your rights at work

I'm sure you're all aware of the IR law reform a year ago and their effect on employees.
Please sign up at www.rightsatwork.com.au to join the campagn to get your right at work back.

No thanks, Dude its the 21st century- No need in supporting union bludgers.

^Ha.

The whittling away of rights at my workplace is beginning, i will certainly be signing up.

downunder83 said:

No thanks, Dude its the 21st century- No need in supporting union bludgers.

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What the fuck does that even mean?? Do you have any idea of what you are talking about? Back that statement up, if you do.... i'd like to hear what you have to say. So would the thousands of people now being shafted. I'm sure they love being called union bludgers.

I'm pretty lucky in that i work for a very large fed. govt. organisation, and even here we're feeling some effects of these new IR laws, but i know a heap of people who have been affected by losing overtime, penalties, being given formal warnings after being late 5 minutes to work... While i understand that previous to this, the employer really didn't have alot of rights, in that, if he/she did have bludgers on the payroll, there wasn't alot of back-up, but hell, these new IR laws are pretty shitty and extreme.

I think the unfortunate thing is that we've gone from one extreme to the other. The previous system didn't work (check with any small to medium sized business how ridiculously hard employing people was - I know someone who couldn't sell his business, had 10 staff, and ended up declaring bankruptcy because he couldn't afford to shut the business down to retire).

Now we've gone in the opposite direction, and people are getting shafted.

Thats politics eh...

Yeah there's gotta be an adequade medium.

samadhi said:

So would the thousands of people now being shafted.

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Show me these 'thousands' of people being shafted and I might consider signing it.

Over the last year there's been a handful (at best) of reports in the media...surely with such a hot topic if there were really that many people adversely effected it'd be front page news every day.

Maybe the sky really hasn't fallen in.

I'd rather a system that supports job creation rather than one where employers would rather not hire.... sorry but the union scare tactics don't affect smart people.

^You two probably fucking voted for Howard.

Lemme guess, you probably voted union (I mean Labor)?? Wow. How'd I guess that.

Again, show me all these people who have been screwed over and I'll stand corrected and reconsider my position. But so far, after a year of these new laws all the unions have been able to say is that these new laws will destroy the nation. So how come the economy is going so well that we're going to have a rate rise next week and probably another one later in the year?

Where are these thousands of adversely effected workers?

^^

Where are these thousands of adversely effected workers?

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I'll need more than a logo to convince me to change my mind, especially given lines are probably shorter now that employers feel safer in taking the risk to hire someone. But I'll give you points for humour at least.

Bent Mk2 said:

...lines are probably shorter now that employers feel safer in taking the risk to hire someone.

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^Are all of your arguments so well researched? 8(

I personally know three people adversely affected by the IR laws. My colleagues, friends and family know at least that amount each.

If you mean researched beyond my family and friends, then yes.

But to use your personal research, I can say the electrician my previous company used has hired 3 new apprentices. The first time he's hired an apprentice in 10 years since his mate's son screwed him over.

Closer to home, my brother recently got a job, with no experience, because the boss was happy to take the punt that if he didn't work out there was no risk. My brother has to work hard (and when he does he'll get rewarded).

We can all give limited examples to each side, a few workers here, a few workers there. But I didn't try and fill them MCG on scare tactics. Where are the thousands of people splashed across the front page of the Age? Where are the hundreds of families torn apart?

It hasn't happened. There was supposed to be a massive rush by employers to take full use of the new laws. There was no rush to fire and rehire for less.

It hasn't happened. If it has, I'll ask again. Prove it on the scale everyone keeps saying it will happen in and I'll eat my hat. No whitty comebacks, no logos, no "wow you voted for Howard" insightful comments...just proof. Its not too much to ask for is it?

CHiLD-0F-THE-BEAT said:

I personally know three people adversely affected by the IR laws. My colleagues, friends and family know at least that amount each.

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^What more do you want?

A few more than three (even if its written in pink) might be a start. There are 20,700,000+ people in Australia. (EDIT - 10,327,900 of those people were employed in January 2007. No wonder 3 people didn't make the front page of the Age).

