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NEWS: Melb Meth and Ecstasy News

hoptis

hoptis

Bluelight Crew
Joined
May 1, 2002
Messages
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As of this week pharamacists in Victoria are under new guidelines regarding the sale of pseudoephedrine, the active ingredient in the production of methylamphetamines.
Front page Herald Sun article:
Crackdown targets drug gang scam
Also in the Herald Sun, articles on suburban meth labs:
Drug labs 'time bombs' in suburbs
Raiders face perilous task
Equivalent article from The Age:
Chemists join anti-drugs campaign
The gist of it all being:
GANGS working for criminal drug syndicates are emptying chemist shops of millions of dollars worth of cold and flu tablets to brew illegal amphetamines.
But a crackdown on the drug scam, beginning this week, will make packets of the tablets harder to buy.
Pharmacists will have to satisfy themselves that a customer has a legitimate need for the tablets.
And police will immediately respond to reports of suspicious sales.
The sophisticated criminal operations involve gangs of buyers known as "runners", who pinpoint pharmacies on maps and methodically buy packets of cold, flu and allergy tablets containing pseudoephedrine.
In one day, up to six runners can visit 30 pharmacies and buy up to 90 packets of pseudoephedrine tablets.
These can be used to produce kilograms of amphetamines worth about $180,000 on the street.
- from the headline Herald Sun article
Also from today's Age, an article on the mixing of Viagra and ecstasy by male 'nightclubbers'.
Clubbers' cocktail may be dangerous
Click to expand...
 
About that last article, the Viagra one... I just spoke to Paul Dillon and he was fairly angry about it. It turns out that he was (mis)quoted from a workshop talk he gave at a drug conference in Melbourne late last week. He was unaware that any of the people attending the workshop were press, and nnone of what he said was intended for publication, at least not in a newspaper. This isn't to say that he doesn't want this inoformation out there, far from it, it's just that you tend to phrase things more carefully when you are aware that the press will be regurgiting your commments...
hat said it wasn't a really awful article, and if it makes people more aware of the dangers of combining these substances some good ill come of it. And on that note Paul said that he has just been approved funding to do some more study into the effects of combining pharmeceuticals such as Viagra and anti-depressants, with recreationals. Finally we might have some real data!
 
An inaccuracy to note:
The lifeblood of any clandestine lab is pseudoephedrine.
I'm no chemist, and correct me if I'm wrong. But as I understand it, pseudoephedrine is not used to manufacture GHB, Heroin or MDMA.
I also found it rather amusing that they called GHB the 'love drug'.
Click to expand...
 
Pseudoephedrine definitely cannot be used for MDMA, heroin or GHB whatsoever.
It cannot even be used for amphetamine; only methylamphetamine.
I think really big cartels probably are not using these runners to access chemicals. Its more likely they are importing high quality meth itself, pseudoephedrine/ephedrine PURE from say China, or using other more large scale pre-cursors like P2P.
The PFed still has to be extracted from the tablets which if you wanted 5kg would require around 100,000 tablets. To me they wouldnt fart around like that. If they are consistently producing many kilograms i doubt they would bother with tablets and all the related binder etc; they'd want kilograms of a pure source.
However chances are your meth isnt coming from a "cartel" so to speak but some chemistry hack who fits their "laboratory" in the boot of their car and pathetically tries to "cook" this PFed and turn it into meth; or at least some of it. Maybe he/she is connected to a larger drug syndicate in terms of the dealing, but its still relatively very small scale.
One article speaks of technology improving so it can be done in hours not days. Dont know where that came from as these methods have been around for decades, (one is the "nazi" method after all) most are very crude and the level of sophistication of these labs is deplorable at best.
Any MDMA lab would appear to be in terms of sophistication in say the top 10% of all meth labs simply because it needs to be.
 
so, we've now read a hundred of this type of article, and had the reality of the situations explained by people who should know... have we learnt something?
Newspapers simply publish the press releases sent to thiem, in this case from the Government. The Government has a product to sell; the image of them "doing something".
This is all about appearances. The Government of the time, be it from either end of the politics spectrum, has to be seen at all times, and particularly times before an election, as "being tough on crime", "cracking down on welfare cheats". "ending police corruption" and other such myths.
This is just a obvious example of one tiny change, that will zero effct on the real problem, but will get you the front page for a few days and reinforce an image of "getting things done".
 
