About Meth.vs.Amphetamine

Now I know there has been much debate in this forum about the differences between Meth and regular amphetamine.
Erowid will provide you with the basic differences. However the discussion has been over what sorts of speed we have here in Australia.
Now, in my time I have sampled many different kinds of speed, as I'm sure we all have. Everything from the horrible dirty shit, thats been cut down six ways from Taiwan, through to nice crystaline looking stuff, through to low and grimy sticky, gummy base. As well as my fair share of rock and powders of varying colour and quality.
However, on NYE I came upon what was sold to me as crystal meth. This stuff was a very nice clean white, ground down into small crystals. This was my first chance to try (what had been sold as Meth), in a decent enough quanitity to form an opinion.
W E L L .....
I was very, very impressed. I only had a small dab of this on my tounge and oh god! Was I rocking hard, this stuff tasted similar to the regular speed taste, only it was much nastier and slightly different. It dissolved very quickly and within 10 mins or so I was FUCKING WIRED. I've never felt more energetic. But it was more than that, this wasn't just the energy of normal speed it was RAW POWER. There was nothing I couldn't do. I just danced harder and harder and faster and faster.
Every part of my body was made of steel and I couldn't stop moving, talking etc. The feeling was almost overpowering at some stages and it outlasted a regular speed experience by hours. I also noticed it scattered me like a motherfucker.
All this sounds like a text book comparison of Amphetamine and Methamphetamine.
Now this does seem to suggest that the bulk of speed out there is for some reason amphetamine. Maybe my hookups have been so bad over the years that this was my first taste of real purity, however I do doubt it as I've seen some very nice stuff that has rocked myself and many others, but NOTHING has compared to meth. Given the number of busts in what the media incorrectly label as 'Ice' Labs (they are referring to Meth labs), one could suspect that there is an increase in Meth's availability. However it does very much seem that if you want Meth as opposed to regular amphetamine in Australia, you have to ask for it.

i want it mummy i want it
*sob sob*

From my understanding what's currently available is:
1) Bunk Meth
2) Crap Meth
3) Average Meth
4) Good Meth
5) Awesome Meth
6) Hella Wicked Fuck Off Amazing Meth
But there's still no regular amphetamine (well, so rare there might as well be none anyway)... Sounds like you've managed to sample some of number 6, where previously you've been getting 5 and below...

I doubt anyone would be able to tell the difference between methamphetamine and amphetamine anyway.
A double blind trial would be funny. Any volunteers?
Amphetamine does come up on quite a few European pill test sites. Check out the couple of pills with DOB and 2-CB as well.
http://www.step-hannover.de/data/dprae/rav3.html
[ 04 January 2002: Message edited by: popper ]

That's exactly what good crystal is sposed to be like Plague Bearer Very good account of it's effects! Pretty easy to see how it can be so addictive huh?
BigTrancer
[ 05 January 2002: Message edited by: BigTrancer ]

poppererhaps people may not be able to distinguish the two at the time, but I swear you will know the difference aftewards. To quote plaguebearer

it scattered me like a motherfucker
Truer words were never spoken.

Click to expand...

if you ask for meth in australia what you're really asking for is purity.mostly all the speed,goey,base whatever you want to call it is meth,because the synth is so much easier there is no point in bothering with the other stuff.the difference is what they use for ingredients,and the skill of the cook.you would be horrified if you knew what went into some speed (like matches[i cant remember if they use the match heads or the stuff off the side]fot the phosphuros).impurities like this make it alot harder to grow the really big crystals you get with meth.the other thing is if the meth you had was crushed into powder,unless you got it of a trusted friend who crushed it up himself there is a high possibility it was still kut down some what,most likely with epson salt.so if you want the kosher shit make sure you're getting mostly rocks although admittedly they do splinter easily when handeled,even in the sappy.regardless i do know exactly where you're coming from,put simply its the shit.i can remember the first time i had it and saying to my self,holy fuck i aint never goin back .
[ 05 January 2002: Message edited by: tHeRiDdLeR ]

popper: You can easy do a meth vs amph test using a reagent that checks for a secondary amine (the meth part in methamphetamine). I have such a reagent (Simon's reagent its called) and of all the tests that I've done I don't think I've ever found plain amphetamine. (it test MDMA vs MDA as well)
My fews follow Pleonastic's - however there might be some playing around with isomer's to get different effects (d-methamphetamine and l-methamphetamine).

Soma: you misunderstood me. I'm aware that there are qualitative tests to distignuish between meth and amphetamine.
I was saying that if you used a speedfreak as a qualitative tester they would fail miserabley.They would not be able to tell the difference between the effects of amphetamine and methamphetamine.
For our intents and purposes there is no difference.
babydoc_vic: sorry.....no you can't tell the difference. A type of comedown cannot gauge if you got methamphetamine or amphetamine. There are more factors that determine the comedown.
Everything made from sudafed is methamphetamine.
If it's made from P-2-P they are more likely to make methamphetamine over amphetamine because it's a higher yielding reaction and methamphetamine is slightly more potent.
Everyone gets meth as Soma said it's just at different stages of being cut!
Don't believe your DRUG DEALER.
[ 05 January 2002: Message edited by: popper ]
[ 05 January 2002: Message edited by: popper ]

I think that regular amphetamine users who always look for quality, rather than the regular junkie type that will bunt anything, would be able to tell the difference. If you get to a point where the differences between batches of high quality meth are not just apparent but stand out, then the same users could probably pick between meth and speed, especially in retrospect.
In my experience, virtually all amphetamines, whether sold as meth or 'speed' are, as has been said, meth.
BTW, for those who are wondering about the epson salts, apparently its used to provide rushes when bunted. I cant personally confirm that, since I dont inject. Can anyone confirm?

