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BiG StroOnZ
19-06-2009, 04:39
After conducting some research, it appears it is a precursor to MDxx and much of the "molly" or said "MDMA powder" that is out there is actually synthesized from this.

Then doing a little more research resulted in discovering plenty of positive experiences with the bark and leaves off of Erowid.org (in tea form and smoked):

http://www.erowid.org/experiences/subs/exp_Sassafras.shtml

From the data I collected elsewhere, it appears that Safrole is deemed carcinogenic. However, I'm wondering if this is mainly with the Essential Oil? Considering that there are plenty of websites that sell both the bark/root and the leaves, whilst recommending tea dosages. Even some say take daily, although of course only one to two teaspoons as apposed to 5-10 grams :D

I know it's going to take a decent amount of a concentrated brew to make the Tea worthwhile (like a light - moderate MDMA/MDA experience).

The question is how carcinogenic is the bark or leaves in humans? I mean is it really that much worse on the liver than one night of drinking ethyl-alcohol (Alcohol)?

psycosynthesis
19-06-2009, 06:01
There's some discussion of this in AUDD: http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showthread.php?t=441852

BiG StroOnZ
19-06-2009, 06:49
^thank you, if anyone else cares to chime in from PD please do so.

Actually not really all that much info that helps answer my questions.

andreas
19-06-2009, 09:31
The ancient south Americans used it( the tea) for thousands of years.They had tribal governments where the members/elders of each tribe had to be 100 years old(dont know how true this is but I was told by a good source).They had very low rates of cancer in their societies and had an average life expectancy far greater than europe.DRINK THE TEA!... its just government properganda, fuck it wouldnt surprise me if the tea has anti-cancer properties.If you are unsure of freaquency ask a shaman or some kind of an elder. My mates mother said she drank it offter as a child before moving to Australia

Whatsamatau
19-06-2009, 20:09
Concentrating raw sassafrass still will not get you high. It takes chemical synthesis to derive the benifits from the essential oil's aromatic ring.
I think even attempting to drink the oil would be toxic.

Why does this keep coming back UTFSE!

BiG StroOnZ
19-06-2009, 21:34
^This isn't true according to the trip reports though.

Of course the Essential Oil would be toxic to drink, but then again why would Vitamin Shops be selling Sassafras liquid in a dropper as a Male Aphrodisiac :\

Whatsamatau
20-06-2009, 00:16
^This isn't true according to the trip reports though.

Of course the Essential Oil would be toxic to drink, but then again why would Vitamin Shops be selling Sassafras liquid in a dropper as a Male Aphrodisiac :\

Not saying that historically it hasn't been used for all kinds of medicinal purposes but I thought you were specifically looking for a mild MDA/MDMA experience. I really don't think there will be any activity and anecdotal evidence to the contrary is just that.

BiG StroOnZ
20-06-2009, 00:29
^One of the experiences reported using 1 lb of bark, making a brew. (10 g of it is like 3 dollars, but he had his from a fresh source)

The concoction resulted in a similar MDxx experience, as he described; worded just like that. This user claims he only had one cup of the tea, but drank it down all at once.

I was planning on making a large concentrated brew using both the leaves and bark. Then bottling it for storage and usage. Assuming that more, will make it closer and closer to an actual MDxx experience. Most of these people start off with a large amount of leaves or bark and then end up only having a cup of tea with it.

I would plan on having more than one :D

ungelesene_bettlek
20-06-2009, 00:55
nutmeg contains the same active compounds, and I've never read a trip report that compared it with MDMA.

potent_elixa
20-06-2009, 00:57
after looking, reading and listening to all sorts of info, sassafras has to be the type that contains safrole and plenty of it also, ie there are different species, the best apparently being the brazillian type highest in safrole apprx 80%. It is the safrole that is the main starter for the chemical mdma and 1 would say then the feeling also. Sassafras can also be artifical ie. saffrole free which then is legal. Sassafras is one of the essential (potent active elements) in the drink, ROOT BEER. I hear though that this drink has also been changed to include an artificial substitute for sassafras. In other words drinking it probably made you feel good (mdma feelings) and now guess what? It wont. Apparently it is also a speciality in homebrewed moonshine. Look for some and try it!

potent_elixa
20-06-2009, 01:00
Nutmeg is supposed to only generate any type of mdma rush when you have large quantity of it but dont fancy snortuing it or anything else to be honest; a rule of thumb for the amount is something stupid like 10g for every 10lbs body weight so your looking at upto 200g of nutmeg like a nine bar of nutmeg. HOLY FUCK THAT!

swilow
20-06-2009, 01:01
nutmeg contains the same active compounds, and I've never read a trip report that compared it with MDMA.

