V

I saw Ur post on meetups and experiences man and U mentioned this anti asian thing happening in so Ca. Can U please explain, I'm just worried and annoyed that humans can actually travel back in time and ignorance.
Surely they can not and MUST not blame a single race or creed for some flaws of the general public or the scene. Wot was done that was so bad.
It pisses me off cos I am a strong advocate for this issue. As humans pplz shouldn't be racist (though this is easier said then done) but I would hardly expect this from ravers please fellow brethrens on this earth eplain to me wtf is going on.
PeaceOut

Hi Dru,
Sucks, but true. Within the last year raves have seriously started becoming trendy and more mainstream and because of that, there's been a large influx of newbies. Unfortunately, the most noticable ones are the asians.
And with most new ravers, it takes them awhile to catch onto the plur and to understand about moderation and taking it easy on the drugs. At most of the large raves now, there are large e-puddles(groups of floored ravers) in the middle of the dance floor and in front of the speakers, which annoys dancers to no end. And although these e-puddles come in all shapes and sizes, because there are so many asians, they've been targeted as the scapegoats.
Everyone's crying about the "asian invasion" and it really bothers me. I'm asian and i've been partying way before this whole asian invasion thing and people that wouldn't have hesitated to smile and say hi before, won't now. I'm just hoping this will all past soon.

I hear U V, but I think it is wrong and very anti PLUR in itself to blame it on a certain group or race of pplz for the short comings of the scene.
It is a global trend that raves or any other form of electronic parties are getting popular/mainstream/commercial/cheesy- wotever U want to call it "shit happens".
With the influx of newbies to the scene we can't expect them to go soft, did U when U first started- of course not, I admit I got floored once or twice... hundreds. I loved it, the only reason I became smart about my drugs and LIFE was because I was showed the way by oldskoolers and fellow ravers. Now all ravers, rollers or woteva don't just ignore that aspect of the scene. They will soon enough learn the PLUR yet it will do no good if any groups (Asians in this case) are scapegoated and blamed for not knowing.
It may be argued that it should be common courtesy to not get floored on dancing areas but when U are fubar or just god damn "peaking" I don't think that would be the first thing on Ur mind. If a person was to say to these groups politely that the "area is better for dancing rather than sitting" then I'm sure they would be more than happy to obliged. Can it be more simpler than this?
Now for my two cents who cares can we all get together and PLUR. Wot is classified dancing area or not in a rave? Can U tell me that? If this e puddle business is a crime then I'm sure EVERYONE IS GUILTY of this. Sometimes I get tired or just "so lost" all I wanna do is sit wit all my friends and bob our heads, talk, massage and spin each other out. I see plenty of other groups doing the same yet coz I'm asian some mutha is gonna say (and yes it has happened to me) "move man I can't dance wit U sitting there". Wtf this shit pisses me off.
If U are reading this and are going wtf then I will now say that I am not writing this to piss pplz off or U V. Merely saying my views on rascism and the scene. No body is perfect, no group nor race is perfect we are created equal in our lords eyes. So please spread the PLUR around and everyone don't just rave and roll. Instead PLUR and live.
PeaceOut

At zen fest id say at least half the people there were asain, and, in general, there were no problems...
As for "e-puddles", i didnt realize that was a big problem. i LOVE getting floored and sitting by the speakers....hats half the fun. and, no, im not asain, in case you were wondering....not that that matters.
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Life is just better with porn stars
-EckstashE-

