tackling the big issues.... equality at work...

no.. not money... (we've done that one before..)

this is about things such as hair.. jewelery or even maternity leave....

are men at a disadvantage in todays society?

as an example, my work look down upon guys who die their hair...

earrings are NOT allowed....

i even copped greif for wearing a thumb ring...


yet, the ladies at our work can die their hair, can have multiple peircings and can wear all the jewelery they want....

and then there is the case of maternity vs paternity leave... a lot of companies still see raising a child as the mothers role, and will not hold a role for men if they choose to take a year off...

so.. is this really equal??? should it be that whatever women can do men can do??

Todays workplaces are deffinatly more "Old fashioned". Where females CAN wear jewellery, dye thier hair etc.

However a few places I've been to I've had my ass kicked because I wear alot of Jewellery, I do dye/tip my hair, and used to have 4 earrings.

I'm not sexist in the slightest, so why not make everything even throughout. That way you'll clearly not have in-arguements with employees. My current place is awesome though, wear what you want, how you want.

In regards to hair and jewellery - I guess I can kind of see an employer's point if he is more restrictive with male standards - ONLY in the case though, where it might directly affect their business, relationships with clients etc.

Ie. it is just a fact of our still extremely unequal society (which is where this work attitude stems from) that men with lots of piercings/jewellery, dyed hair, are regarded by people with extremely outdated standards as less trustworthy/professional/masculine, <insert derogatory term here>. This means that people who hold these old-fashioned stereotypes dear to their hearts might be unwilling to do business with, buy from, or generally respect men who do flaunt said stereotypes.

In this case, though it is of course annoying as it perpetuates this myth, I can see the employers point in regulating male employee standards more, because obviously, at the end of the day, they're not going to make some equal opportunities stance and sacrifice their business.

In the case of maternity/paternity leave....I'm in two minds. On one hand - there is the simple fact that females NEED maternity leave ---- men do not fall physically pregnant and they are not needed to breastfeed etc. On the other hand, I do feel that during the mother of their child's late stages of pregnancy, and if they choose to after the birth (ie. are involved in taking care of the child) that they should be allowed paternity leave. I'm not sure if the cases are "across the board" enough to warrant specific and standardised regulations on this though. Kind of seems like it still needs to be judged on an ad-hoc basis for the most part?

I thought i was coming in here to talk about the quality of E's we take at work

I had huge trouble with my employer over my eyebrow piercing. I pointed it out time and time again that nowhere in the policydid it state I wasn't allowed to have one. They tried to use the excuse that it's unsafe, wtf?

I finally won the argument my pointing at a female co-ordinator who wore probably about 10 rings on on hand plus a multitude of bracelets. I argued that if she could wear all that and still be considered "safe" then I'm sure my eyebrow ring wont be a hassle.

I win.

maybe when i'm not so drunk i'll come back and actually read this thread, but yeah, i think men are definately worse off when it comes to jewellery and even dress standards at work.

this topic was discussed in SO just a little while back for anyone who's interested in reading... link

There's also the "dress code". For instance, when I'm at work mon - thurs I have to wear a suit, but the females in the office have like a casual dress, which is somewhere inbtwn Causal and Smart Casual?

Which at times really pisses me off, cause there is more office approapriate things to wear.

I think the best way to answer this question is to look at in the following way.

What image are you trying to portray by wearing what you are wearing?
Is the company trying to project a similar image?
Obviously your boss wants to look like he did a good job hiring his staff, and that his bosses who dont actually see what you do for a living at least think that you are a respectable staff member.

In a professional services firm or any company where you deal with clients on an ongoing basis, you want to show professionalism and look as if you care about what you do. The more garbage that you wear on your face, hands or sleazy 80's pony tails you have are just going to detract from what you are saying or the point you are putting across because attention spands are short and most people dont take everything in at once because they are easily distracted.

