Kratom Withdrawal

Thanks. It might not be the worst decision to get some full spectrum and ease off that way. You can take the stairs or jump out a window, one takes longer, but at least you can avoid the “splat”.

made a thread here

i am a heroin addict and have withdrew from it many times. i also worked at a place that sold a very powerful kratom extract that felt very much like a strong opiate like blues for example. withdrawaling from it feels about like the 4th day of the withdrawal process from iv. it still sucks ass. so don't make someone feel stupid for being sick when you don't know what you're talking about!

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I have been researching kratom for my grandfather who has shingles and they just prescribed him methadone a few days ago. Because of my past experiences (I am a recovering opiate addict), I was very concerned knowing what I know about methadone. Of all opiate drugs it has the most overdoses because of the long half-life and I have heard many times that the wd's are worse than H. Anyhow, I wanted to see what wd's he could experience taking it which brought me to this site. Reading everyone's concerns on getting sober and how to get through wd's I had to share my experience, so I made an account so hopefully I can help someone else.

I was addicted to H and was put on subs to get off of it. I took subs for many years until a career choice forced me to quit. I tried one x-mas holiday and ended up relapsing on norco's because my back pain (I have chronic back pain issues which contributed to my addiction in the first place) was so intense I couldn't even move. Sub wd's are a little less intense than H, but the wd's last FOREVER! I ended up having to get back on subs and try again one year later. Since kratom works in a similar way, I think my suggestions can help out. I started taking a mineral supplement (Beyond Tangy Tangerine or BTT) which contains all the vitamins and minerals that the body needs. I took double the usual daily dose which Dr. Wallach (the creator of BTT) recommends for drug wd's. I also ordered Withdrawal Ease off the internet which I think helped somewhat in addition to california poppy and skullcap extract. What I have discovered works extremely well is the Gerson Therapy which can be found on the internet. I didn't do it full force and I didn't do it at first in my detox which would have made a bigger difference I believe. I would actually suggest starting it a few days before you stop taking everything. It includes fresh organic juices drank every hour (you need a juicer to do this, but considering how much money you probably have been spending on your habit it shouldn't be too bad) and ORGANIC light to medium roast coffee enemas 2-6 times/day (max every 4 hours). There are several other supplements that Gerson suggests for the therapy, but I did not have the funds. In Charlotte Gerson's book she actually talks about using this therapy to detox people off of heavy opiate habits without the patients experiencing wd's AT ALL. I didn't do the full therapy, so I cannot attest to that, but it made a HUGE difference for me in addition to the mineral supplement. The second time I was able to get off the suboxone and stay off with much better physical wd's and extremely reduced mental wd's which most addicts would agree is the real kicker. I would say to stay away from meat, dairy, and wheat products. I tried eating meat while doing the detox (which Gerson DOES NOT recommend) and I could tell that it increased my inflammation and back pain. Now I would do a vegan detox with no processed foods/refined sugars, and mostly raw fruits and veggies (most of which are consumed in the tasty juices). Doing all this juicing and preparing coffee enemas can be time consuming and take a bit of energy. This can be good in a way to keep you busy, but if you are concerned you won't have enough energy I suggest preparing your supplies for the first few days ahead of time. Fresh juice should be consumed within 3 days and Gerson believes in making it fresh every hour, but do what you can. The carbs/sugar/nutrients in the juice will help to decrease cravings while coffee enemas are CRUCIAL for detoxing your body so you do not experience as many wd symptoms. It was amazing - as soon as I felt the ache in my back I would do the coffee enema (at first it was usually about 4 hours after the last one) and my pain would immediately go away. I cannot possibly explain the fullness of the therapy in this post, and you should check out there website to get more complete instructions/information. One thing I want to note though is that you must be taking a lot of juices, minerals, etc. to do the coffee enemas without side effects (if you are doing them every 4 hours especially) because it causes your body to use up a bunch of minerals to help you detox. Signs that you are not getting enough nutrition with coffee enemas include leg pain, knee pain, and lower back pain although the pain is much more bearable than wd pain.

