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  • AADD Moderators: swilow | Vagabond696

Regular ecstacy use linked with mem..er..memory...something

tranquilo

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Joined
Apr 1, 2000
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Looks like its being quantitively being proved so go easy on your brains people, memories are precious....er...precious, er, things, y'know...
from the British Psychological Society as reported in The Guardian
Regular users of the drug ecstasy are inflicting so much damage to their memory they frequently forget simple tasks and routinely lose their train of thought while talking, according to UK research.
People who use the recreational drug regularly suffer significant impairment to all aspects of their everyday memory, finds the research, which will add to concerns over the worrying side effects of ecstasy. The drug is reported to be used by between 200,000 and 500,000 people in Britain, each weekend.
The research is among few studies of this subject, but previous work has revealed the detrimental effects the drug has on recall and working memory. This is the first time a danger to "prospective memory" - the planning centre of the brain which keeps most people's lives in order - has been revealed.
A team of psychologists, led by Tom Heffernan of the University of Northumbria, looked at how ecstasy use affected the memories of clubbers in the north-east. They found that people who took ecstasy regularly, between eight and 10 times a month, had significant memory problems; they would forget such things as setting their alarm clocks, and they had difficulty with long-term episodic memory, forgetting to pass on messages.
The drug users also had problems with internally "queued memory", failing to remember what they were saying half way through a sentence. "The research adds to the growing body of evidence which suggests there are psychological dangers associated with taking ecstasy. For example, people have found it can contribute to depression, that it can make users more irritable, and this study suggests it can impair your everyday memory," said Dr Heffernan.
The research, made public at the British Psychological Society's centenary conference in Glasgow yesterday, was carried out by comparing the memories of 40 adults, aged 23 on average, who took ecstasy regularly. Thirty-nine others were included who did not take the drug. Allowances were made for the tendency of ecstasy users to use more than one drug. The results were replicated in a second study by one of Dr Heffernan's students.
Dr Heffernan is not sure why ecstasy impairs the memory of regular users, but research in associated areas points to a biological explanation.
It is feared that regular use may cause damage to the frontal and pre-frontal cortex of the brain, which are used in planning and strategy.
If the explanation lies in biology, Dr Heffernan said, it could have particularly worrying consequences for young ecstasy users.
"There is some evidence that the frontal cortex is still developing in teenagers and adolescents," he said. "If your brain is still developing in parts, there is a strong possibility you could be seriously damaging this development with ecstasy use."
The researchers plan to expand their study to see if the damage to memory is permanent or whether the brain can be rehabilitated.
British Psychological Society centenary annual conference
 
man, that's all i need. i was already absent minded enough as it was. oh well, ying and yang. for every good there is a bad. if you're prepared to put up with the bad, then enjoy the good. now, where was i?
 
I agree to be honest, memory seems to me to be a bigger side effect than depression.
The effect on a young persons brain is certainly worrying and another thing i agree with. I have seen 15-16 yr old work colleagues memory/level of basic mental ability, go to shit in only the 2-3 months they have been taking MDXX. Prob average 1 a fortnight.
I do my best to deter there practices but u can only do so much.
But i wish the studies werent so extreme.
Why not study people who take at most 150mg MDMA every 2 weeks. That still is at the high end of the scale imo; i mean 10 a month is ridiculous, and those people are only destined to be fucked up in the years to come.
There is no question MDMA is one of THE MOST damaging drugs around; its all a question of relative degree (e.g on average a pill a month vs 2-3 alcoholic drinks 5 nights/week, or speed once a week etc), and for that they must set realistic amounts for the average user.
 
Back here again? Well bugger me.
After regular exposure to vast episodes of debauchery I have noticed two things in relation to memory loss: a constant [shall we say] numbness at the top of my head and, I guess related to that, a complete lack of enthusiasm in patching in to memories, some of which I'm sure, pre e, would have been well worth remembering.
I liken it to watching my Grandmother's descent into altzeimers [sic] disease: the memories are there but you just can't be bothered patching in to the suckers.
Anyone else experience this laziness?
 
