tackling the big issues.... should you be allowed to smack your kid???

now, not being a parent myself (well, havent had THAT knock at the door just yet.. ) i suppose my opinion isnt really that valid, but i thought i'd raise the issue anyway and get some thoughts...

these days, if a mum smacks her kid on the bottom / hand etc out in public, they seem to get a dirty look from everyone around them...

you hear from "new age" therapists etc that it is better to reason with kids and try to educate them what is right and wrong, rather than punish them..

instead of smacks, they suggest cuddles, talking and discussion...

so i ask, is this really the way forward?

i grew up in a fairly disciplined household, we got a smack if we did something wrong (we were never beaten or anything... the hardest thing we got hit with was the wooden spoon... and i broke three of them on my ass ) and i think it helps you learn.. you know that if you do something wrong, you get a smack..

when i started school, i had one year of corporal punishment before it was eradicated.. so, i copped the cane a couple of times for doing stuff wrong... i was only 5, but i sure learned never to do those things again..

so then this brings me to the whole "reasoning" issue.... kids really dont understand reason until they start to get older.. you can treat a kid like an adult as much as you like, but a lot of the time it simply goes over their heads... hell, i knew how to manipulate people as a kid.. so if someone tried reasoning with me, i'd tell them what i knew they wanted to hear, and would always walk off thinking i knew better, and not having learned anything at all...

so i suppose from this i am leaning myself towards the "its okay to smack a child" side of the argument...

but then the question is raised.... when does a smack turn into a beating???

thoughts??

The problem with smacking kids is that they begin to associate certain things with pain, so basically what you're doing is conditioning the kids. The other fundamental problem is the question of where you draw the line with this conditioning. If you believe that pain through associate conditioning is correct, then it would be easy enough to extend this philosphy to things other than discipline. If anyone here has read Huxley'sBrave New World , you'll remember that the children from a very young age are taught to hate and fear nature through pain association. Huxley obviously has an alternative agenda, but he raises the question of whether its right to condition children like this.

When I was a child my parents would threaten me with the wooden spoon and occasionly hit me (lightly) with it. It was always more of an empty threat than a reality, and it worked. I've never had a real problem with it and my parents rarely used it but I still think that it's treading on dangerous ground. As I said, its more the way of thinking that disturbs me than the action itself. Is discipline through pain association correct? If yes, then where d'you draw the line?I realise that I'm kinda sitting on the fence but not being a parent myself, I can't really make a decent judgement.

I don't think I agree with hitting of any child but there are two types of hitting of a child that I see.

1. A kid being a real hassle on purpose trying to piss of their parent, the parent has warned the kid over and over, in what seems a reasonable manner and then as the last straw grabs the kid on the arm and smacks the kid on the bum.

2. A kid does something wrong such as knock something over, while the mum seems already in a bad mood and then she snaps, and hits the kid so hard I know it would hurt me.

I know which one really pisses me off. I can't stand when a parent takes out their bad mood on a child and if I see a parent hitting thier child so hard it obviercely hurts the child, I'll usually go and say something to the parent.

In certain circumstances, I believe its ok (ie. fork in the powerpoint).

As long as you don't whack the kiddie over the head or shake him/her, I think you're right. I appreciate the occasional smacks I got now. I obviously didn't back then. Sorely resented them, even.

I definitely think it's okay to smack a child - within reason. Excessive force should never be used. I was smacked quite often as a child and even though it never really hurt [perhaps stung a little] it was the shock of being smacked that made me cry.

I also don't think it should be the first way a parent disciplines a child. Sometimes a firm word is enough to stop a child from misbehaving or even the threat of a smack - I really only think a child should be smacked when nothing else has worked.

I'm also pretty narrow-minded about where I think it's okay for a child to be smacked and with what. I only ever agree with smacking across the back of the legs or perhaps on the hand [if they were reaching for a hot cup of water or something] and only ever with an open hand. I don't think anything else such as wooden spoons, belts etc are acceptable.

I've seen parents in shopping centres smack their child 5, 6, 7 times in a row in the same spot and that's just wrong. As the first poster said, a parent should never use violence to let out their anger and frustration.

i grew up in a household where i was smacked and so were my brothers, and i broke a fair few wooden spoons on my bottom. i think its ok to smack if a kid is doing something wrong, the amount of undisciplined little shits that run rampant at my work and mothers saying "oh dear...oh honey dont do that" IT DOESNT WORK...well its convinced me that it doesnt work.

i think that kids need to be disciplined if they are doing something wrong and if you can do that without smacking thats great, but sometimes a good smack is all that gets through to a kid....especially if they are putting themselves in danger somehow. i know a lot of people will have an entirely different opinion, but thats just mine.

Come to think of it, we're all drug taking whores - did discipline work for us?

Political correct minefield this one.

I think empty threats only make your child think they can get away with more. So, if you threaten a smack, you must do a smack. My youngest will cry if I tell him "now, dear, you know I told you I'd smack you if you did that again, and now you've done it again. What do we have to do now?" The mortal humiliation he faces at telling me he has to be smacked is far worse than the pat on the bottom he gets from me.

