Why you should take antioxidant's with MDMA

I always assumed everyone knew this, but it's come to my attention that many people aren't aware that something as cheap and easy to get as vitamin c may help reduce MDMA related neurotoxicity. Even if you don't bother to use 5htp (which you should, but I know it's difficult to obtain for some), the very least you can do to look after your brain in the long run is swallow some elcheapo vitamin c.


WHAT THE F@$% IS AN ANTIOXIDANT?

Antioxidants are substances that counteract the damaging effects of oxidation.


WHY SHOULD I CARE?

Well, I bet you quite like your brain yeah? Research in ratties has shown that MDMA apears to damage serotonin axons by a process of oxidation. It is unclear what this means for humans, but it's safe to say this ISN'T a good thing.


WHAT DO YOU EXPECT ME TO DO ABOUT IT?

Antioxidants are easy to obtain, and some are very cheap. They include vitamin c, e, a, selenium, green tea, grape seed extract, co enzyme Q 10 etc. They are a lot easier to obtain than Prozac (which appears to reduce neurotoxicity if given after MDMA) and less likely to have side-effects or interactions than Prozac. Also, the beauty of antioxidants is that you can take them before MDMA, unlike Prozac.


HOW DO I USE ANTIOXIDANTS?

There are plenty of threads and FAQ's on this topic, here are a few to start you off. Take the time to read these right through - don't skim them as there is a lot of important info in there.
From erowid:
Do Antioxidants Protect Against MDMA Hangover, Tolerance and Neurotoxicity?
From BL: MDMA/neurotoxicity misconceptions (long)


WHAT ELSE CAN ANTIOXIDANTS DO?

Well, if you read the erowid thread you would see it appears that antioxidants may reduce MDMA tolerance too. That HAS to be a good thing. So even if you don't like your brain, at least consider using antioxidants to minimise MDMA tolerance.


BUT I CAN'T AFFORD ANTIOXIDANT'S!

You can't afford NOT to take antioxidants! You can buy 30 tabs of vitamin c 1000mg for about $3, and 60 caps of vitamin e 250 iu for about $6. You can also get antioxidant formulas which tend to be more expensive as they contain stuff like selenium, co enzyme Q10 and grape seed extract. Although the studies have focussed on vitamin c and alpha lipoic acid, it makes sense that other antioxidants would be helpful too. So if you can afford a variety, go for it.


BUT I DON'T TAKE MDMA, I LIKE METH!
Antioxidants are also good for people who use amphetamines, as they cause neurotoxicity via oxidation too.

BUT I DON'T LIKE MY BRAIN AND DON'T CARE IF I SUBJECT MYSELF TO NEUROTOXICITY!

Well, er, that's your choice I suppose.

Good work doc !

^ : Great post, thanks babydoc_vic!
BigTrancer

Beat me to it!
Well posted!

Bravo! Nice one. This should be printed as a pamphlet, and given to everyone at raves/clubs.
Out of curiosity, doesn't tea contain antioxidants as well? Would a nice cup of tea after you come from a rave be beneficial?

Tea does contain anti-oxidants, and whats more, a nice cup of sweet tea does wonders to soothe a ravaged mouth and tongue after a big night.
BigTrancer

Green tea contains much higher levels of antioxidants than other teas.
:D

Does jasmine tea come under the "green" bracket? I sure hope so, coz that stuff rocks [well, as much as tea can, anyway]

all i shall say 2 you informed peeps is well GO THE BABY FOOD!@#
allow me to explain, my mummy always was a freak for natural therpies herbs non porcessed foods etc etc. As a toddler i was force fed many things, but one thing i actually liked was the good old mashed banna, oj and coffee dipping biscuits!
As well as providing a tasty early morn snack, it contains a lot of essential vits and minerals needed by the pill sweet-toothers as are we. ~

great post babydoc
and also a lot more "accessible" than the more complicated and comprehensive ones found in ecstasy discussion.
I find that I often don't have the time nor the patience to read through those monster posts, so short and sweet ones like this serve a better purpose in my eyes!
big ups!

Great post indeed babydoc.
liquiddelight: That's a great idea, the more people that can be educated the better. Maybe you should try talking to one of the Enlighten members to see if they can hand out information like that when pill testing.

Nice post!
And that's the reason why Vit C, E, and B always accompany me in a film cannister and are consumed during any recovery.
:D
-plaz out-

Thanks baby doc - if you can afford the pills you can afford the Vit C!!

Sure I could talk to the enlighten folks but they'll just make me write another pamphlett.
Slavedrivers!

I would just like to point out that THC is also an anti-oxidant, and there has been recent studies to show that the combination of weed and MDMA does reduce neurotoxicity. Dont ask me on the finer detailes of when it is best to smoke while rolling, because im unsure of that. If anyone could find/link these studies (i think they were done in the UK not all that long ago) i would greatly apprectiate it. For your information and for reliability's sake, these studies were brought up during a recent open forum lecture on 'Drugs & the brain' at Sydney Uni, so its not some unsourced rubbish.
[ 15 June 2002: Message edited by: twonk ]

lol @ babydoc!! :D

Got a question for u babydoc in relation to this topic. May be best suited for Health Q&A, but while im here...
I'm pretty serious about pre and post loading with anti oxidants. My question relates to pre loading and in particular - ALA (Alpha Lipoic Adic). This is meant to be one of the better anti oxidants, but i've noticed that after consuming 4 capsules about 30 - 60 mins after, it seems to be coming out of my urine. The smell is quite unique. Does this mean that ALA goes though the system relatively quickly and by the time i rollin, there is no protective factor of ALA cause it's already gone though my system? Just though you or anyone else might know. If so, should one be consistantly taking anti-oxidants while rolling, ie, taking a couple of ALA / vitamin C doses every couple of hours?

s2000: can't help you on the alpha lipoic acid / urine question I'm afraid. I do know that it is very short acting, and a sustained release formulation is available overseas.
As for vitamin c, it is eliminated in 3 - 4 hours, so it is pretty short acting. If you can take it during MDMA, that would probably be a good thing. However, personally, I find vitamin c on MDMA starts to taste rather like battery acid, ie: fairly nasty.
Apparently, other antioxidants like grape seed extract can regenerate used vitamin c and e (see http://www.allvita.net/grapeinfo.htm ). Grape seed extract is fairly long acting too. While it hasn't been used in any of the antioxidant/MDMA studies, it might be even more useful than vitamin c. I can't prove that of course, but it's good enough for me. Logic suggests that a variety of antioxidants is better than just one.

I take my vitamins everyday, cos I have a hella shit diet (yes I know it's not a replacement, but it sure helps).
I have 2 questions.
Firstly (I know I should read the FAQ) when is the best time to take the Vit C? I usually take some towards the tail end of my roll, and also along with my daily vitamin intake.
Secondly, part of my daily intake is echinacea, as I have a crappy immune system. Are there any added benefits to my post loading by taking this?
One other point, if the next time any of you meet me, I haven't ordered 5HTP, slap me please