Vegetarianism vs meat eating

I know there have been a few discussions on here already about this never ending feud but i'd just like to get a few different opinions on this issue relating to modern meat production.

I eat animal products, mostly fish and eggs, occasionally chicken and turkey and red meat when i feel like a good steak. If i have dairy it's fetta cheese or plain yogurt, but no more than once a week if that. Basically i'll eat any animal product if it's either organic or bio-dynamic.

I have tried being vegetarian for over a year and had no problems abstaining from animal products. I went back to eating fish and the occasional meat simply because i like food and cooking and the nutritional benefits that i believe animal protein gives us.

For a long time i have queried the scientific clinical studies pertaining to increased meat consumption equalling greater risks of CVD and cancer and how vegetarian diets result in reduced incidence of heart attacks, stroke, BP, cholesterol ect.

In my personal opinion there is absolutely no doubt that an increased consumption of vegetables, fruit and wholegrains leads to better overall health, i think we can all agree on that. The thing that gets me though is when it is proven in clinical trials the link between meat eating causing disease.

I do believe that overconsumption of meat can definately cause problems but i dont feel that small amounts of meat consumption in itself is a huge health concern. My main concern and what i believe scientific trials lack is the differentiation of non-organic animal product production compared to organic/bio-dynamic practices.

I feel that ANY consumption of animal products (meat, dairy, eggs, fish) which has been mass-produced using hormones, antibiotics, chemically spayed feeding lots etc will ALWAYS contribute to disease and is the real cause for the link between meat-eating and related diseases. Maybe i'm not searching hard enough but i'm yet to see a trial that was done on the relationship between organic meat and disease in humans (although in reality it would be hard to gather a sample size) and if anyone has seen one please provide me with a link.

Processed meats are probably one of the worst sources of carcinogens with the nitrates that are routinally added. Then there is battery hens, animals not aloud to roam free, milk that is homogenised and pasteurised. Not to mention the hormone and antibiotic traces that have been found in animal products, and yes while they may be minute, if ingested routinely they can still potentially accumulate in the body which i would more accurately associate with disease then eating the meat alone.

Some of you may disagree with my choice of words and and that is ok, i'd like to know your opinions and reasons why.


Do you think that if we were all consuming organic animal products that we would still see this relationship between meat eating = Cancer and CVD, assuming the remaining part of the diet was filled with non processed, fresh wholegrains, legumes, vegetables and fruit on par with a vegetarian?

Just don't eat the meat in the first place. Then you do not have to worry about any of that.

pyrrhicvictory

There really is no need for it.

I mean, I'm sure you could entertain the idea of a utopia where no pesticides exist, where everything is raised independently and organically, with sustainable land, etc.. and maybe then animal products could fit in your diet very occasionally without ill effect.

But right now, it's realistic to take the attitude of defense in your diet, by sticking to vegetarianism to decrease risk factors.

what about eating seafood? Does it have the same amount of contamination as red meat? I know that fish from certain streams and lakes are poisoned, and clams and oysters during events like Red Tide, but overall if you watch your sources, isn't seafood safer?

In some ways it may, in some ways it may not. Unfortunately I'm not wise on that sort of thing.

But I will say that anything in the ocean you will be eating second hand. I remember they tested fish for common drugs, and found a lot, such as prozac and viagra.

socko said:

what about eating seafood? Does it have the same amount of contamination as red meat? I know that fish from certain streams and lakes are poisoned, and clams and oysters during events like Red Tide, but overall if you watch your sources, isn't seafood safer?

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Regarding mercury toxicity it is generally recommended to stay away from the larger, predator fish such as shark, swordfish, king mackeral and i few others which i cant remember now. This is because these big fish eat the little fish therefore they get alot more contamination.

I think oysters have high contamination aswell.

The human body was never meant to live exclusively on vegetables. Sure, you may be avoiding a few hormones, but there's just as much rubbish in vegetables, unless you're going to grow them yourself in the compost of vegetation you've grown yourself in the compost of....

There's no escaping the shite we've pumped into our atmosphere completely. You can avoid the worst of it by avoiding heavily-processed foods, but you're never going to avoid it totally, vegetarian or not. Frankly I think you get more of what your body needs from eating a full range of meat, fruit, vegetables, fats etc. than restricting yourself to particular food groups. Man has been eating animals since the dawn of time. Fair play, avoid the battery-farmed chickens and processed rubbish, but avoiding meat for some wussy love of bunnies isn't really helping yourself or anyone/anything else.