Well, I didn't mean to make such a long post, but it is a complicated therapy that I found very useful. BTW I have no affliations with The Gerson Institute or Youngevity or the Withdrawal Ease people. Of the things I listed, the juicing, coffee enemas, and mineral supplement were the most helpful in my opinion. Btw Centrum and other cheap vitamins are not likely to work because they are made with inorganic compounds that your body doesn't recognize and doesn't absorb well. BTT includes the minerals in the form from fruits and veggies that the body recognizes and absorbs. I am just sharing what worked for me! Good luck to all and you can do it! One last point - I had to do AA to have long-term sobriety. I know a lot of addicts/alcoholics do not want to do it, but it really is an amazing program and really works if you put the work in. God bless

Hey guys, I know this is an old thread but I googled kratom withdrawal and decided to post. I used kratom awhile ago and went through a withdrawal that wasn't too bad, beause I wasn't using every day. The last 3 months I've been using every day, 15-20g. The last 2 days I haven't used any because I turned 21 and decided I didn't want to be numb on drugs or not feel like myself anymore. Also it caused a lot of manic binge eating for me.

Well I've had to go to work on the days I haven't used kratom, yesterday I had a panic attack at work with sweats, and cried in front of coworkers and customers. Tried to make it through but basically cried for the 2 hours I made it, tried not to show it. I was sent home and cried the rest of the night. I had very strong thoughts of suicide and a feeling of depression I don't think I've ever had. I have to make it through work today despite having no energy in my legs/feet and this weird nervy hormonal feeling of disgust that makes me want to vomit and comes with this self loathing, suicidal feeling, along with feeling cold/hot. I know that sounds intense, and I didn't think kratom withdrawal could be like this because I was just fine last time I went off of it last year, but this is horrible. Also I haven't been able to sleep, which makes sense seeing as on kratom I was sleeping 18-30 hours a night. Anyway, thought I'd contribute, guess I need support because today will be tough.

God, wish I could sleep 30 hrs a night. But seriously, insomnia is the biggest problem I've had with Kratom withdrawal. I'm now on day 14 from 15-30 g powdered leaf and it's just the restlessness and not knowing what to fill my time with now. I had one relapse during those 2 weeks-which was silly in retrospect- but oh! the relief. I agree with all those above who recognise the insidious nature of this plant,just coz it's a relatively weak opioid doesn't mean easy w/d's, believe me.

Hang in there man....it seems to me too that kratom withdrawals seem to just never end. And the depression boredom and restlessness make relapse so hard to avoid. As I've said on earlier posts constructive activities seems to make all the difference....just make yourself flood your life with activities that will aid in self improvement. Whether it's reading, writing, researching, finally filling out those forms you've put off for months. Anything that will occupy your mind and make you feel positively affirmed will make a big difference

Just finished reading this whole thread, and am currently 68 hours into the withdrawal process. Just thought I would share my story to add to the collective knowledge base.

Background: I have used opiates sporadically for the past seven years. Mostly pharmaceuticals, but I used high-grade powder H a few times as well. Never had any addiction issues until I tried smoked BTH, though. Something about the rapid administration had me hooked instantly; it was incomparably more psychologically addictive for me than even extended periods of insufflating other opiates, including stronger opiates like oxymorphone. After 16 days of VERY heavy use, I decided I needed to quit, and left the state to stay at a friend's place where I had no connections for the hard stuff. Cold turkey was a bitch to say the least. When I returned home, the acute phase of the withdrawal was over, but I had lingering PAWS and was kind of desperate for something to fill the emptiness that was I was left with after the cessation.

In early January, I tried Kratom three days in a row at a friend's place and was blown away. I never would have expected that a natural opioid could be this pleasant, and it completely eliminated my PAWS, something that codeine and gabaergics had failed to do. I decided to buy a bunch of high-grade plain leaf for myself, and began taking 7g doses every morning. I definitely liked it more than weak to moderate morphinan opioids like Codeine or Hydrocodone. The once-per-day habit quickly escalated to twice-per-day, and by the end of the month, my dosages had climbed from 7g to 9g. Once it got to the point that I was chugging over 20g of plain leaf per day, I got tired of the process, and switched to "enhanced" blends, which ranged from 1.5x to 2x the potency of the ultra-grade plain leaf.

