antidepressants. The use of boosters in connection with ecstasy and other amphetamine derivatives is, in other words, a lethal combination and one you should not try.
The effects of ecstasy are caused by the body’s neural transmitters. Ecstasy releases monoamines from the nerve endings of the brain and inhibits their reuptake. A large amount of transmitters, especially serotonin, that is released into one’s system causes the desired effects in the user’s central nervous system, while at the same time depleting the monoamine stores of the body.
What happens when the amphetamine derivative ecstasy is combined with the antidepressant Aurorix?
The synaptic cleft is a place between two neurons where nerve impulses are transferred from one nerve cell to another via the transmitter. Ecstasy adds dopamine and serotonin into the cleft from the nerve endings of the brain while and at the same time blocking the exit pathway of the synaptic cleft. Simultaneously, the MAO inhibitor Aurorix prevents the functions of the enzymes that destroy both serotonin and amphetamines, eliminating the last possibility the body has to fight the serotonin flood.
In other words, when the two substances are used simultaneously a risk of death is present. As the amount of amphetamine increases in one’s system (“taps into the synaptic cleft opened”), the Aurorix prevents the functions of the MAO enzyme (set to destroy serotonin and amphetamines) and blocks the exit pathway of the synaptic cleft (“exit plugged”). Extreme caution should be taken with boosters.
The risks of ecstasy:
Ecstasy should not be used often because one’s transmitter stores require time to replenish. A constant depletion could lead to depression. The view that antidepressants that raise serotinin levels would protect the serotonin nerves against the destructive elements of ecstasy has not been supported in studies. Ecstasy is a neurotoxin. As little as 20 times its use has been shown to decrease the user’s ability to remember, learn, think logically and deduce. Other possible side effects or risks from occasional use are panic, nausea or a state of confusion. Using ecstasy more frequently and in larger amounts increases the risk of long-term, possibly irreversible changes to the brain.
The experts:
Pekka Laine
Doctor of Medical Science, specialist in psychiatry, addiction medicine doctor, University of Oulu
Erkki Vuori
Professor, Department of Forensic Medicine, University of Helsinki
Sources:
Markowitz JS, Patrick KS. Pharmacokinetic and pharmacodynamic drug interactions in the treatment of attention-deficit hyperactivity disorder. Clin Pharmacokinet. 2001;40(10):753-72.
 
Not wanting to discount the importance of the above information, but the guy didn't actually mention moclobemide, and in fact is probably on an SSRI or SNRI as Doody said his friend can't feel the effects of MDMA. Moclobemide isn't usually a first line anti-depressant either. Adding all this stuff on moclobemide is probably confusing the fuck out of Doody. :\
Runner: fluoxetine is NOT a MAOI, it is an SSRI.
 
Babydoc: you are of course quite right, fluoxetine is an SSRI. I fucked up grabbed the first name I saw from
here</a>
and
here
Thanx :)
[ 08 January 2003: Message edited by: Runner ]
 
Right you are babydoc.
Just wanted to get some information about what can happen with MAOI (even reversible ones) and MDMA... too often I hear people make blanket generalisations like "antidepressants just stop you feeling as loved up and they dull the MDMA" which leads to people taking higher doses of MDMA to try and over come that.
I think people need to understand that not all antidepressants are SSRIs, and they're not all benign when combined with MDMA.
BigTrancer :)
 
hey thanks for all the info guys...was much appreciated...am going to read up on it a bit more..and the actual name of them was 'arapax'...i think...but thanks...
 
Aropax = Paroxetine.
Aropax belongs to a group of medicines called selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors (SSRIs).
BigTrancer :)
 
Hey Doody
I've been on Aropax (paxil an SSRI) for 2 months and have rolled twice during that time, I still have one lolly and have no problems. I don't 'peak' quite as high but still feel the classic MDMA effects. I'm only on 20mg a day, some days only 10mg which might make a difference.
The bonus of being on Aropax is that I have NO comedown!!!!!
Its been said that SSRI's will reduce the effects of MDMA, for which I would agree. Some say that they will totally eliminate the effects so that a lolly is a complete waste of money, this may be true of some persons but I tend to think that it depends on the person, the dose of medication etc that they are on.
Cheers
[ 12 January 2003: Message edited by: MrsSuspicious ]
 
hey thanks MrsSuspicious...first hand knowlege was really what i was after...tanks heaps...
 
I know a few people on SSRI's and they don't get squat, even off a lot more than their previous doasage.
 
Yep, when I was on Prozac (fluoxetine), I took 450 mg and felt NOTHING.
[edit - irrelevant information deleted]
[ 13 January 2003: Message edited by: apollo ]
 
Prozac is also a SSRI if I remember correctly. Prozac can decrease the effects of comedown, but MUST be taken as you start coming down. Prozac will prevent the seretonin from being reabsorbed into the seretonin cell therefore making the comedown smoother and les dramatic.
If prozac is taken b4 an MDMA pill it will block the uptake cells which are used by MDMA as a gateway into the seretonin cell. It is also found that these uptake cells (while only one-way) release seretonin into your synapses while under the influence of MDMA.
Prozac has a half life of approx 30 hrs, so leave a week preferably two between your last dose of prozac and a bikkie
 
several months ago i was on ssri's briefly for stress management.. i didn't know they stopped e working and 'rolled' a few times before i figured it out..
because i'd just started on the anti-d's the pills worked.. and there was no comedown: i felt high for a week. after a/b the third time nothing happened + i figured out it was a waste of time..
i went on a two-month break from e, stopping the ssri's a/b halfway thru.
now when i take e it just isn't the same. it keeps me awake and i feel good, but not properly 'rollin'.
help! have i permanently altered my brain chemistry so that ecstacy will never feel the smae again? I sincerely hope not!!! any advice from people who've been here?
 
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