Bent Mk2 said:

I can say the electrician my previous company used has hired 3 new apprentices.

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Does this mean that you personally work for a company or you own a company. I can't understand how a basic worker can have such stong views agains unions. I understand for bosses and business owners how unions could be a pain but for a general worker?

Firstly, unions are there to protect YOU, the worker. To prevent everyday people getting screwed over by the fat cats.

Secondly, Union pay is usually ALOT more than just general wages. If every worker was protected by a union the general public would be alot better off and the gap between the rich and the poor would be more reasonable. You dont have anything against earning more money do you?

I lived off traineeship wages for 12 months, eg $9 per hour while my boss drove a brand new Landcruiser and his wife a BMW. He owned dozens of properties. After a few years and a few raises I was told that I was personally worth five times my income in profit to the business. That is fucking disgraceful. IN PROFIT.

Some people just don't have the skills to negotiate with thier employers and need some sort of representation. We do live in a society.

I guess what it comes down to is whether the individual places the rights of the worker over the rights of the employer and vice versa. Undeniably, the IR reforms have resulted in greater flexibility in the job market ( typically something that will benefit the employer). This, however, obviously comes at the expense of worker's job security.

Sure sure, greater flexibility may theoretically stimulate the economy. However, when we talk about 'the economy', we are specifically talking about one based in the free market. This is not necessarily a good thing, IMO. Especially when you measure the economic 'growth' that free market economics does create against the social impact it has on people unable to access the market.

Whether or not we all want to be at the fate of something as contingent as economic forces is really a matter of ideology/opinion. I don't really think it can be solved with something as flimsy as statistics and examples.

(EDIT - to answer Klue's question...)

I worked for a company, and I now work for another company. I decided a while back I'd had enough of my career. So I worked at swapping and eventually found someone who was willing to take a punt.

I went in as a junior. I knew I was throwing away good money, and it would be years before I saw good money again (assuming I made it!). So when it came to negotiations for my new job I aimed high. Turns out not high enough. This new employer values good employees. Like most smart employers. He countered my offer and said he could do better.

Do you think your boss always drove a new car? He went straight from school to owning dozens of properties? Or did he have to work for it? Did he do his time on $9 an hour? Put his money, his family on the line? Risk bankruptcy, a downturn in the economy? I'm guessing before you clock on he's working, and when you clock off he's working. I know my boss is, and I work long hours.

That guy giving you your job has a hell of a lot more riding on your job that you do (you said it yourself, 5 times the profit). Hate to shock you, but we all work for profit, sadly not always ourselves.

On any given day in my last job I could save my boss $5K because I was good at what I did. Do you reckon I was getting $5k a day? Don't think so.

Unions HAD their place. A lot of what all workers enjoy now was won by unions back in the day, but the world has changed, and sadly for many unions so has their relevance. And I'll also say the stereotypical building unions don't do the pro-union movement much service. I've seen first hand how the fuck over non-union businesses, I've personally seen non-union tradies threatened. I've personally seen sites shut down because there was less than 3/4 coffee in the jar (and just to clarify, I saw all this because I worked directly next to a building site for a while and we shared common space, and I got to know a lot of the guys, including the union site reps quite well.

The day everyone was supposed to go to the MCG? It happened to tie in perfectly with a RDO, long weekend and 'family picnic day', no wonder no one showed up, they weren't even interested when a 5 day weekend was available.

Klue said:

^You two probably fucking voted for Howard.

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Im not on the electoral roll, i dont have to vote But i'd prefer someone who wasn't controlled by union bludgers... Man you guys are being conned so hardcore with this scare tactics- i dont know anyone that has been negatively affected by the new laws.... its all about keeping the unions in conrtol thats it.... lets just hope union membership continues to fall!

Come on this is bluelight we are supposed to be open minded... how about you study the pros and cons of the new system instead of reading union pamphlets.. its really quite easy to see how much better the new system is. Look at both sides of the argument before you fall victim to propaganda. I am non political and don't vote i look at things from both sides.