I see what everyone is saying, and i have to agree with both sides. (I am american born chinese, in case it matters to someone.) i think the observations V had, or at least in my opinion, are somewhat valid. Especially in so cal, where i feel there are alot more young asian ravers, alot of them are getting a taste of drugs and freedom for the first time and are running with it. What else i have noticed is that there are alot more immigrant, poorer kids who may not have a great home life escaping to raves. However, alot of the hostility from home and environment is brought to the raves. Alot of the younger kids who may not have it so easy, are not as courteous nor as respectful. Put it this way...for those of us who grew up in conservative cultures and families, how in the F*** do you get out at 16 or 17 and stay out til the early morning and not get crap from the family? I would have been chained and beaten blue. I think alot of the kids are just finding an escape from reality and dont know much better than to do what they want when they want. If i could, i would try to tell them how it should be (the only time i say something to anyone is when there is a dance circle and someone has the rudeness to walk through the middle slowly..arrg i'd clothesline 'em if i could), but with those who come from harsh environments, it would probably only make them hostile..i say let us be the example setters, befriend them and instruct them when we can...otherwise, let them be and move to a spot that makes you feel happier. Who wants to roll and have to be irritated by anything or anyone, regardless of race, or gender.....
Much love to the lil lost brothers and sisters who just don't get it yet....

Another reason why there's so much hate at raves now are because of the little kids who are always trying to start stuff with people. It's so sad. Can you believe we've actually had people get knifed and killed at raves? All because some guy looked at another's girl wrong..what the phuck is this? Raves were never like this when I started and it's sad to see how they've digressed.
I guess you can say I'm very bitter because my boyfriend was jumped at the end of a rave by four kids who looked like they still belonged in high school. He spent rest of the morning and afternoon in the emergency room thanks to a 2x4.
The funny thing is..ALL the violence occurs at Friday parties. For some reason, the friday and saturday partiers are very different and they attract different crowds.
My two cents.

Godamn white man always try and blame us for everything. Fuck you, your wide eyed women with their cooked flesh make me want to vomit.
What are you talking about you like white girls?
Who said that. huiguihrghgruihgrgrhuivgrihuuivihi
Split personality, sorry. Ok here in Hawaii that doesnot seem to be a problem. Mainly because Asians are a healthy percent of the population. But the problem is that with new people to the scene, there's some who are cool, theres some who aren't. Blaming it on asians is bullshit, because over here everyone blames it on white military guys. But thats because their just dumb grunts more than anything else. Some are real fucking cool about plur though.
What was I saying?
Ohh yeah, that sucks about Cali, but if your ever in Hawaii, then post here first, we'll meet up and discuss the political situation in bosnia over some dim sum.. (Actually code for taking over the world Hahahahahahaahahahahaha).

whats up V,
yea sorry to hear about all the violence down that way. I haven't heard nor seen much violence up here for that kind of stuff. My lil cousin told me how people were gettting stabbed down there and how the E down there was kinda dirty. I worry about that for him. Good thing he's coming up for turkey day and im gonna hook him up with some close to pure stuff and show him to what i hope are some good raves. I think some of the kids there are just to deal or represent their set. Too bad a few bad apples has to ruin it for others.
Take care and play safe.

The same goes here in Toronto. People are complaining about there being way too many asians in the scene all of a sudden, and it bothers me that people are using asian people and people of asian descent as scapegoats for the commercialization of raves.
First of all, people shouldn't complain about newcomers to the scene, because we have all been new to it at one point. And second of all, race has nothing to do with the exploitation of our subculture. There are a lot of people who party now, and who can blame them? The real problem people of the scene are the ones that disrespect it, like people who steal, knowingly sell BAD drugs, the ones who jump people leaving the party. The bad attitudes towards others, the immature high school raver cliques who are still into ridiculing and shit-talking others who aren't 'cool' enough. And lets not forget the stupid people who try to prove how brave and strong they are by taking 15 pills, an eight-ball of crystal, 6 caps of G, 2 vials of K, 9 hits of acid in one night and end up in a pile of their own vomit, unconscious. And when those dumb people don't wake up they draw negative to the scene, because its all in the newspapers, and the local governments consider placing a ban on raves. Those types of people stated above are the problems of the scene, and I know for a fact, that THEY COME IN EVERY COLOUR.

