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Comparing ephedrine to speed

property magnate

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Most websites state ephedrine has a similar molecular structure to methamphetamine.
So, with ephedrine being able to resemble methamphetamine, is it possible to recieve the same "buzz" with ephedrine alone?
And if anyone has used ephedrine alone, could you please state effects during use!
 
From what ive read, (and tried), ephedrine and phsuedo-ephedrine (sudafed)keep you awake, but are a much messier drug (more shakes, irregular heart beats etc etc), and no where near the buzz.
Anyone else?
Chem
 
No they are not the same.
The structures are similar but even a small change in structure can greatly effect the pharmacological effects of drugs. Take phenylethylamines; Shulgin has showed that just by adding an extra methyl group to the nitrogen atom of say MDMA, (making the substance a DIMETHYL compound) essentially destroys its activity completely. Thats one -CH3 group transforming one of the most incredible and unique pyschoactive compounds known into a complete dud.
Ephedrine/pseudoephedrine have a hydroxyl group (-OH) on the carbon atom adjacent to the phenyl group; the "alpha" carbon; for whatever reason this greatly changes the effects compared to methyl and ordinary amphetamine.
Phenylpropanolamine (PPA) is the same with respect to amphetamine as ephedrine is to meth.
If you look at the neurotransmitters dopamine, noradrenaline and adrenaline, meth and amphetamine resembles dopamine more and ephedrine resembles nordrenaline and adrenaline more.
Both the latter have the SAME alpha hydroxyl group as ephedrine; whereas dopamine has NO alpha hydroxy group like an amphetamine.
Whilst i dont pretend to understand how the amphetamines work the structures imply amphetamines will effect dopamine greatly due to their marked similiarity (which they do) whereas ephedrine will not. The amphetamines still influence the other neurotransmitters however; its just that ephedrine doesnt with respect to dopamine. (probably because the hydroxyl group prevents it from getting INTO dopamine producing nerve cells - i dont know this however; perhaps an "expert" can confirm it)
And you should know that it is dopamine and not adrenaline etc that is mainly responsible for the euphoria, CNS stimulation, reward feelings, and addiction potential of amphetamines.
Noradrenaline and adrenaline especially, are linked more to blood pressure, heart rate and the other less attractive effects of amphetamines, which as we know ephedrine and pseudoephedrine DO have an influence on.
 
Ephedrine is an adrenergic drug that works by stimulating alpha and beta receptors thus causing the release of norepinephrine. Alpha and beta receptors exist in the sympathetic nervous system, (fight or flight) and stimulation causes increased heart rate, bronchodilation, and vasoconstriction.
Ephedrine is the oral form of Epinephrine, or adrenaline. It was once a commonly prescribed drug for asthma, but newer drugs in the xanthine class have less side effects.
Ephedrine is related to pseudoephedrine which was designed as a decongestant with less undesirable effects.
Excerpted from: Erowid Ephedrine Vaults
BigTrancer :)
 