Originally posted by hoptis:
In one day, up to six runners can visit 30 pharmacies and buy up to 90 packets of pseudoephedrine tablets.
Hmmm...
say 6 people buy 90 packets each, lets say packs of 24 sinus tablets each containing total 1.2g of pseudo... that works out to 6 x 90 x 1.2 = 648 grams of pseudo. I'm sure yield varies a lot in these dodgy street labs, but lets assume 75% would be a very high yield. 75% of 648 = 486g of meth. Even at street value of, lets guess, $200 a gram, thats $97,200.
A bit of a distance from the quoted price of $180,000 ?
I understand that selling the news is all about sensationalism and shock tactics, but I'd honestly be embarrassed to be SO wrong ALL the time if I was a journalist ! :p
Click to expand...
 
Maybe i'm missing something,but i can't see how anything has changed.
All the article said was that chemists must satisfy themselves that the pseudo is being used for a legitimate purpose.
As i understand it Victoria is the only state you don't have to show i.d to buy it,and you still don't!!I would imagine that pharmacys have been aware of pseudo diversion for a long time so therefore your everyday chemist was already doing whats being asked of them now.
It seems to me it won't even stop the smallest cooks,or even incovenience them!?
There was actually an article in the Herald-sun today about "pseudo runners".Police seized 6889 tablets containing 413.34g of pseudo apparently enough to make 296.22g of meth.They then went on to say the 296g would convert to 9.86kg of 3% speed.
Pretty fucking easy way to make these people(who probably dont even know how to make meth)look like large scale meth producers.
My pointy actually was the fact these 2 people had come all the way from Queensland to buy these pills,because no has to show i.d in Vic
This shits not going to change because a pharmacist has to satisfy themselves its legit.
I don't care i hate the rubbish anyway
Goodnight :)
3% pure!!!LMFAO..$500,000 speed pill spree via retarded logic
[ 14 August 2002: Message edited by: Neks ]
 
I actually posted a reply to one of the article
Plaque Bearer - Heya! I made the same comment! Posted it to the site indicating that neither MDMA or GHB are made from Pseudoephedrine! :)
I love reading articles in the press, they are usually of a very poor quality. Perhaps the journalist should do atleast a bit of research.
Cheers,
:)
 
its 60mg per tablet usually; certainly no higher.
I'd say from taking the tablet through the extraction procedures, which have been made increasingly difficult, through synthesis and finally crystallisation the yield would be 50% at best.and even then chances are the actual product is only say 30% pure.
That cut down to 5%, 10% even perhaps 20% would be absolutely worthless.
Its humourous to a degree.
 
I hope this is not against guidlines, but:
Packets of Sudafed 12 Hour relief have 10 120mg tablets.
That is $12.
:)
 
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
I actually take sudafed for the correct reaqsons i.e stuffed nose.
I've never seen 120mg tabs only 12hr 30mg tabs.
I haven't looked very hard though seeing as my doctor prescribes me ephedrine(not pseudo) nose drops
Biscuit,there has to be a fairly large profit margin involved or it wouldn't be so common.
Why do you hate Meth cooks so much???
Well besides the greed,lack of hygiene and skills etc
Perhaps some people do it to supply themselves??Whats wrong with that??
[ 19 August 2002: Message edited by: Neks ]
 
The profit margin is part of the problem - they buy pseudoephedrine tablets to make meth. That increases the profit hugely... then they make speedbombs out of the meth - that makes even more profit. Speedbombs suck hardcore, are a waste of money, rip off people wanting MDMA, and depending on how much/litte care has been taken or how tricky the chemist has been putting in other adulterants, speedbombs can be dangerous in some situations.
Most preparations available at pharmacies have 30mg pseudoephedrine, but 'time release' tablets with in excess of 120mg can be bought. I imagine it's harder to extract the pseudoephedrine from these formulations, however.
BigTrancer :)
 
Hey BT,i had a look today and the regular 30mg tabs i take are 12hr release.
So i kept looking and saw 120mg tabs that are also 12hr release*shrugs*
 
Off topic:
The amount of drug in the tablet doesn't control the rate of absorption. A type of wax(?) coating is used for slow release, often called enteric coated because it dissolves in the intestine instead of the stomach. Not sure if the binders/fillers are different as well and there are probably other forms of coating.
However, a larger amount of drug can probably give some sort of indication of whether it is meant for sustained release or not.
I have some Logicin (60mg, pseudoephedrine only) and they certainly aren't slow release!
{ edit: I may have it a bit mixed up. Enteric coating is to protect the stomach from harmful drugs or the drug from being destroyed by stomach acid. I though it was also used for slow release but I'm not sure now. }
[ 19 August 2002: Message edited by: SeveredPsyche ]
 
