Ecstasy - Some interesting points

I was just reading an article on escatsy and found these few comments...

According to a recent study in Brain Research, Prozac-style antidepressants
produce some morphological abnormalities in the serotonin nerve network of rats that resemble changes seen with Ecstasy taken in high levels. Yet few people advocate the banning of Prozac.

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Is this true???
Also i found this..

Can Ecstasy ever be a medicine, an aid to serious therapeutic investigations?
Some doctors think so. Richard Yensen, a Maryland therapist who in the 1970's
gave a drug similar to Ecstasy to his patients, has written, "MDMA comes as
close as possible to psychotherapy in a pill." How much different is Ecstasy
than legal psychotropic drugs — and would some mildly depressed people be better
off taking Ecstasy once in a while than Prozac every day for years? To address
these questions, a few human experiments with MDMA have taken place.
A government-approved study in Spain has just begun in which Ecstasy is being
offered to treat rape victims for whom no treatment has worked, based on the
premise that MDMA "reduces the fear response to a perceived emotional threat"
in therapy sessions. A Swiss study in 1993 yielded positive anecdotal evidence
on its effect on people suffering from post-traumatic stress disorder.
And a study in California may soon begin in which Ecstasy is administered to
end-stage cancer patients suffering from depression, existential crises and
chronic pain. The F.D.A. will be reviewing the protocol for Stage 2 of the trial;
results are expected in 2002.

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Does anyone know where you can find more info about these studies going on??
Thanks
Chem

Interesting...
Where did you find this article ??
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..the artist formerly known as the_Oracle

I found a few recently just by searching on yahoo and google, but i cant remember exactly what search terms i used.
just try stuff like ecstacy, neurotoxic (sp?), etc, etc.
Maxi

I'm not sure if I like the thought of a manic-depressive on a come down...

From my experience, you only come down if you go up too far. I think MDMA is potentially a very valid tool for psychotherapy given the right dose and the right environment. I look back to my days of suicidal thought and major depression (which wasn't that long ago - about this time last year), and then look at the way I am now. If I was asked to choose a key date where the major turn around occurred from pessimist to optimist, I can't seem to go past November 25th. This just so happens to be the night I first tried MDMA.
I'm not a doctor or a psychologist, and it's just as likely that a completely unrelated event caused that turn around. But the more I think about it, the more I believe that MDMA at least had something to do with it. Almost every moment since that date I've had a positive outlook on life and even though nothing really changed I no longer see myself as a failure. It's hard to attribute something like that to pure coincidence...

I know, I was kinda joking, it was also suggesting it for only mild depression.
It's certainly an interesting theory, and yeah I agree there's a good chance it could work I should think. But I've gotta say, I've never personally found the happiness effects of E long term.
Would be interesting to see though. And that's quite interesting, your own experiences with it Pleonastic.

i am bipolar (manic depressive)
i consider my life improved since i started taking mdma - but my life is improved for a host of other reasons also, many of which i accomplished myself
i think for some ppl, mdma works as a catalyst to enable the person to see things in a completely different way, an opportunity they didnt find elsewhere at the time they needed it.
for me, a lot of my catalyst was my manic highs, which served the same purpose - took me out of my terrible depression and showed me the world from a completely different place. md seems to work a lot that way too.
and if you are able to reflect on your experiences and learn from them, (conciously or not) then mdma (or mania heh) can be a wonderful tool. but i would *not* go recommending it to every depressed person i came across.. i think its a combination of the person, the point they are at, their individual makeup etc etc.. its not scientific!
i've heard plenty of anecdotes from ppl, including ppl w/ serious emotional probs like social phobia, finding a whole new spin on life from a single nite w/ mdma.
hey whatever works i think. i remember times of really really awful depression that i'll never return to, and i'm so very very thankful.
=)

This is a really interesting topic - I agree that everyone is different so you certainly can't generalise particularly not with emotional problems or serious social phobias etc but I know that one of my close friends was bi-polar and had DID (multiple personalities although only a very mild case) and extreme social phobias and they have definately levelled out since taking ecstasy. But I don't think the drug alone is the reason. I think the MDMA has kickstarted whatever imbalance was there and i don't think they'll ever go back to how it was before. And then the drugs helped them ignore their social phobias so that they got used to interracting with humans so that even without the drugs the phobias were gone.
So its a combined affect that in this persons case has led to them being fine now and rarely depressed at all like they used to be.
Drugs can definately affect yr chemical makeup for positive.
I think its kind of like women who have trouble with their periods (sorry guys to use a chick example) and then they have one child and everything works fine after that - gives the body a kickstart coz it jumpstarts the hormones and organs - i think drugs can also give yr brain a kickstart. But i think it can be for bad just as much as it can be for good - depending on the person and wether they go to excess, what other influences they have etc etc.
Interestingly before I started clubbing I could never sit still, I was extremely hyperactive and now I'm not. However if I have a break from drugs for too long I start becoming hyperactive again. Not sure if its coz the drugs are stabilizing me or if its coz I burn off my excess energy dancing. Just an interesting thing i thought i'd mention whilst we were on the topic.