I'm no expert but I'll try to outline some pharmacological reasons why ephedrine and amphetamine work differently. Biscuit has described well the chemical / structural differences.
From a chemical level it has to do with SAR, or structural activity relationships; the way the drug fits into or binds with your body molecules (receptors enzymes etc).
Receptors are large proteins, some of which are serpentine shaped(G protein) and others that are pockets which form small holes in the center that can be closed or opened (ion channels) to pass certain shaped molecules. There are others but these two are relevant here. These receptors are often located in the outer membranes of cells. They act as switches for certain cell functions, and gates into/ out of the cell for certain molecules.
There are other considerations, but these are some of the major factors affecting whether a molecule (ligand) such as amphetamine will bind with a certain receptor.
Whether the receptor is “available”
Shape of the ligand and how much it can easily twist or bend (rotational conformity)
Competition with other molecules
The size of the functional groups or atoms attached (-OH, H etc)
And the polarity of the atoms /groups attached
One thing to note, is while a ligand may be complex or simple, receptors are very complex molecules
Most binding between ligand and receptor is through hydrogen bonding, and other very weak electrostatic bonds (van der waals forces). Small electronic charges attract, repel or make still, atoms of the ligand - receptor which come very close together. Although the receptor can often change its shape considerably, it is highly selective about what it binds with. However it can still mean many different molecules can bind with a single receptor type.
Once it binds, a G protein receptor can completely rearrange itself, where it causes further chemical changes.
As Biscuit mentions Ephedrine has an alpha–OH. Oxygen is a very electronegative element, and very much bigger than H. Because of the angle the H is at when bound to O, it does not sit where the H or methyl group H’s would sit. Therefore the molecule may not bind at all in the place “amphetamine without the OH” would bind.
Sometimes these changes in atoms and functional groups (the H -->OH in this case) can still enable the molecule to bind, but alters its effect. This may produce more or less of the original effect, or cause a completely different effect. Different acting drugs and generics are often designed by such substitutions.
Ephedrine and Amphetamine (monoamines) both bind to some of the same receptors, such as some adrenoreceptors, but their actions here are quite weak. They work their magic by binding to the regulating receptors called uptake 1 receptors, which allows them to enter the noradrenaline (NA) producing (presynaptic) cell. As they enter they are bound up in things called vesticles (little bundles of proteins). Binding causes NA to be released in to cytosol (fluid inside cells). Some NA is broken down inside the cell by MAO (an enzyme called mono amine oxidase) but some escapes in exchange for the monoamine. This NA is now out side the cell ready to do its job
As well as binding with other receptors amphetamine also alters the regulatory mechanism for NA; as said it restricts uptake. More is circulating outside cells and enters the blood stream, where it is able to bind with other cells receptors.
Amphetamine also inhibits MAO which further increases its effects (more DA). Through both the actions on producing NA and other indirect actions on Dopamine (DA) receptors, Amphetamine also causes DA to be released in higher levels than normal, with the regulating mechanism for DA also turned towards off.
Dopamine as Biscuit says is what gives you the pleasure, elevated noradrenaline levels can be associated with amongst other things anxiety.
As BT mentions Ephedrine binds as an agonist (stimulates –turns on) with Beta adrenoreceptors, this probably being a lot to do with the shakes described, as tremor is the result of stimulating Beta 2 adrenoreceptors in skeletal muscle cells.
Long term ephedrine /pseudo use is known to cause receding of the gums. I knew some truck drivers years ago who used ephedrine virtually every day. 5 of the 6 in that crew all had receding gums and terrible teeth at ~30-35. Personally, although it has its uses in medicine, I think its of little value as a drug of pleasure.
This is far from a complete picture, many other mechanisms are at play, but hopefully it helps in some way with understanding why they work differently. Please correct anything anyone.
 
Summary: (simple)
pseudo/ephedrine: release neurotransmitter noradrenaline, primarily part of the sympathetic (?) nervous system used in the fight/flight response, it keeps you awake and energized, and from trying it (mainly in conjunction with DXM) it produces an elevated heart rate, shakes and this weird tightness of the chest. Smoking a ciggie on this has that usually (amphetamine feeling) like it's not harsh at all, rather like oxygen.
meth/amphetamine: releases dopamine which produces that europhoric rush, and stimulates noradrenalin and restricts its uptake, thus producing the stimulant qualities that speed provides.
Conclusion: eph. is a functional drug, meth. is a recreational drug.
take the meth.
 
Tabernacle - what was the name of the product that contained ephedrine? and what was the dose of ephedrine in each tablet / capsule?
 
It was logicin cold&cough and it didn't contain ephedrine it was pseudoephedrine. I didn't take this product for the pseudo i took it for the DXM. This having been said, taking this product is extremely discouraged, it contains paracetamol which can kill at the recreational doses that you desire, plus taking recreational doses of pseudo/ephedrine is also very dangerous as it elevates heart rate to dangerous levels and induces dizziness, shakes and other nasty side effects. Don't go over the recommended dose of 6 logicin, i don't want be responsible for anybody dying. If you've got your heart set on taking pseudoephedrine try something that contains psedoephedrine only, like sudafed (that's if the speed dealers don't have it all) although you would get much more enjoyment by buying a point of crystal methamphetamine.
(if ya want to try DXM, don't go the logicin, try Robotussin DX, it tastes gross, but is far less likely to kill you if you overdose, which is easier to do than you think, especially with pharmaceuticals (more a case of contraindictions, but you know what i mean))
 
Tabernacle -
So you say that ephedrine is more of a functional drug, therefore im better off using i for sporting activities rather than for recreational purposes.
Im not sure if the stuff i got is very strong. Im not sure of the dosage that is needed to get all the effects websites state. The stuff i ordered has got 80mg of ephedrine per capsule. Well really 1000mg of ephedra standardised to 8%.
 
I think by "functional" tabernacle meant "therapeutic", as ephedrine can be used for bronchospasm/asthma. According to the MIMS, the prescription version of ephedrine (hydrochloride), no more than 150mg should be used in 24 hours (although I can imagine people go higher than that for receational purposes). Common side-effects include anxiety, insomnia, increased heart rate and blood pressure.
 
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