Nutmeg (and mace) contain myristicin. Sassafras mainly contains safrole. Either way, the safrole doesn't have any -phen componenets, just the metheleny-dioxy part (very scientistic I am).

potent_elixa
20-06-2009, 01:10
yes but that said there must be something real good from the sassafras ie to give it is following outside of the mdma synthesis like its use in the root beer and moonshine also the well being properties its given by people for many years , it also has aphrodisiac properties, maybe its a start to that horned up club feeling when all the babes start rockin,

BiG StroOnZ
20-06-2009, 01:14
...the brazillian type highest in safrole apprx 80%.

So Brazilian bark and leaves would be a good start.



...Either way, the safrole doesn't have any -phen componenets, just the metheleny-dioxy part (very scientistic I am).

Considering I'm making a brew, that would equate to MDxx. I'm wondering what I could substitute for the -phen part that comes naturally in a plant.

Perhaps adding Ephedra sinica and viridis in combination could work making it an "MDMAyahuasca" Although, this brew would end up being closer to MDE or MDA if anything, right?

pharmakos
20-06-2009, 01:15
Nutmeg is supposed to only generate any type of mdma rush when you have large quantity of it but dont fancy snortuing it or anything else to be honest; a rule of thumb for the amount is something stupid like 10g for every 10lbs body weight so your looking at upto 200g of nutmeg like a nine bar of nutmeg. HOLY FUCK THAT!

The rule is actually 1g per 10lbs of body weight. Please no one take 200g of nutmeg, you'd probably die.

potent_elixa
20-06-2009, 01:19
the safrole is amber red in colour

you also have a spice named saffron ( similar name , maybe more??)
when you skip through the spices in a store most look mundane in colour or dark / dull but when you catch sight of saffron ( it kinda gleems and glows amber at you, looks like the kinda of colour that good things might start with. Looks nice to me anyhow.

i found this text on it also ; curiously entertaining;

In late Hellenistic Egypt, Cleopatra used saffron in her baths so that lovemaking would be more pleasurable

potent_elixa
20-06-2009, 01:24
yes sorry if i got my quants all fucked up i was only trying to remember, if only that would happen to all the scores i went to! i would never be away!

seriously my apologies wasnt trying to fuck someone up! but im a grown up now and should have known better>>

respect

potent_elixa
20-06-2009, 01:25
mind you thinking about that with the right ratio that still heading for like an oz of nutmeg! HOLY ALMOST FUCK THAT!

swilow
20-06-2009, 01:27
Considering I'm making a brew, that would equate to MDxx. I'm wondering what I could substitute for the -phen part that comes naturally in a plant.

Perhaps adding Ephedra sinica and viridis in combination could work making it an "MDMAyahuasca" Although, this brew would end up being closer to MDE or MDA if anything, right?

Hmm. I really dion't know enough about pharmacology to be honest...but perhaps using plain PEA or even dl-phenylalanine could create "something" in combo with safrole. Either way, you need something to methylate it.... Tread cautiously. I think our livers can create alpha-methly compounds, but I am ver vague as to how or why or if, even. Maybe post in ADD?

swilow
20-06-2009, 01:30
In late Hellenistic Egypt, Cleopatra used saffron in her baths so that lovemaking would be more pleasurable

Saffron isn't sassafrass or safrole though....It actually has anti-carcinogenic properties, unlike safrole.

