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Ketamine to go S8

streetsurfer

streetsurfer

Ex-Bluelighter
Joined
Feb 18, 2004
Messages
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A chemist associate of mine mentioned to me the other day that there are moves afoot to change ketamines poision scedule to S8, the same as morphine and dexamphetamines. I am devastated, does this mean it will be considerably harder to get? Far more expensive?
I' not sure if this post is within guidelines, I guess I will find out :)
 
Considering all Ketamine is sourced via diverting (e.g. stealing) legal sources, I'd say the new classification would probably mean conditions of storage and transport will be more stringent, and licenses to obtain may be slightly harder to get. But it is commonly used in by vets, so unless a replacement is available, I'd say illicit supply probably won't be all that disrupted. But it may mean more safes are stolen :\

However if you're caught with it, rescheduling may mean you could face a more serious charge.
 
Changes to ketamine market?

By Paul Dillon
Sydney Star Observer
Issue 759
Published 4/07/2005



Prior to last year ketamine was a scheduled drug under the Poisons and Therapeutic Goods Act which meant that there were strict regulations on the sale and distribution of the substance but possession was not illegal.

Legal changes made by the NSW Government put an end to that.

This week sees another major change around ketamine and the law.

Based on information which suggest that there is an increasing illicit use of ketamine which has been diverted from licit sources (i.e. veterinary suppliers and hospitals), and evidence of physical and psychological symptoms of ketamine dependence among some users, the National Drugs and Poisons Scheduling Committee has recommended the transfer of ketamine from Schedule 4 to Schedule 8 of the Standard Uniform Scheduling of Drugs and Poisons with effect from 1 May 2005.

Consequently, ketamine will become a Schedule 8 drug in the NSW Poisons List as of the same date.

What does Schedule 8 actually mean and what impact will this have on ketamine users?

Schedule 8 substances are those which are classified as drugs of addiction and as a result, the possession, supply, prescribing and use are strictly limited.

The re-scheduling of these drugs ensures far greater control by subjecting their use or supply to ‘special authority’.

According to NSW Health documents, these drugs ‘must be kept apart from all other goods in a safe, cupboard or drawer in a cabinet which is … kept locked when the drugs are not in immediate use’. A record must also be made of all Schedule 8 drugs used, supplied or administered.

This is a much more rigid system than for that of Schedule 4, ketamine’s previous scheduling, and it will be interesting to see what affect it has on the market.

In the US when they changed ketamine legislation there was a dramatic effect on the illicit drug market, with Special K becoming extremely difficult to find almost overnight.

The tighter restriction appeared to directly affect the availability of the drug.

At the moment, those who have a ready access to ketamine, such as doctors, nurses and vets, are able to divert the drug with comparative ease as there are often no records kept of where ketamine actually goes.

When the drug moves to the higher schedule, more records are kept and as a result, people may be more reluctant to take the risk of diverting supplies.

Ketamine is an illegal drug and there are real consequences if you get caught with the substance.

It will be interesting to see if new changes make significant impacts upon the current illicit drug market.

If the US experience is anything to go by, we will, and as a result we will most probably see the price of the drug rise and availability reduce.

The interesting thing to watch for will be if users switch to other drugs if, or when, the ketamine supply dries up.

Remember: If you do not want any negative consequences, do not use the drug and no matter how many times you have used a substance – never be blasé.
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Prior to last year ketamine was a scheduled drug under the Poisons and Therapeutic Goods Act which meant that there were strict regulations on the sale and distribution of the substance but possession was not illegal.
Click to expand...

Just a quick correction to Paul Dillon's statement about possession not being illegal;

Prior to the reclassification, Ketamine was classified under Schedule 4 (Restricted Substance), and was listed as an Appendix D substance (since at least April 2002). S4 Appendix D restricted substances are illegal to possess without authority. Possession of Ketamine without authority was illegal prior to the reclassification to Schedule 8 (Drugs of Addiction), and it will remain illegal after the reclassification.

The authority (to possess K and other S4 and S8 drugs legally) is most commonly issued in the form of a prescription written by a medical practitioner, dentist, veterinary surgeon or authorised nurse practitioner.

Apart from such written authority, the only people authorised to possess these substances are the prescribers listed above, pharmacists, licensed wholesalers, and a few more, including masters of ships (where they are required by law to carry certain drugs on their ship) and certain analysts/scientific researchers.


Other Appendix D listed substances are mainly benzodiazepines, hormones, and anabolic steroids.
 
just to clarify, this is only happening in NSW? and does anyone know if other states are making plans to go down the same path?
 
National Drugs and Poisons Scheduling Committee has recommended the transfer of ketamine from Schedule 4 to Schedule 8 of the Standard Uniform Scheduling of Drugs and Poisons with effect from 1 May 2005
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This is an Australia wide standard. The poisons legislation in each state adopts the same schedules as the SUSDP and then may add other drugs.

E.g in WA, schedule 8 poisons are defined as:

All substances listed in Schedule 8 to the SUSDP, subject to the following modification.
The following substance is added to Schedule 8 to the SUSDP -
11-NOR-9-CARBOXY TETRAHYDROCANNABINOL when used for analytical chemical analysis
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So anything added to schedule 8 in the SUSDP will automatically become schedule 8 under WA Poisons legislation. As stated, other states are similar.

Generally schedule 8 and schedule 9 chemicals are those to which each state's "drugs" legislation will apply to and for which sanctions and penalties are severe.

In WA the Misuse of Drugs Act applies to schedule 8 and 9 chemicals and also to "specified drugs". Ketamine is a specified drug and thus the Misuse of Drugs Act applies and possession is illegal. Thus, the WA position is exactly the same as what charles bronson has stated for NSW. Our specified "drugs" are steroids, benzos, barbiturates and class one precursors such as P2P, acetic anhydride and pseudoephedrine/ephedrine.