Back here again? Well bugger me.
After regular exposure to vast episodes of debauchery I have noticed two things in relation to memory loss: a constant [shall we say] numbness at the top of my head and, I guess related to that, a complete lack of enthusiasm in patching in to memories, some of which I'm sure, pre e, would have been well worth remembering.
I liken it to watching my Grandmother's descent into altzeimers [sic] disease: the memories are there but you just can't be bothered patching in to the suckers.
Anyone else experience this laziness?
To push the old person's envelope; I spend a lot of time remembering very old ... memories. Then again, I'm an old bastard
 
As someone that has taken a shit load of pills over time, I can honestly say that my brain is fucked.
Do I regret this? Yes. But at least I have all the wonderful memori... oh hang on, no I don't.
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Is Don, Is Good
 
Well, like most things, moderation is the key. It's not *hardcore* to go out for 3 day benders, it's *stupid* and it fucks your brain probably ten times harder than if you had just gone out 3 separate nights with sleep in between. And whoever said that the studies should set more realistic goals is definitely right, the avg pill has probably 70-90mg MDMA (on an optimistic scale) so for most people who do between 2 and 3 pills a night, once a fortnight, that's say .. an avg of 180mg MDMA every 2 weeks. Personally, I don't get concerned when a new study tells me some drug fucked loser in the US, who eats 20 pills a month, is starting to lose his childhood memory & cognitive thought functions. Well, duh.
So where does this lead us. Well, I'm in the middle of a month's break, after going out every weekend this year so far. I started to notice that some things just didn't motivate me at all (going to the gym for starters).. memory functions were getting pretty shabby, and I'd somehow lost some of my ability to focus and concentrate on even simple things like a phonecall or conversation with someone I haven't spoken to in a while (how tricky is it to get out of an awkward pause when you're a bit scattered huh!!!) That, and after starting a new job I just wasn't satisfied and wasn't willing to stick it out for a few months, whereas previously, before drugs, I'd have persevered and given it 100%.
Anyway this is my 3rd weekend off (starting my 4th week straight) and I can honestly say I feel smarter, straighter and a lot better for it. So probably the majority of the ill-effects we experience are temporary, although there's some that'll be longer term, perhaps permanent. I'm referring here to the odd lapse of thought, inability to recall certain dates or events etc.
 
It would certaintly be interesting to see the tests that where used and the recipients for that matter. You can produce a result you want by performing tests in a particular way or using particular testee(s) *well you know what I mean*
One thing I thought of while reading it is that there is less concern for social "rightness" with people who rave .. and more concern for enjoying life. Perhaps there is an eliment of "care factor" which is not taken into consideration.
The non drug takers may have been chosen for their anal retentiveness ....
all happy thoughts for a sunday morning
 
Hey biscuit what do you mean when you say there is no doubt that MDMA is one of the most damaging drugs around? Where did you get that info from? Just curious.
Indeed they need to make this study comparative to other drugs. Also I'd be curious to find out what representation of the population they used for their control and subjects, i.e. job situation, family status, etc. It is very easy to twist statistics to show whatever you want, but I think we all know that. Remember 37% of all statistics are made up
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Luko, I certainly agree with you!
I've had (without even realising it, thanks work) a months break, and i was noticing that ,yes , my brain is appearing to function better, my memory is VERY good (as opposed to , say 4 months ago) and all is going well- eating lots, weight going ok,etc...The this friday just gone, i went out and popped 2, cos , wwell, it'd been a while, and it was time for a nice night out
wink.gif

But ,even tho i totally enjoyed my night, it was the morning after which literally made me shudder.. waking up, knowing i had to be at work in the afternoon, and trying to get my thoughts together was quite a task.. i mean, having to stop , and fully aaask my self things like, ok, now , am i wearing my belt? - seriously, i asked myself this out loud whe i was leaving the house! Had to make sure i had my keys for work...Not good!
And just basic things that would otherwise seem like subconcious decsions, suddenly became a test of memory power!
As for BIscuit's comment about E being a damagind drug, i oculdn't agree more...I'm not going to quote any science books, i'm saying this from personal experience- ok i haven't tried that many drugs, but as opposed to alcohol,pot,lsd and speed, MDMA is certainly the one that i've noticed does the most brain fucking...
So the moral of the story kiddies is take care, and
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fly high , but watch your head
 
Luko, I agree whole-heartedly.
I think that taking time-out from drugs and "the scene" is very important. I'm currently on one such hiatus which co-incides with the start of uni for the year and I have to say that Mondays and Tuesdays are so much easier when one isn't so busy pulling one's head out of one's arse!
I've noticed that as semester has gone on I have found it easier to keep up in class and have been better in tutes.
Having said this, I can't wait for Easter break to get really wasted before the *big* lay-off leading up to exams.
...he who dares my son, he who dares!...
 