I have this theory that MDMA assisted psychotherapy could be really helpful for people with personality disorders. It can take years of therapy for people to learn how to cope with personality disorders, but MDMA might be able to shorten that time, due to the benefits of gaining insight.
Just my 0.02c worth

Prozac is a SSRI (selective serotonin uptake inhibitor). It blocks the reuptake transporters into the neurones, trapping the serotonin in the synapse (the space between the neurones) making you feel happier longer! Prozac has a half life of 30hrs, so thats why people who need it take one a day to maintain that level of mood.
MDMA however induces the release of serotonin into the synapse, and you'll get the 'peak' effect. Then the reuptake transporters transport the serotonin molecules back into the serotonin neurone and MAOs break it down.
Incidentally if dopamine (which MDMA also induces the release of) gets back into the serotonin cell the MAOs break it down into bleach (hydrogen peroxide!)
So the two drugs work in totally different ways. One traps the existing serotonin,
the other causes massive doses of it to be released, that takes weeks to replenish.
http://www.dancesafe.org/slideshow/
check this website out if you haven't already.

...but mixing SSRIs and MDxx is dangerous.

ok.....yes long term use of ssri's leads to decreased amounts of seretonin, which is what many people claim is evidence of neurotoxicity. however most studies into neurotoxicity with mdma are flawed in both the methodology and interpretation.
i dont have time to go into it all now but (im?) currently completeing a 3000 word (3rd year pharmacy) project on MDMA including a breif history on why it was banned (unfairly) its potential medicinal uses, adverse effects recomendations for future studies etc. it should be completed in a few weeks. anyone interested in reading it? should i post it when complete?
nb. the info in the brackets () is fictional, the real authers have nothing to do with the fictional internet person calling himself/herself SirLSD.

Please post it when your finished. I'd love to have a read.

Shit yeah - you be posting that baby when you are done and done.

Yep, definitely post it....I'm trying to do some research into neurones, specifically how sodium valproate (which is sold in pharmacies as epilim) effects the neurones, and how MDMA mixes with it.... any ideas SirLSD?

sirLSD you can email me when you post it. or post it to my email.
oh god. do i not want to miss that thread.

lea, im assuming you have epilepsy? yes? if so can u gve me a little personal medical history, because ofcourse u know MDMA and stimulants can induce siezures .
ie how long ago were u diagnosed. epilim the only med youve been on for it?
how well has it controlled siezures? frequency of seizures? circumstances surrounding any siezures while on epilim?
when/if i get time i will look into it a little bit for you and give u a little info/advice. but ive been very buisy lately so dont expect much
SirLSD
[This message has been edited by SirLSD (edited 15 September 2001).]

I would be very interested to read it when you've finished SirLSD.
I know my life HAS GREATLY improved since i started taking mdma with a sensible attitude- but my life has improved for a host of other reasons also, many of which i accomplished myself because e has changed my way of thinking(shown me the light).I no longer let my own thoughts intesify to the point where I can't control them.I AM NOW IN CONTROL & alot more relaxed & enjoying life 100% more. Never been so more content & I believe if I was never to use e again I would not return to my original state.
Though I think you have know what you are trying to change in your head & be keen to achieve it otherwise i believe it is just good for the then & there empathy.
If or when a medical reason for this arises for this I would love to hear about it.
I HAVE NEVER SEEN THE WORLD LOOK SO BRIGHT
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** IT'S ALL GOOD **
[This message has been edited by Terry (edited 16 September 2001).]

The State of Ecstasy Conference has personal accounts of using MDMA as an aid to post traumatic stress disorder and palliative care therapies. Marcela Ot'alora, Susan Stevens and Ann Shulgin, all give memorable talks of how MDMA has affected their lives.
Listening to Marcela, you will get her view that MDMA should not be taken outside a clinical setting, as she feels the value of the first experiences is not only wasted, but for her was incredibly traumatic.
Susan Stevens talk is very sad but very beautiful and will touch your heart. Well worth the listen.
http://www.drugpolicy.org/ecstasy/conf_program.html
phase_dancer

Yep, I was diagnosed with petit mal (absences) epilepsy about ten years ago when I was ten years old. I have been on epilim since then, on vaying doses. But it has developed into grand mal epilepsy, (full-blown seizurs)I've had about 5 full blown seizures, two before even touching any chemicals and I think three since. Speed affects my epilepsy WAY more than e ever has. I've actually never had a problem with e. But I've had one speed-induced fit. It was after a night on the goey anyway. I take 800mg of sodium valproate a day, and during the last ten years that dose has gone up and down. I was pretty zombied out as a kid.
yeah, but anyway, any insights into anything would be appreciated. I've done first year cell biology at uni, so i've got a bit of a grasp on the concepts of the science behind it. Thanks heaps