Well I am a white Australian woman and I am bloody annoyed after reading these posts...some of you should be bloody ashamed of yourselves!!!!
Fistly Vicks!!
How dare you say 'your wide eyed women with their cooked flesh make me want to vomit'...
That is racist, derogatory, demeaning and disgusting!!!!! I have lost a lot of respect for you after you used such language!!! AND I do NOT care if you are joking - it is NOT funny!!!!
Reverse discrimination is still discrimination and I WILL NOT TOLERATE IT!!!
I take extreme offence to what you wrote because I am a wide eyed woman (I think) and because I abhore such things being said about ANYONE or ANY GROUP!!!! SHAME SHAME SHAME!!
As for V - are YOU racist?? And what are you getting at?? 'The most noticable ones are the asians'. and 'it takes them a while to catch on to the plur'??? You are obviously accusing SOMEONE of attacking asians. WHo??? Is it other asians? - I doubt it!! So who??? Is it non asians? Whites?? Are your comments simply a well disguised racisim with you implying how awful non-asians (probably whites) are to asians? This is also reverse discrimination and I TAKE OFFENCE.
Many white people are NOT racists!!!! Racists, like victims, come in ALL COLOURS, SHAPES AND SIZES (even fat ones!!!)!!!!
I have met a few racist asians in my time however I did not assume 'every asian' was racist based on those few. That would be generalising - wouldn't it???
I think discussions like this only encourage racism and I think it is disgusting!!!!! Just because a couple of people say 'asian invasion' (which is F***ing disgusting!!) doesn't mean you need to decide 'everyone's crying "asian invasion"'. I am sure it is only a certain number who are racist like this not EVERYONE!!! Two wrongs DO NOT make a right and your coloured skin does not give YOU the right to GENERALISE either!!!!!!!!
I take great offence at being called racist and imagine many white people (and possibly darker people) in your part of the world would take extreme offence to you calling them (as they are a subset of the non asian 'everyone' which you refer to) racist!!!!
If you are so into plur - get off it and stop generalising and creating trouble!@!!!
If there really is trouble please show me and others the evidence NOT JUST your OPINION BASED ON OBSERVATION OF A FEW!!!!! I wnat statistics. How many make yop the 'everyone'? Has anyone done a survey with a scientifically or statistically relevant sample space?? Or are you going on hearing four or five passers by say something???
AND to Lft4u2imgn - I was brought up in a family of anglo saxon celtic second generation Australians and my family was also CONSERVATIVE!! Do you think non-whites are the only people to have conservative home lives??? - gimme a break!!!!!! Get over yourselves please!!!! At 17 I would not have even thought to leave home for a rave!!!!!
Please - you do not realise it but you are all generalising about everyone!!!!!! You are being racist!!!!!!!
DO NOT ASSUME TO KNOW EVERYONE ELSE!!!!!
Helski

hey helski - i'm with you. vicks - wide eyed women????
come on man.
a free party means a no selection party. if a few of the crowd are assholes or racist, or don't like other parts of the crowd, they'll stop coming, eventually.
over here (Israel), the only place nobody gives a fuck who you are (even celebrities) is at raves.
That's why we keep on coming.
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rESPRCT
http://listen.to/djvu

OHHHHHHH, shit ok my bad
The thing about the wide eyed women with their warmed up flesh was supposed to say "wide eyed women with their warmed up fish" it was from the movie eric the red, which was fucking hilarious, but which I keep forgetting that fucking nobody ever saw.
I didn't mean it honestly, I like white women, hell my moms white and I have an oedipus complex. Just kidding. well I mean my mom is white, but I don't want to .... well you know. Shit I was fucking around.
Listen I take a lot of liberty with racial things because to me it's all bullshit. For one thing I got way to many races mixed up in me to point at one race and say there's my heritage. So I never really Identified with any one section of my heritage as anything more than a punchline. What fucking retard actually would take any meaning in something as ridiclously obtuse as the color of the penis they came spurting out of.
I realize this seems offensive to many people, and I apologize to them. And a little bit of it is the fact that I stepped over the line here. I'm sorry. When I say shit like that it's in a mocking manner. Not mocking white people or asians or whatever but mocking people who actually identify themselves by a sense of group belonging based purely on race. That's crap.
I realize for a lot of people that race is a big fucking deal, but fuck them. The type of people I've hung around all my life are fucking jumbled up racially,half this quarter that, eighth this. And it matters all to fuck. When we think of ourselves or others we don't say Korean, White, Black, Japanese. It's raver, dope fiend, punker, student, writer or e-tard. Sometimes I forget that other people still have a big problem with it, and then shit like this happens.
Ok and my point about the military guys was about reverse racism. People here assume that all white guys at raves are military and therefor dickheads. Partly true. However they then assume that all white people are military dicks, therfor treat them shabbily if thewy don't know them. It's fucked up. My point was that it's stupid to blame a racial group for shit like that.
Finally a little bit about humor. Why is it that people always say that you can't joke about race. It's meaningless. Absoloutly meaningless. Race should serve no fucking perpose at all. Culture, the way you were raised in yes, but race. Fucking ridiculous. People take their own race and the race of others to seriously, thats why there is racism. Thats why I joke about it, to make it not a fucking issue, to make it unimportant.
Ok that was way to long.
Sorry if I offended people, that wasn't my intent.