I think if u read any of the studies the evidence is there.
I am not going claim i know even a percentile of whats required, but i think if any substance builds up EXTREME tolerance after one dose its gotta be doing something bad up there.
And try going on an MDMA bender over 2-3 days and see how u feel; prob feel as about intelligent as the family dog and physically turned inside out.
As i said, it may well be that 150mg a month isnt damaging at all; or it may be higher than that; its just that most pharmacologists will agree there is clear evidence of some damage at SOME dose, whereas i dont think its as clear cut with other drugs. Again, its establishing this figure of how much, how often, thats the crucial part.
Another thing to keep in mind is the repsonse from MDMA is completely unnatural to the body, one of the reasons y serotonin is replenished so slowly; we are not designed to have to do it.
Whereas speed is more of an extension of a normal body process, the fight or flight response; just enhanced and prolonged.
And hence dopamine and adrenaline is virtually made around the clock.
(Please note this is just my opinion from what i have read/studied; anyone with superior knowledge feel free to have a go!)
 
I feel personally that there most likely is, for most people anyway, not all, a safe degree of recreational drug use, as there is a safe degree of alcohol consumption.
There's no doubt in my mind that mdma (and certainly other rec drugs) has the potential to be dangerous, even fatal but hell, alcohol kills 1000s of people *shrugs*, its all about being safe, as has been said previously
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Moderation moderation moderation, this includes chocolate, of which I have been consuming in copious amounts this w/e
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I think what must be remembered here is that this research was carried out by PSYCHOLOGISTS. Psychology is the study of behaviour. From this, inferences can be drawn as to the brains function. I do not want to devalue psychology as a profession (im' a student myself) but this research does not look at any PHYSIOLOGICAL effects or changes that MDMA has/has not caused.
This is not neuroscience or neuropharmacology we are talking about here. The subjects doses were so high that behavioural changes were evident. I would think the researches would struggle to find such changes in induviduals using MDMA on a more sensible basis (given that "sensible" is a relative term, for me it is once a month max). Also, given that they measured behaviour, they cannot guage what real effects that MDMA is actually having on the brain. The memory problems could be temporary or permanent or even the result of just some residual drug traces within the system. Notice they never said that they knew WHY ecstacy caused the memory impairment... They don't know.
Until some actual physiological research comes to light providing conclusive evidence saying how and why MDMA use and its relative dosages cause damage, I reserve my opinion. I know MDMA is not a "safe" drug, but I could say the same about some strong antibiotics or alcohol.
Just be careful and very sensible. Treat it with the respect you would give to a strong unregulated chemical. Don't get cozy with E... Its not your pal. You are in charge of it...
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The woods are dark and deep, and you have miles to go before you sleep...
 
Firstly there is a discipline within Pshycology that deals with the brain itself and behaviour and has a big physiological component.
But to my point, I want more research done so that I can make a proper risk assessment. For instances I know that smoking is causing my lungs damage and if I don't stop there is a very high chance that I could contract lung or throat cancer. Another I know not to drink to much and drive etc. These are two examples where proper research has meant that I can use these two other substances in a safer manner.
If Little Johnny wants to save our children he should spend money on proper research and then give proper unbiased education. Of course if he made it legal I would probably vote for him until the day I/he dies whichever came first.
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Vote for the Party, Party, Party at the next election
 
one thing i havent seen mentioned (because i havent seen the original research paper) is whether the mdma users had abstained from mdma at the time of the testing, or if they were current users.
we know our noodles are mashed for a while after use. what we are *really* interested in is our long term prospects!
the chemical imbalance caused by mdma, the downgrading of serotonin receptors and lower amts of serotonin produced etc are all tied in with depression, anxiety, sleep disturbances, and also memory and concentration problems.
i know from when i was in my deepest depressions (i'm bipolar) i would have a very hard time reading a whole sentence. by the time i got to the end, i'd forgotten the beginning. my verbal skills were bad. i was vague and probably would have performed terribly on any kind of memory or cognitive test. these are some of the symptoms of depression. anxiety states can also interupt your ability to think clearly or concentrate.
anyways, this is stuff most of us know, for a lot of us first hand. but the thing is my depressions lift. after abstinance, our thinking clears. i would be really interested in seeing well constructed research using ex-mdma users. not those who used to do truckloads and quit 2 months ago, knowing they had to do a study.. but people who say, were involved in the scene of the late 80s but grew out of it really quickly and havent touched the stuff in years n years.
anyone know of anything like that? i've seen one or two ex-user studies on MAPS and the like, but they were usually not absinant for a decent period of time.
=)
 
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