BiG StroOnZ
20-06-2009, 01:36
Hmm. I really dion't know enough about pharmacology to be honest...but perhaps using plain PEA or even dl-phenylalanine could create "something" in combo with safrole. Either way, you need something to methylate it.... Tread cautiously. I think our livers can create alpha-methly compounds, but I am ver vague as to how or why or if, even. Maybe post in ADD?

I was thinking of adding DL-Phenylalanine not into the brew but taking it before hand. Didn't think of Phenylethylamine (but you can get bulk pure PEA for cheap), but DL-Phenylalanine could definitely work.

An easy solution would be using a sugar substitute like Equal because it contains DL-Phenylalanine and I would imagine I'll end up needing much of it to make the brew decent tasting.

Maybe moving this over to ADD is a good idea though, would like to keep it in the brew although I don't mind taking something before I drink it.

swilow
20-06-2009, 01:49
I'll move it over there (ADD) simply because our speculation, whilst very intriguing, may do harm :D

Shiftin'====>ADD

Nibiru
20-06-2009, 02:04
I know of folks who've consumed strong sassafras tea for it's flavour or medicine. I've drank it myself a few times, before my source for rootbark dried up. It tastes good, but isn't psychoactive, outside of the sort of indirect effect that many pleasant smelling aromatics can have on a person's mood. There are plenty of aromatic compounds that look sort of like phenethylamines. It doesn't mean that they will necessarily do things to you that will be like a phenethylamine high. The idea that you can hit the right combo of enyme inhibitors and wierd terpenes and stuff in a curry to make you trip off it is always a wild piece of speculation I've enjoyed thinking about though. A good garam masala can give you a wierd rushy feeling and bring your body temperature up, hence the name (garam=warm, masala=spice mixture).

As for toxicity I think that if the government is going to let people smoke and drink, yet ban sassafras for liver toxicity and carcinogenisis, they can go to hell. I wouldn't drink it every day, but I wouldn't be scared of it.

BiG StroOnZ
20-06-2009, 03:02
^So what you're basically saying is

My "MDMAyahuasca" isn't possible and I'll go through a lot of work without worthwhile results?

Hammilton
20-06-2009, 03:59
Yeah I feel fairly certain this is nonsense.

just taking phenethylamine or something isn't going to make this MDMA.

You need to attach a methylamine group AND an alpha methyl group.

BiG StroOnZ
20-06-2009, 04:21
^Uhm what are you talking about... everybody in this thread realizes this.

This has nothing to do with actually synthesizing MDMA by just "throwing random plants together." This is about combining certain plants, that contain specific compounds in a brew that would give an experience that would be similar to MDMA.

Hammilton
20-06-2009, 05:26
Apparently they don't

I hate when long threads get moved here because it just draws in people who have no idea what they're talking about.

BiG StroOnZ
20-06-2009, 05:43
^I think you just skimmed through this thread and for some reason got aggravated by what you thought you saw....

Smyth
20-06-2009, 12:31
the active constituent of tarragon is also deemed to be "carcinogenic."

I think this reason has been used against safrole to try and clamp down with the legislation, possible scaremongering.

Chloroform is also carcinogenic and is added to cough syrup.

I really see no reason why sassafras flavoring of root beer should be banned.

BiG StroOnZ
20-06-2009, 18:45
^there's a trip report on erowid.org, positive experience.

Actually all the experiences on erowid.org are positive experiences, and make out Sassafras to be worthwhile.

Which confuses me as to some of the posts in this thread, because they directly conflict...

kidamnesiac
20-06-2009, 19:35
If you're going to to it, fucking do it already and quit asking about it and then arguing with people that tell you it isn't going to work. You will not die from acute effects. You will experience psychedelic placebo combined with the effects of slamming your body with a toxin. Enjoy.

Riemann Zeta
20-06-2009, 22:15
^This isn't true according to the trip reports though. (Way Up There)
Isolated non-placebo "controlled" reports from a couple discrete individuals and a larger consortium of "reports" from stoned teenagers typing bullshit into the tubes does not constitute real empirical evidence. As a friend of mind likes to put it: the plural of anecdote is not data.