Vicks,
I now understand better where you are coming from.
However, I would appreciate it if you would remember that humor or winking etc is not easy to get over electronic media......I could not tell your comments were intended as humor. Mind you - as I said - it was in my opinion not funny as it was a little over the top (which I thinkk you agreed with). However it is obvious that you meant no offence so I am over it.
I agree with much of what you said. In fact you wrote very well about the issue of race in your last post. Race should not be an issue and I agree that some people make it such when it should not be one - that was my point also. I think we shouldn;t have these 'she said / he said' conversations as they are inane, pointless and end up casuing trouble as they tend towards generalising. If we were to have such conversations I think it best in person so terms can be defined and meanings relayed as accurately as possible.
At the end of the day some people attack fat people others skinny people - some people pick on talkative people others quiet people - others single out people with big noses etc etc...it just goes on and on. Hell once it was aliens ...and once communists. A favourite of our modern society is druggies - don't you think????!!!!
Another unfortunate group who cop it in Australia sometimes from a few TV personalities (Stan - for those in Aussie land) are single mums living on social security. Boy - they are called 'bluggers'.
People on the dole are also often referred to over here as 'bluggers' by some. Some of my friends who labelled people on the dole (as a whole) as 'bluggers' were asked by me 'who did they know personally on the dole who was a blugger? Of course they could not name one such 'blugger'. So then I asked... 'so how do you know there is even one 'blugger' out there'? The really intelligent answer I got from one university educated person was 'I just know!!' - Beautiful - you gotta wonder why we spend the tax dollars on some people's education!!!
I wish people could just stop hating one another and loving each other instead. Hell I would settle for liking each other. No - even that is too idealistic - I would settle for tolerating each other!!

little miss pedantic apple here.....
ummm...helski...I think you mean 'bludgers'...calling my brother a 'blugger' would have prompted much laughter instead of the boring comebacks and excuses he comes up with lately Yes, he is on the dole. he has been for years. He had a job....as a shift working janitor at the Brisbane casino 25 hours a week. He was given a month's stress leave from the job as a counsellor said that the shift work was making him stressed. He then resigned after taking the month's pay from the casino and promptly went back on the dole. Yes, I'm afraid bludgers do exist. they just prefer to call themselves 'up and coming musicians'. Don't get me wrong, maybe one day he will be rich and famous. And that's when I'll be asking for some repayment for my tax dollars that have gone to paying for his pot. I should just make an arrangement with the tax office for me to pay him directly and not pay tax. Then maybe his pot can be a tax deduction.
sorry helski....I just had to point it out
miss apple
[This message has been edited by miss apple (edited 15 November 1999).]