^^^^

Agreed, I will keep my whole food sources, and meats. And I will keep my strong muscles, good color, and great health.

If you are going to make the step to totally cut out meats, you need to research protein and amino acid sources. You need to know how to nourish yourself.

^^^Word. I also agree with unfortunate Squid. (yummy name ) Especially on knowing how to nourish YOURSELF best. We are all different, like I always say. I respect everybody and their choices for themselves.

I'm a passionate omnivore...i love my vegetables just as much as I love my meat and seafood, although I can go for periods of time without one or the other and still be okay too. Healthy meat and seafood choices along with lots of yummy vegetables is the way to live for me, not an either/or existence. One thing I have observed tho is that people are always wanting to go all out, its either all or nothing (either you be a true vegan and be truly healthy OR just be a steak & potato loving fattie 8( and be super unhealthy)......how many people here are like myself who agree that there is also a middle ground where we can enjoy both and be healthy as well?

crystalcallas said:

how many people here are like myself who agree that there is also a middle ground where we can enjoy both and be healthy as well?

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That's what i'm talking about. I dont subscribe to being a vegetarian, nor do i overdo it on animal products. It's all about balance. Too much or too little of anything cannot be good for us. The more variety we have in our diets the better.

UnfortunateSquid said:

There's no escaping the shite we've pumped into our atmosphere completely

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Unfortunately this is true, even organic produce will have very trace amounts of chemicals from the air, rain etc. But we can minimise the amount of crap we put into our bodies and give it the highest quality fuel to encourage and support the detoxification processes which aid elimination of excessive toxins.

But anyways, this wasnt meant to be a discussion on the pro's and cons of meat eating or eating organic. I wanted to know whether people thought that the negative connotations meat eating has gotten in recent years is due more to the fact that these clinical trials used meat that had chemical, hormonal and/or antibiotic residues in it, rather than actual meat consumption in itself?

bah scientific research is complete bullshit. i haven't read a single study regarding nutrition that doesn't either completely contradict an article written less than two years prior or isn't doomed to be contradicted. the reality is that scientists honestly don't know shit (yeah, they really think they do, which is why most of my high-school science teachers were hated by everyone else on the staff lolz). they take an extremely controlled example and then someone comes along and spins a whole article on the effect that red meat has on the heart not taking into any consideration the fact that all the food we eat actually affects the rest of our bodies too. bottom line is: meat = good. if you disagree then you're actually deluded and suffering from the further delusion that you're not actually deluded. but there's really no logical reason for any sane person to decide that they're just not going to consume one of the essential food groups. i've known vegans and they've all been pretty fucking cracked. but then again, they don't show much concern for their future in any category other than nutrition so there's naught left to do but pity them. I guess you could call that a generalization, but the 10-15 vegans I knew all came from the same mold... not a whole lot of unique comin out of them except for the tweaked ideas that they'd ocassionally get from smoking all the freakin weed they do. and i know what having tweaked out thoughts is like, but these guys were just beyond the realm of tangible sanity.

if you love prawns, you might find it a shame that they are not that good for you. the reason is that they tend to live near the coast and very low down at the bottom of the sea... this is where most of the pollutants settle and thus the prawns ("the filters of the sea" as a nutritionist once put it) are full of undesirable crap.

UnfortunateSquid said:

Man has been eating animals since the dawn of time.

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what about women? 8(

i'm sorry but this shit just frustrates me...get with the 21st century. sexist language = not cool

//end rant

^Oh my god,he was merely making a point. I suppose you'd like to change 'mankind' to 'personkind' too?lol:D

Go Vegan!!

BTW woMAN includes the word man. Thus when refering to mankind or man in the generic way, (like the way the poster did) it could mean woman and man.

Get into reality.

Personally, I hate all phrases that discriminate. These include "man kind", human, woman, manitee, mandurin oranges, manufacture etc. What about the ladytees and ladydurin oranges!? Ladyfacturing? I guess the last one might be sexist either way.

YOur not allowed to say "waiter" or "waitress" any more either. That's discriminatory. YOu have to say "waitron."

scientific research is complete bullshit.

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Just because one does not understand what they are reading... does not mean science is bullshit. If you don't get it, you might think about going to school.

shutterbug said:

what about women? 8(

i'm sorry but this shit just frustrates me...get with the 21st century. sexist language = not cool

//end rant

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Sexist language? Oh man...