In summary: "sass" is a slang/street term for MDMA blended with an unknown amount of MDA (and likely some unreacted precursors, because the final product was never properly cleaned and recrystallized). The existence of this slang does not mean that chugging liters of safrole (3,4-methylenedioxyphenyl-propene) will cause an MDA-like experience. Given how virtually translucent and 'non-altering' (in the psychedelic perceptual sense) empathogens are, it is so likely that in a large group of people trying this, some will exhibit genuine placebo responses. Same phenomenon as the so-called 'contact high.'

BiG StroOnZ
21-06-2009, 00:18
^So you're saying that it's a only a placebo and contact highs are a placebo... 8)


If you're going to to it, fucking do it already and quit asking about it and then arguing with people that tell you it isn't going to work. You will not die from acute effects. You will experience psychedelic placebo combined with the effects of slamming your body with a toxin. Enjoy.

relax, and safrole being toxic is not entirely factual

and please elaborate on this so called, "psychedelic placebo" that doesn't even make any sense

andreas
21-06-2009, 14:16
Myristicin and elemicin are phenylallyl derivatives present in nutmeg. The similarity of their chemical structure to that of mescaline or certain amphetamine derivatives has led to the assumption that the psychotropic effect of nutmeg in man is due to amphetamine derivatives endogenously produced from these phenylallyl precursors by bio-transformation. In our present study we investigated the metabolism of myristicin by rat liver, using the isolated perfused liver or incubation of liver homogenate. We have experimentally proved for the first time that rat liver is capable of converting myristicin into 3-methoxy-4,5-methylenedioxyamphetamine (MMDA). Identification of MMDA was achieved by two-dimensional thin-layer chromatography of the dansylated amine and further by mass spectroscopy

No reason why safrole cannot undergo the same enzymatic conversion to MDA. I know a friend who took some safrole and tripped quite hard.

lOOK IF YOU JUST WANT TO DRINK THE TEA LIKE I SAID BEFORE.......go ahead its been done for thousands of years

IGNVS
21-06-2009, 20:20
safrol couldnt be any more toxic than mda...

Nibiru
23-06-2009, 06:03
Myristicin and elemicin are phenylallyl derivatives present in nutmeg. The similarity of their chemical structure to that of mescaline or certain amphetamine derivatives has led to the assumption that the psychotropic effect of nutmeg in man is due to amphetamine derivatives endogenously produced from these phenylallyl precursors by bio-transformation. In our present study we investigated the metabolism of myristicin by rat liver, using the isolated perfused liver or incubation of liver homogenate. We have experimentally proved for the first time that rat liver is capable of converting myristicin into 3-methoxy-4,5-methylenedioxyamphetamine (MMDA). Identification of MMDA was achieved by two-dimensional thin-layer chromatography of the dansylated amine and further by mass spectroscopy

No reason why safrole cannot undergo the same enzymatic conversion to MDA. I know a friend who took some safrole and tripped quite hard.

lOOK IF YOU JUST WANT TO DRINK THE TEA LIKE I SAID BEFORE.......go ahead its been done for thousands of years

There have been a number of studies done on safrole's metabolism in order to understand it's mechanism of carcinogenesis, and none of them have indicated that it is metabolized into an amphetamine. Moreover, although that in vitro study showed a metabolism into MMDA by a rat liver, it is widely thought, due to what we know about the way many aromatics are metabolized in vivo by humans, that a conversion of myristicin into MMDA in humans is unlikely. Anyone who has taken a psychoactive dose of nutmeg knows that it's effects aren't even remotely like those of most psychedelic amphetamines.

Many aromatics are known to have psychoactive effects though. I wouldn't really be surprized if an overdosage of safrole could give somebody hallucinations in the same way things like myristicin and elemecin, or parsley oil can.

Whatsamatau
25-06-2009, 00:04
safrol couldnt be any more toxic than mda...

God why do I even bother. I really don't give a flying fuck about whether you can get high off of sassafrass, but it just seems that this subject seems to bring out the chemically ingnorant. You do realize that the salt you sprinkle on your food is made from two elements, Clorine and Sodium that are deadly toxic to humans:! When they are reacted they become non-toxic. It's called chemistry. As Rietman Zeta's friend said "the plural of anecdote is not data"

Why is this advanced again?