Well now that I know I've definitely sampled amphetamine (rock from around april last year) and meth-amphetamine (at various stages of purity), in retrospect I can definitely tell the difference.
For me, meth produces an almost invisible wakedness. Invisible energy. It's there, and you can feel it in your chest, but you can't tell how it got there.
On the flip side, after swallowing a nice chunk of rock (like say a point?)20mins later and it feels as though I'm pilling. I get a euphoric buzz that starts around the belly and rises up until i'm grinning (and chewing) like a motherfucker. Mr Horse will testify to the first time I had real almost pure amphetamine "i feel like a pill is coming on dude".
Now I've snorted and swallowed both and have only recently been informed about the simpler synthesis of meth (i thought it was the other way around!) and that most speed you get is actually meth (whether it be Sydney, Melba wherever)... I'd say that I probably couldn't tell the difference between less pure versions of the two and ive never trie ice (soon..soon.. aaahh )..so.. who knows really? but yeah.. atm the difference is obvious to me.

It's my understanding people cut meth with epson salts because it actually looks like small cyrtals of meth. Grab some and take a look, almost identical. Plus it burns a little when you snort it, unlike glucose or sugar, so people think its the real deal.
When you cut with gluc or sugar it softens the burn but apparently when you shoot sugar or gluc it gives you more of a rush. People can get hooked on the rush from shooting 'sweetened' meth, hence the sugar junkies as my friends used to call them.

OK, I'll re-phrase it. IME a meth comedown is a much harsher comedown. That's all I meant.

Yes epsom salts can be used to cut, I imagine its because 1. they taste salty and contribute to that awful taste of speed, 2. They dry it out a bit 3. It adds more weight (therefore $$) 4. Injecting gives a warm rush. Many people that have injected speed have told me that they can tell straight away if its been cut with epsom salts because of that feeling.

Unfortunately I found out the nasty way how much stronger good clean cyrstal is than normal "meth"
I snorted up a fair amount and 5 minutes later my heart was racing so fast I thought it was going to explode. A VERY nasty feeling. I started freaking out and had to sit down... the intensity wore off after about an hour... but be warned, if you do find some of that nice fluffy crystal, start off with SMALL amounts!!

If I were to concede that most or all speed you come across is meth then it would have to be more than just a matter of how much it's been cut.
I know that its possible to crush rock down, cut it and press it back up. However I've had some rock that was crystalline in nature, gummy, and basically impossible to have been cut. Needless to say it proved very worthwhile and tested quite nicely on the old tester kit.
However, as many individuals have pointed out, the stuff I had on NYE could have been cut with salts and whatnot, because it came to me in a powder form.
However this stuff shat on anything else I've ever had so heavily that I'm considering becoming a Bhudist monk and changing my name to Ramsese the Third.
Therefore if it is all meth (which I'm as yet undecided on), then it cannot simply be a matter of how much it has been cut, it must also be a matter of quality - the specifics of which confuse me greatly.
EDIT: Oh and finally, Meth is NOT an easier synth than amphetamine. They're essentially the same process, they just use slightly different precursors. In effect it would be easier to synth regular amphetamine.
[ 06 January 2002: Message edited by: Plague Bearer ]

If you're looking for variance in quality, it could possibly be the ratios of various isomers in your batch. Different synth routes produce different ratios, and some isomers are much more potent than others.
Just my 2 sheckles.

will do! I was just explaining why 99+% of wizz is methamphetamine (or meth, crank, speed, gas, ice or whatever your dealer's flavour of the month is).
My intention was to stop the spreading of misinformation.
i.e.
"Meth is NOT an easier synth than amphetamine."
Nads: name a few common synth routes besides RP and p2p where you can play with the isomer ratio.
reduction with HI produces just the d isomer with pseudoephedrine.
p2p produces the racemate (50% of d-meth and 50% l-meth) - dont think you can change this - it's a matter of the law of averages.
The d isomer is the one you want. So p2p is a lower quality product.
Was it ok to say that?^^^^
[ 07 January 2002: Message edited by: popper ]

Popper, your chemistry knowledge far surpasses mine. However after some quick reading at erowid I discovered that by using the exact same synth you mentioned first. Not the p2p one, using the first synth you can create d-amphetamine by exchanging the pseudoephedrine with another relative of ephedrine. One which is not regulated like pseudoephedrine is.
Therefore its the same synth, but with a precursor that is easier to aquire. Therefore its an easier synth.

Well that precursor you are talking about would have to be: ephedrine minus the methyl carbon - 2-amino-1-phenylpropan-1-ol;
You are still doing the same reduction to the molecule, i.e. replacing a hydroxyl group with a hydrogen.
This reaction would be AS easy in terms of chemistry, but you still have to get RP. An elf told me this is the hardest chem to get for this reaction, sudafed isn't that hard really, I've heard. I don't think making amphetamine this way is that common. Street gear is almost always methamphetamine - made in your local trailer park by the sudafed cronies.