I mean seriously when a guy dies his hair, he more often than not fucks it up and looks like a deadshit or if he pays the extra money and goes to Joh Bailey or something he generally ends up looking like trailer trash, ie nobody can take the guy with the mullet (Mullay) seriously, especially cause he is constantly defending it and sounds like a little bitch. I suppose also since your boss is constantly dealing with you and he sees the same major bad idea you had he might start to question your intelligence. So perhaps your boss is doing you a favour by getting on your case about it.

Does your company want you to be individual and comfortable?
No, thats why people wear ties and suits, so you remember your place. The more comfortable you are the more you lounge around and get fuck all done. the fullier your mullay the more visual your day dreams are when you are stroking it repeatedly


Arent men compensated (ie taken seriously) enough for women to have maternity leave.
Most of the time women dont come back from their maternity leave, when they leave you get the opportunity to fill in for them and most undoubtly show that you can do the job better than a lactating fat woman. Would you really use paternity leave? or is it just an excuse to get on the cans. Thats the only thing id be doing on paternity leave. Its because of the wonders of materinity leave why there is also this glass ceiling you speak of, why promote a woman and shower her in manly knowledge from every boardroom pound into her future prospects when she is most certainly going to just end up on her back?

this is also the reason why they shouldnt have spent all that money at university cause now they have kids all they are going to be doing is eating, watching Oprah, interferring in your life with tid bits from doctor phil and letting their cultured voices deteriorate to somewhere between Wetheril Park and Liverpool?

So in conclusion, dont express yourself at work, employers dont care about who you are and what you stand for as long as you do your job and dont look like a moron, keep the customers believing your company is the best so that your employers seniors dont question their management skills.

Der

I guess it's one of the advantages with working in Federal Government (some areas at least); i work with guys who have pierced noses, lips, ears, one guy has a mohawk and a tattoo on his neck.

I don't think it's the same in all business lines of my organisation (especially with business lines that have to deal directly with the public), but the standards are put in place for men and women. No facial jewelry, no tattoos in sight, etc.

I work for an consulting company, so our business is schmoozing with clients, however if someone turns up to work in a suit they get at least 10 people asking them if they have a job interview.

People only tend to get into the black pants when they have big meetings, because, unfortuneately, this is stilll the way to impress your professionalism on other business people.

For the most part though, most people here wear "smart casual" which is pretty much jeans and a shirt... although jeans are meant to be kept for casual Fridays, people tend to just wear their baggier jeans on Fridays.

As for maternity/paternity leave, there is a lady on maternity leave now with now specific end date and also a guy on paternity leave, which they like to call "working from home". A few of the guys here are single-parents, and they frequently leave early or take days off during holidays or when their kids are sick.

I think in the end though, it comes down to our directors being casual people, they drink and smoke and swear at work and throw things around and make general children of themselves and it makes for a very relaxed atmosphere. I find that being relaxed at work means i work better, because i enjoy being here and i'm comfortable. I turned down a much higher paid job because i was told i'd be expected to wear suits and stockings.... no thank you!

I really think it's time for the business world to move with the times.... i'm impressed by people's knowledge, not what they wear.

My understanding is that in most industries, men are entitled to 12 months of unpaid paternity leave as long as the mother of the child isn't also taking 12 months of unpaid maternity leave. I know I looked into it when our second daughter was born and I was thinking of going back to work, and I'm fairly sure that's the case in most states in Australia. I think both parents should be allowed to take 2 weeks of unpaid leave regardless.

To an extent, I am interested in what someone is wearing when I deal with them. I absolutely don't have a problem with earrings on men, but I do tend to think they look less professional. Likewise with enormous, flashy earrings on women.

Very obviously dyed hair is a professional turn off for both sexes.

Blah, crazy household. I will return.

I'm sick and tired of this equality bullshit.

Men and women are not equal.

We never are, and never will be. There are basic physical and psychological differences that ensure some degree of difference.