There was an article in the West Australian today that discussed the prescribing of ketamine to a female artist by a doctor for severe pain caused by damaged nerves (or something) from a traffic accident. She painted his portrait and entered it into the Archibald prize. Was interesting that ketamine was administered intravenously and was clearly held to be a legitimate treatment when other more common avenues had failed. Oh, and the phrase "horse tranquiliser" was no where to be seen.
 
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I think we can say goodbye to our ketamine fun unless they start trafficking it from O/S.
Scedule 8 means that every single dose is accounted for and two people are present whenever it is dispensed. Ever see morphine on the street? No, cos it is S8. Makes me so fucking mad, they have no grounds at all for making the change as far as people suffering overdoses etc.

Fuck the system
 
thanks for that Biscuit.

i wonder if Ketamine has a big enough market to prompt organised crime to try import it from other countries such as mexico, which i believe its pretty easy to obtain.
 
streetsurfer said:
I think we can say goodbye to our ketamine fun unless they start trafficking it from O/S.
Scedule 8 means that every single dose is accounted for and two people are present whenever it is dispensed. Ever see morphine on the street? No, cos it is S8. Makes me so fucking mad, they have no grounds at all for making the change as far as people suffering overdoses etc.

Fuck the system
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Not sure if that would be the case. Firstly there's a lot greater demand for ketamine than morphine, it's a pretty popular party drug in most Australian capitals.

Also, this rescheduling is only specific to NSW no? There are vets in other states of Australia.

Hopefully... :)
 
Mmm I'm getting a puppy in a couple of weeks, wonder if I can find a sympathetic vet??
 
phase_dancer said:
But it may mean more safes are stolen
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Agreed. As it stands, Ketamine must be kept in a locked cabinet up to a certain amount then locked in a safe.


This just means that it will all be in a safe and people who knock over vets will just have to take the safe too, or wait until people are inside and force them to hand it over.

We may even see pharmicutical companies being robbed at gunpoint to get ketamine en masse; just as we see with ephadrine.


From my knowledge of the main pharm companies who make ketamine, I dont believe they make psuedo as well, so they would probably be less guarded and more of an easy target. Can anyone clarify this?

Though this is a sad day for K-Fiends everywhere.
 
Originally posted by hoptis
Also, this rescheduling is only specific to NSW no? There are vets in other states of Australia.
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It is an Australia-wide rescheduling, not just NSW. Refer to Biscuit's post a couple of posts up.


Originally posted by Jimity
This just means that it will all be in a safe and people who knock over vets will just have to take the safe too, or wait until people are inside and force them to hand it over........We may even see pharmicutical companies being robbed at gunpoint to get ketamine en masse; just as we see with ephadrine.
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Taking a safe is not as easy as it sounds. Safes that are used for the storage of S8 medicines are required by law to be fixed to the building that the safe is kept in, i.e. bolted down into the floor/wall.

As for the robberies, I doubt that there would be many gangs of criminals who go out with the intention of risking a big jail term to snag a few vials of ketamine from a pharmacy or vet. I mean, we are talking about ketamine here, not the crown jewels.

And robbing pharmaceutical companies? That is unheard of to me, and I think it is unlikely that anyone would do it for ketamine, however I'm open to believing otherwise if I can get my eyes on some media reports or some data about the robbery of pharmaceutical factories in NSW.
 
This could however impact on people pressing ketamine into pills in atempt to make a cheaper substitute to try and pass off as MDMA, if its harder to get its usually more expensive...
 
Maybe that was the governments intentions? They were sick of their kids complaining to them about the purity of todays ecstasy, and so they're doing something about it. ;)
 
charlesbronson said:
And robbing pharmaceutical companies? That is unheard of to me, and I think it is unlikely that anyone would do it for ketamine, however I'm open to believing otherwise if I can get my eyes on some media reports or some data about the robbery of pharmaceutical factories in NSW.
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Though it isnt for Ketamine, here is an example of pharm company being raided. Just a week ago. It's happened a few times before that i can remember (in the past few years), though sifting through that many old newspaper articles is tiring.


As for safes. I know vets are required to lock ketamine in a safe bolted to the ground, but a friends who works at a vet showed me their safe (which she said housed S8 shit, I obviousily didn't see inside) one day while I was visiting, and it is just kept in a cupboard and could be lifted by one or two people. When I asked her about it, she assured me that most vets are like that if not worse, because they simply cannot afford better.

I'm not saying it would be easy, but plenty of vets get robbed, and I dont think it will decrease after May 1.
 
^^^ Hey Jimity cheers for the link, what an interesting read! I hadn't stumbled upon an article reporting a factory robbery so close to home before, and 50kg of pseudo is certainly no small change... crazy shit.

As for the Vet, the main problem with not bolting their safe into the building is not so much the fact that it is in contravention of regulations, but moreso that it makes that vet an easy target for robbery.

I wonder though if the vet is serious about not being able to afford bolting the safe....most safes come with pre-drilled holes in the base and with screws supplied, so it is not expensive to bolt them in (maybe you could volunteer to bolt the safe in for the vet....and, uhhh, clean out the dust while you're at it :D )
 
^^^Yeah, its quite possible that they are just lazy, or mayne they are knocking the shit off themselves.

Side note. I've got a safe I picked up a couple years ago and it doesnt have screw holes. It weighs a good 50kg, but there are no holes. Though I believe it is designed to be set in concrete, not bolted to the floor. Maybe they just didnt want to buy a new safe.
 
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