I've once hit my child in anger though, and that was just awful.

And then there is the woman who got caught in the parking lot security camera in america just pummeling the shit out of her four year old in the back of the car. NOT acceptable.

And my parents never smacked me, they did the reasoning thing, and look, I'm just as much of a drug taking strumpet as the rest of ya!

i dont support any form of smacking or hitting.
hell, verbal abuse is even worse than that though IMO.
Kids are young, theyre sure to fuck up along the way, as aduslts and parents, i think the role is to guide your children in a direction to their liking that is of a decent moral standard. Not just socially acceptable standards but the honest truth. Lies hurt kids, now or later.

I always had a decent amount of freedom as a kid but if i fucked up on a day my old man was in shit mood id cop a beating.
me being slightly introverted, ive always stepped back from the scene when any form of a punishment is dealt out or violence etc and watch what goes on for everyone involved.
It dosnt make the situation any better for anyone.

In truth, i dont even like the idea of being punished. The aim should be to get the idea acros to the kid they fucked up and be sure that understand that, and to understand why they did.

i think it really pays more than anything to open and honest with children. They need to be given the chance to work things out for themselves with some guidance of course as theyre minds and thought patterns, beliefs and understandings still don't have much foundation.

^^
While I respect your point of view, I think too many people forget that it is also a parent's job to set boundaries. If you let them just 'bumble their way along' because kids will be kids, they don't learn boundaries ...

I got hit with a bamboo cane when I was a kid. It hurt like hell, and always made me cry

I hated it.

In saying that though, my parents made me who I am. I am proud of who am.

I don't think this was from the hitting though, I think it's more of listening to them and whilst being a teenager having freedom. Learning from my own mistakes and all that jazz.

I depise hitting in anyway a kid. I believe the use of words (not shouting unless necessary) is more powerful.

^^

I also think you should have to have kids or care for kids on a longterm basis before you can say anything about this.

I had a friend once who disdainfully told me she would never take her kids to Macca's when she saw mine arrive with Happy Meals making them blissfully happy for 10 minutes while I enjoyed a chat with her.

She now has one lucky happy meal'ed kid.

* skulking back around corner to be quiet and unopinionated *

So being hit as a child doesn't qualify you to have an opinion on hitting your own children when you get them since you know how it feels like?

I think it qualifies you to have an opinion, but I also think it does NOT qualify you to judge any parenting techniques until you've been in a situation where you had to test them.

strumpet said:

^^
While I respect your point of view, I think too many people forget that it is also a parent's job to set boundaries. If you let them just 'bumble their way along' because kids will be kids, they don't learn boundaries ...

Click to expand...

i fully understand parents need to set boudnaries.
i dont plan on letting my future children bumble their way through life at all.
they dont need to leant boundaries by being smacked either, theyre many other forms of communication.

strumpet said:

I think it qualifies you to have an opinion, but I also think it does NOT qualify you to judge any parenting techniques until you've been in a situation where you had to test them.

Click to expand...

I'm pretty sure I wasn't judging it in my post.

I also think you should have to have kids or care for kids on a longterm basis before you can say anything about this.

Click to expand...

And when you said that, I thought you implied I can't even state my own opinion on this matter.

While I don't want to trivialize kids being beaten up, its a little like a customer in a restaurant complaining about the order that you have cooked their meal in. Complaining about what instruments you have used in the kitchen. Or the wait-staff telling you how to run your kitchen. We've all eaten your food, and have the right to have an opinion. But you won't seriously consider their opinion one of much weight until they've been there themselves.

That's all I will say on this.

i can't actually remember any incidences of being hit as a child, but i certainly do remember the threat many many times. i guess from that i must have been hit once or twice to know to be scared of it. but yeah, the threat was more than enough for me (though i was a bit of a priss back then)

in theory i'm against hitting your child. but i recently had a conversation with my cousin's wife who is currently a fulltime mother to their two kids aged 3 and 5, and asked her what means she uses to keep them in line. my example was if they were out shopping and one was whinging/ pestering/ crying and set the other off as well.

she told me that for her pretty much anything goes, try to ignore them, pleading, bribes, threats (eg i'll tell daddy), and if none of them work she will hit them- whether she's in public or not. but like other posters have said, open hand only and just on the leg or the bum.

she says if you have to resort to it in public you do often get dirty looks from people but she doesnt bother her, she knows she doesnt go overboard, and a lot of people just dont understand how trying it can be when you can't get them to behave.

To strumpet..

I can't see how you can compare this with the meal/chef thing.

Mind you, I'm an apprentice chef and been there a few times.

And one question, do you know how it feels to be hit with a thin bamboo cane that leaves you with red marks for weeks?

OK -
I'll go back on my word and say one thing more.

I've never said in this thread that it is ok to beat a child. A thin bamboo cane is beating.

I've said it is ok to smack a child.