The issue at hand isn't whether or not you should be allowed to wear/die/etc, it is simply whether or not it looks acceptable. Girl in suit wearing earrings = acceptable. Guy in suit wearing earrings = unnacceptable.

If I meet someone with work, and they're dressed well (casual, suit or otherwise), they instantly gain a degree of respect. However, if someone rocks up at a meeting dressed poorly, or with piercings, or visible tattoos, bad hair, etc, then they've instantly dropped a notch. Or five.

Fact is, if you deem wearing your facial jewellry to be so important you have to go to work with it, and its not necessarily kosher in that environment, you've clearly got your priorities wrong, and need to take your job a little more seriously. I'd love to not shave, not get haircuts, and no one would say anything if I stopped wearing suits, but I'd still look like a dickhead.

chandler said:

I'm sick and tired of this equality bullshit.

Men and women are not equal.

We never are, and never will be. There are basic physical and psychological differences that ensure some degree of difference.

The issue at hand isn't whether or not you should be allowed to wear/die/etc, it is simply whether or not it looks acceptable. Girl in suit wearing earrings = acceptable. Guy in suit wearing earrings = unnacceptable.

If I meet someone with work, and they're dressed well (casual, suit or otherwise), they instantly gain a degree of respect. However, if someone rocks up at a meeting dressed poorly, or with piercings, or visible tattoos, bad hair, etc, then they've instantly dropped a notch. Or five.

Fact is, if you deem wearing your facial jewellry to be so important you have to go to work with it, and its not necessarily kosher in that environment, you've clearly got your priorities wrong, and need to take your job a little more seriously. I'd love to not shave, not get haircuts, and no one would say anything if I stopped wearing suits, but I'd still look like a dickhead.

Click to expand...

Can you then answer me WHY it is deemed unacceptable for a male to have facial piercings?

Personally, i see no reason why a visible tattoo or a nosering would make someone a dickhead, but hey, you're telling the story. 8)

There is also the inequality faced by adoptive parents. The organisation that i work for is currently in talks with our union for the rights of adoptive parents to take the same amount of leave as biological parents. I think it's ridiculous that adoptive parents should have to dip into their annual or long service leave to bond with their child.

I dont think it is acceptable for men or woman to have facial piercings. Less should be more. I totally agree with Chandler.

Isnt Maternity leave for straight after the birth of the child? if you adopt at that stage I can understand it.

Yes it is, but to me, it shouldn't make a difference. Perhaps it's not as relevant if you're adopting a child who is 4 or 3, but take into consideration the upheaval that the adopted child has gone through. They should at LEAST get parental leave.

RE: piercings, etc. I don't think you'll find people with alot of piercings or visible tattoos working for companies that place such strict regulations on how they dress, do their hair, etc.

Regarding the point about my workplace in my post above, the people with piercings, tattoos and crazy hair do just as good a job, if not better, thatn the conservative public servants that have been there for years and look down upon them as some sort of feral, no hoper. To me, how someone dresses is in no way indicative of their perfomance, but unfortunately there are organisations (and people posting in this thread) that seem to think so. One persons idea of professional is anothers idea of stifled and conservative...

I'd still like someone to enlighten me as to why it is acceptable for a female to wear facial jewelry but not a male? I'm not talking about an amount of metal that would set of a detector at the airport, i'm talking about a nose piercing, or 1 or 2 earrings?

Personally, male or female, if you chose to work in an environment that requires you don't wear excessive jewelry or have any tattoos showing (lord knows why anyone would choose to, but that's just me ) then i guess you should be prepared to not wear aforementioned jewelry.

Having said that...i think it is completely unfair for an employer to set certain standards for females and different standards for males, when it comes to what one can wear, etc.

what kind of a world do we live in when people still make assumptions of skill and professionalism based on what colour someone's hair is or how many earrings they wear?

I'd have thought that in a drug-forum at least, people would be more open-minded than the today-tonight watching liberal voting wankers of this world.

people disgust me.