A (hopefully) quick reply..
First of all, my opinion was asked by someone on the board. I didn't come on and start spouting a bunch of anti-minority sentiments. I was trying to convey what I thought and what I saw in the So Cal scene right now.
The most noticeable newbies in the scene ARE asian. Remember WWII and how it was only the Japanese that were put away into concentration camps? Why? because they're the ones that looked the most different.
It takes EVERY new person in the scene awhile to catch onto the plur. It takes quite a few nights floored to realize it's about a lot more than just the drugs.
I'm sorry that you're halfway across the globe and can't experience the So Cal scene for yourself. It has it's great points, but for some reason, there are always divisions within it. We have the junglists vs. the candykids..we have the househeads vs. the tranceheads..and we have the long-stepping nordic trackers vs. the glowstickers..and we have the anti-asian thing going.
No where in my post did I say it was a white vs. asian thing. NOWHERE. I take offense that you would assume that. For your information, more than it being a white vs. asian thing, it's an asian vs. asian thing and that's what I can't stand. You have the chinese vs. korean...the vietnamese vs. korean..the american-born vs. the foreign-born. shiet. you have it all. I'm Vietnamese, and my boyfriend was jumped by four korean kids. Where did the white folks ever come in?
These newbies are coming into the scene with their violence and their separatists ideas (granted there are exceptions)and it only takes one person being killed before everyone starts to look at you twice. You have one asian crew kill someone and before you know it, everyone else (whites, blacks, mexicans, whatever) are looking at all asians a little more hesitantly. I've never bad-vibed anyone in my three years of partying, but to see that hesitation in people's faces kills me. And that includes whites, blacks, and even other asians.
Helski, I am sorry you were offended, but my comments were never aimed at anyone or at any particular minority. I'm sorry you were offended, but I don't take back anything I say.

miss apple
I think you missed my point. I am not saying there are no 'bludgers' but that evidence that ONE person on the dole (or even a few you may know) does not warrent (excuse sp) attacking all those on the dole as 'bludgers'. I am attacking those that generalise about less fortunates in our society. People that take a couple and then extrapolate to the many which often causes biggotry etc (ex spelling).
I am sure your brother may be a bludger (ex spelling) but it doesn't mean all those on the dole are.
And anyway there is a very strong arguement for providing a social security net to those not wanting to participate in regular work (for later).
Also..perhaps your brother actually adds value through the arts etc.....(another long story).
There is a reason why LA and New York have such huge crime/riot problems that the swedish and other European nations don't have.
Helski

Vicks: To answer Ur question the post is in the meetups section titled "rave questions" by V.
V
It's a pity I can't experience the So Cal scene for myself with all scenes I'm sure it has it's Xcellent sides and bad sides. As far as subculture bitchin is concerned we get that stuff happening here as well (in sydney). Yet when party time comes, the majority of the times we all get along and just party really hard.
The anti asian sentiment is confined to a small minority here (thank god for our tolerance and our multicutural pop.). I asked U the question out of mere interest coz it must've been quite significant an observation for U to mention.
It's a shame that violence is one the rise as a result of the popularity of techno and many non PLUR pplz. Regardless it is always the case of the minority causing the damage for the majority, and the general pplz not realising this and just ASSuming it is a certain group.
Helski
I can sympathise with Ur reactions and views. I agree race should not be an issue. Yet as I said before "shit happens" and sometimes we must deal with them or sometimes we just have to tolerate it. Now I took interest of this coz for V to mention this "anti asian" it must have been fairly significant and I also feel strongly for this cause. Is that a crime? To say that "discussions like this only encourage racism" would be turning a blind eye or dare I say just oppressing pplz freedom of speech. I'm sure we are not saying that everyone is accusing anyone of anything. Yet if we do not discuss these things. How else do we raise this issue, try and spread the PLUR around. Sure we may have approached it badly but we tried. heck it raised Ur noble views and also others, so in a way it is effective.
As for U need for scientific proof that pplz are being predjudice etc... U don't need numbers to experience the efects of discrimination. All U need is one fucken asshole (or vibe). Take Stan Grant for example. Now one narrow minded person in a position of power is labelling pplz without proper justification. Now that one person will lead to many others I assure U.
All in all yes I realsie pplz will generalise. Whether they know or not. I am just trying to get the point across that we should try not to discriminate and just tolerate each other.
Australians are pretty lucky that we live in a tolerating society and multicultural environment
PeaceOut
[This message has been edited by dru (edited 16 November 1999).]
[This message has been edited by dru (edited 16 November 1999).]