enteric coating is usually a sugar coating which is designed to not be fully dissolved until the tablet reaches the intestines, thus sparing your stomach of any possible damage from the drug (for example nurofen is coated to prevent stomach irritation) or to prevent damage to the drug by the harsh acid in the stomach (can't think of one right now). Slow release tablets is like swallowing 2 tablets in one go, with one tablet inside the other, with the coating of the first layer dissolving almost instantly in the stomach, and the other one taking around 6 hours to dissolve. The other way slow release can work is when there are different binders which hold part of the contents, so half of the contents of the tablet is in a binder which dissolves something close to instantly, and the other half are attatched to a binder which takes longer to be broken down.
60mg per 6-8 hours is the standard dose of pseudoephedrine for the treatment of nasal congestion in adults. this is what the small sudafed tablets contain. most cold/flu tabs will have only 30mg per tab, but then they usually recommend you to take 2 tabs every 6 hours. My personal opinion is that pseudoephedrine useage should be monitored a lot more closely than it has been, simply because it is so easy to become physically dependant on the substance, even when using it for therapeutic reasons, in 5 to 7 days, which is often less than symptoms of colds last. Certainly less than symptoms of flu will last.
I would also hazard an outrageous assumption that drug syndicates who get pseudoephedrine from pharmacies would be using it, ground up, in an unchanged form, to make their speed bombs or what have you a little more chargey, ie, almost as a filler. I have no personal or inside knowledge of what is done, but my guess would be that ppl bothering with pseudoephedrine wouldn't change it, except to maybe add something to it, change it's colour and put a new stamp on it. Just a thought :)
 
Originally posted by mirabii:
enteric coating is usually a sugar coating which is designed to not be fully dissolved until the tablet reaches the intestines, thus sparing your stomach of any possible damage from the drug (for example nurofen is coated to prevent stomach irritation) or to prevent damage to the drug by the harsh acid in the stomach (can't think of one right now).
Erythromycin is one example. Thanks for clearing that up mirabii...I certainly was a little confused. :)
Regarding selling pseudoephedrine as speed, I believe this is happening here. Not only as tablets but as ground up powder, sometimes even cut!!! It sounds unbelievable, but at least 1 dd was peddling this crap for a while. Speaking from a user's exerience, as well as talking to others, has led me to this opinion. Also, I don't like sudafed at all so this really annoyed me. One friend wasn't worried and knew it was crap but would continue buying it anyway because they didn't care..."at least it was something".
Thankfully we seem to have seen the last of that.
Click to expand...
 
Any time release formula i doubt would be used by the meth cooks as it most certainly contains the sort of binders that would cause much grief for them and even though the tablets might have more, at the end of the day, they probably wind up with less.
I dont hate anyone Neks; i think u misinterpreted what i was trying to say. (actually i dont understand because your post above my previous seems to show we agree) I was taking shots at the reporting and the usual massive profits and amounts of drugs that they believe can be obtained from given quantities of precursors.
What i meant was the yield from tablets to "illicit powder" is much lower than what they assumed it could be and then u must consider its not pure either; often less than 50% for so-called uncut.
I have got no problem with meth cooks personally because they produce dodgy product, but why shouldnt i be allowed to point that out to the majority of people that dont actually realise pure and uncut does not mean that, especially when it comes to meth produced from pseudoephedrine. Its far from it, and thats important.
The other thing i was having a go at was the same report implying this meth could be cut to 5% or something and still be valued by even the most novice consumer; because of its purity it clearly couldnt. Only 99% pure meth would be likely to be remotely useful at 5% and even then only mildly; and try buying something like that from your local DD.
On the topic of pseudoephedrine in meth: this is actually a good point. Pseudoephedrine and meth have very similar properties especially in regards to crystallisation; so when the manufacturer finishes his conversion (or thinks he has) any meth he turns into powder via acid addition the LEFTOVER pseudoephedrine WILL COME WITH IT! and be a powder that looks just the same as the meth.
So if the cook doesnt do the conversion long enough, or poorly you could often get various ratios of meth:pseudoephedrine, from very low to very high.
And as the cook will not be able to distinguish these products readily he will assume success because he is left with a powder afterwards, but that powder may well be a 20:80% ratio and hence a load of crap.
 
thanks, i have just posted on health but i think i have found my answer right here, been on a binge (iv)speed/meth whatever for 7 months, now anal bleeding, guess its time to.
 
Originally posted by Neks:
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
I've never seen 120mg tabs only 12hr 30mg tabs.
[ 19 August 2002: Message edited by: Neks ]
clarinase is 120mg
Click to expand...
 
I recently talked to a pharmacist that mentioned the pseudoephedrine that these people were running through was a presciption medicine. Most prescription paracetamol contain packets with large quantities for a small price. My mum picks up prescription paracetamol that has 50 500mg tablets for a small price below the $15 dollar range. Not sure how reliable that is however. She also mentioned that all of the Pseudoephedrine containing med's will soon be all on prescription. Not sure how true that is!
:)
 
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