My tolerance continued to build over the following two months, to the point that I was consuming about 20g of the enhanced blends daily, probably equivalent to about 35g of plain leaf per day. I finally decided that it was time to call it quits, didn't place a restock order, and took my last dose on Wednesday evening. By Thursday at Noon, I was definitely in a state of opioid withdrawal. All of the symptoms were there, and while they were definitely not as severe as cold-turkey on the BTH, it was certainly not pleasant. I had stocked up on things to counter the effects of the withdrawal, which generally worked well.

For muscle pain -- 330mg naproxen every 12 hours + 10mg Cyclobenzaprine every 8 hours (which had the added benefit that it helped me sleep). Together they were very effective, and when taken on schedule almost completely eliminated my muscle soreness.

For insomnia and anxiety -- 1mg Etizolam in the morning, 1mg mid-day, and 1mg right before I wanted to sleep. I had no trouble sleeping. This was only moderately effective at quelling the anxiety, however.

For GI discomfort -- 1000mg Ginger extract twice per day + 4mg Loperamide twice per day (this also had the effect of reducing the overall withdrawal because I am prescribed a medication that inhibits P-glycoprotein)

The first two days of withdrawal were pretty severe, despite the medications for symptomatic relief. Today was significantly better. I actually forgot that I was withdrawing for the first minute after I woke up haha. I stopped the etizolam today, but I plan to continue the other meds at least through tomorrow night. Hopefully by Monday, I will be completely though the acute phase of withdrawal. Hoping that this doesn't leave me with PAWS like the BTH withdrawal did, but I guess I will know for sure soon.

I've been "quitting kratom" for the past 2 months now. Most recently I had a 2 week clean streak, was feeling really pretty good (not great, but def good), then relapsed again for about a whole week. Took a half teaspoon of stem and vein this morning but it didn't seem to do much anyway because the physical withdrawals are back (I guess because I wasn't away long enough for my brain and body to completely readjust before relapsing for a whole week) and I'm just hoping the psychological symptoms of withdrawal like depression and anhedonia won't return as bad as they did last time. I took a gabapentin which seems to have just kicked in and helped tremendously, and I still have some Wellbutrin in case the depression/anhedonia kick in again after a few days. I've also been on/off Phenibut/Valium because of quitting and requitting Kratom, and feel I can't even take that at the moment. Today is day 4 away from both of those though so maybe it will be safe. Plus like I said I'm using gabapentin which seems to help.

The good news: aside from the stem and vein, which I made get rid of today, my brother and I flushed all the Kratom I had left that he had been hiding (yet let me have all last week for Memorial Day weekend through a whole vacation week). It was so hard to do, but when I did it I felt powerful, it felt liberating. Now I feel weak of course because of withdrawals, but I am determined to stay away from Kratom for at least 30 days, at which point I have a feeling I will no longer be craving it anyway. Like Father Stack originally said, I may indulge here or there, but after 30 days, if I even feel the slightest craving, I won't take it. I know it will only get easier. I'm sick and tired of being sick and tired from this shit.

I will again recommend that you don't allow yourself to take it again after 30 days "if you don't feel cravings". From my experience as an opiate addict (7 years of which were kratom), you are giving yourself an out by saying that. It may be possible to form a different relationship with kratom, but in all likelihood the pattern would be the same.

For me, it has never been possible to avoid spiraling down again if I even let myself use opiates a single time again when I'm clean. I've had 10 years to try, and now I am confident in saying I will never again ingest an opiate. I won't even do it if I'm injured in the hospital.

Did your ibogaine trip, or any other trip for that matter, give you the strength to do this? Or is this something you just developed on your own over time?

