if they wanted to, they could . . .

the post on sniffer dogs got me thinking . . .
if the law enforcement agencies really wanted to fuck off ecstasy, why dont they do regular raids at nightclubs every week? . . .
where i live, theres pretty much one nightclub where 90% of the people are pillin' . . . if a police group walked in with a sniffer dog, they would have a field day . . . not to mention all the people dealing outside the club, and all around that block . . .
i really dont understand . . . they could easily (i think) half (or even more) ecstasy use in my city, but they simply dont bother . . .
is it a question of resources? . . . money? . . . or is there something darker here? . . .
perhaps this particular club has decided to "do a deal" with the police (who are, incidently, based about 1.5 minutes walk away) . . . without the trippers and pillers and freaks etc this club would most likely be out of business . . . no one goes there to drink (the pubs are about 10 seconds away anyway), and its quite obvious they know who their clientele are . . .
ive seen more ambulances there than police cars . . .
i found it amazing that the so called "tough" stance on drug enforcement is, in reality, a pathetic display of laziness and hypocrisy . . .
perhaps the police -have- finally got it, though . . . maybe, just maybe, that if they arent at a club busting my arse for having a pill on me, they are at someones house stopping domestic violence, sexual assault, or anything else for that matter . . .
. . . because we all know responsible use of drugs is not a crime, and no money should be spent by any of our state governments to stop recreational use . . . its a waste of money, time, and prison cells . . .
so, in conclusion, perhaps the local police culture has actually realised this - they realise their efforts regading drug enforcment are in vain, and their time is better spent elsewhere . . . but i bet they dont tell their superiors this . . .
what are your thoughts? . . .
peace and blessed be . . .
crow011 . . .

Mate the police are not after some small time club with a few hundred pillers and a few guys selling say 50-100 pills in a night!.
The tough stand on drugs is in a much larger scale 50-100KG so the drugs never get to the street so to speak.
And the answer to your other questions is YES why bother wasting money and resources in a small time club.
I don't feel there is a darker/underground theory here ???? anyone else know differently ?

Yeh....The police are not interested in your small time dealer dealing to patrons of a club.
Drug bust operations are costly, and timely and this is why, if drug squads are going to do it, they make sure they do it right.
They will start at the top and work thier way down, knowing that if they can get the major drug suppliers, this will filter down and effect the guys that are dealing in clubs as availabilty issues will then arise...
Well...Im sure this is the theory anyway, but In my opinion, any drugs that are seized in an operation seem to end up back on the streets anyway.
Work that one out.

if they did busts at clubs every week, no one would go there and pills would be taken elsewhere. its very costly and a lot of effort, it might work the first few times, but then people will just make sure they go to more underground events or have pills at other places; it wouldnt effect use much at all.

All very valid points, but lets face it - if the police/government REALLY wanted to put a stop to drugs they could. But the truth is they need the war on drugs, its perfect for making it look like the government is doing more for you than they are.
A 100kg bust isn't going to put a dent in the drug trade but when they tell us it had an inflated street value of $100 million Joe Worker can feel his taxes are justified.
There are extreme measures which could be adopted if it were in their genuine interests to stamp out drugs, but the truth is that its not.

This aproach assumes that the only people that use ecstasy do so in clubs. Which is so far from the truth it's not even funny...

Yes, for THIS approach. But not every extreme measure which the police/government could adopt if they REALLY wanted to stamp out drugs.
Even this approach would work if the police leant on every clubber found with pills, eventually some rats would squeal.

It's called zero tolerance, and no it doesn't work. Read the news a couple of days ago? They're going to execute and Australian woman caught trafficking drugs in Vietnam.
As the last line of the story says, they executed 55 people last year, so of course we only here about this woman because she is Australian.
55 a year. That sounds like they are taking it seriously, hey? But still people are caught, still people do drugs there. What does that tell you?

ok, ok . . .
ask a stupid question . . .
peace and blessed be . . .
crow011 . . .

If people are committed to an act more than those who oppose it are committed to stopping that act, then it is only a matter of time before that act loses social stigma, and eventually becomes legally permissable.
The war on drugs is unwinnable if you believe this simple logic.

From a police perspective what would be easier to contain...... a club full of luved up ecstasy users or a club full of drunken aggro punters. Ecstasy doesn’t promote the violence and vandalism that alcohol does. So at the end of the
day crime statistics could come down, and the cop in charge gets a good old fashioned pat on the back and a hearty "well done" from his superiors. Its a win win situation.
This reminded me of article I read sometime ago about there being a strong correlation between the increased use of ecstasy in England and the decrease in soccer violence there. Cops were interviewed and they basically said, off the record of course, that they would prefer the crowds to take ecstasy instead of alcohol. They were easier to contain.
[ 26 December 2002: Message edited by: lorrett ]

ha ha, ive been saying it for years . . .
. . . do you know how hard it is to upset or aggravate someone on e?!?!? . . . ITS FUCKING IMPOSSIBLE!!! . . .
peace and blessed be . . .
crow011 . . .

Read Ben Elton's new book called "High Society".
Pretty interesting read.......basically the point of the book is that the world-wide war on drugs is lost and that if we legalise every drug today that 90% of societies crime would be wiped out.
I don't work for his publishing co. or anything but Im positive that most contributors to this forum would find it pretty inetersting and be able to relate to the story.

I really enjoyed reading this post - good discussion.
BigTrancer

I've been having thoughts the last few weeks about the whole legalisation issue.
Make drugs legal, tax the bejesus out of them and make people get a licence to be able to buy them. This has so many pluses. Make the licence course about teaching responsible use and harm minimisation, and also about what to do if someone gets into trouble. Take the money from taxes and funnel it into hospitals and education, then there's more money for schools to raise responsible adults, and hospitals will have more money to spend on treating people with an addiction (it's a disease, not a crime remember). Think about cigarettes, they are the biggest cost to health in this country, yet without the taxes from cigarettes, the economy would collapse.
The other thing you would have to do, would be to harshly penalise those who fuck up with their drugs. Ie. Selling to unlicenced people, selling without a licence and most importantly, driving whilst under the influence.
Better education and health, plus being able to broaden your horizons and have a whole lot more fun, this world could be a utopia.
I also have another theory. All plants should be legalised, and make it illegal to process these in anyway. Once again licence people to do it (again a form of income and a way to educate). Also keep it illegal to sell anything, this would prevent people from harvesting massive crops, and of course everyone would sell a little bit here and there, but it would be more like a home industry thing. The kinds of plants I'm thinking of are pot, shrooms, salvia, opium, cocoa and the like.

i dont know if this is off topic, but long time ago when i was a little kid i heard someone mention that there was something like the 7 powers or something like that. the guys who basically ran, or inderectly dictated what the world econmic powers did. i understood they had their fingers in every pie.
like with many other topics i dont think that "the good of the world" is a priority for them and hence, common sense laws as proposed like above will never exist.

Here is a short essay I wrote a couple of years ago that is somewhat relavant to the topic... A bit dated, and I bashed it out in about 4 hours but hey.
Potential drug policy options:
[ 29 December 2002: Message edited by: -Thoth ]

anfalicious......check out the book I mentioned in my post above. It details EXACTLY what you were talking about in a 'not-so fictional' story where the british government come incredibly close to total legalisation.
You'll enjoy it...