Withdrawal symptoms are definitely avoidable. The first time I quit (20 gm per day for 6 months), I didn't know what to expect, and it was awful. 5 nights without sleep and total fatigue and listlessness for another week after that. The easiest time I quit, which was after a 4 month daily kratom tea brewed from the same stuff, I had almost no symptoms -- I carefully tapered for about a week that time. I didn't take any medications or supplements either time.
But with kratom as in most things in life, I'm not a quitter. I find that life is slightly better and more enjoyable with kratom than without it. So now I usually take a few grams every day.

Yeah I feel the same way, though I'm not taking it right now... since this last whole back-and-forth Kratom withdrawal ordeal was directly connected to an oxy habit and I feel like that made my body and brain's dependency on it that much harder, so I'm abstaining for now... but I can see myself going back to it at some point in the future, but much lighter this time. My tolerance will be way down to normal again and starting from complete baseline w/o any other opiates being involved, I seem to have a ceiling tolerance with it, at which point any more Kratom regardless of any light-moderate tolerance attained and I would just feel sick from it. It was like this for almost 8 months, everything was fine and it was easy to take a break when I wanted... until the other opiates (oxy) got involved. Then all went to hell.

I absolutely cannot believe I let it happen again. 5 days in a row, felt terrible this morning until I had it. I'm so disgusted with myself. I have two more monster days at work that I absolutely cannot handle while in WDs, so I guess I am going to take light doses for two more days and then quit when I have two days off in a row next week. Don't get me wrong, I know that this is nothing and I'll get through it. It's just the same old self-disgust that I took the sleeping dragon for a walk and spent money that should have gone to proper bills.

RedLeader said:

I absolutely cannot believe I let it happen again. 5 days in a row, felt terrible this morning until I had it. I'm so disgusted with myself. I have two more monster days at work that I absolutely cannot handle while in WDs, so I guess I am going to take light doses for two more days and then quit when I have two days off in a row next week. Don't get me wrong, I know that this is nothing and I'll get through it. It's just the same old self-disgust that I took the sleeping dragon for a walk and spent money that should have gone to proper bills.

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big hugs brother, you will get through it Maya will help you out messaged sent on your inbox.

Red....don't beat yourself up. You know these sorts of relapses happen. You can totally do this.
That said, I'm in the same boat. I had quit for a while and now I'm back at it again. The worst part is, it helps my anxiety so much. That makes it so difficult to choose to stay away from it. I'm now off of everything BUT Kratom. My husband is one of those people who can do stuff for a time and then just walk away from it. I'm not that lucky. Especially knowing I have to stop Kratom soon and then will get my anxiety back full force. I'm sorta stressing it.

Hope after your low dose days you have an easy time without it! keep us posted!

For everyone in this thread: if anxiety is the root then anxiety is where you need to go. It seems impossible but I am really a believer that the only way out is through.

Sort of like going into a trip with the intention to observe and listen and learn. Go into your thought ;loop and all the while be an observer of yourself. How do the thoughts go? How does one lead to the next? Can you fuck with the chain and disrupt the normal progression? Freedom from anxiety is possible but you do have to stop running from it and sit down with it.

I should feel honoured that ocean replied to my post above. It's been ages, I miss our friendship! Sorry to hear that you're fighting this too.

Last dose was 21 hours ago. I feel lethargic, a bit sweaty, with a headache, and no appetite. I don't feel happy or with any enthusiasm. Sex drive is still gone. Have a few more hours at work to go, and then I'll be off for 40 hours. So I'll ride out the worst of it in a comfortable settling. If it doesn't get much worse than this, then I don't really see my life being interrupted at all. It's only noticeable if I sit down and think about it. But it's just enough to give me flashbacks of heroin withdrawals, and I do not like thinking about that stuff.

But ya, let's just call this a week of poor decisions without any practical consequences. I'll walk away from it without being fired, spending all of my money or hurting anyone. I can live with that!

Kratom withdrawal fucking sucks man, I was on kratom for 7 years, a very large amount daily, the withdrawals were worse in many eays than any other opiate withdrawal I have felt (heroin, oxy and poppy tea are the ones I've felt). You can do it man. It's temporary shittiness with an end result of feeling better than you ever did on it.